Jamo

iTrader: (23)

from the vaccine.

it does state on the information you get before deciding to get it or not that it may give you flu like syptoms for a couple of days, luckily it was only one day for me. made me feel very lathargic and I had a high temp for a few hours.

the day after I felt ok, its been a week now and my arm is still sore.

j

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Not clear decision for us then
We live in France (in the country) and to fair have never even had a common cold in 3 years.
Daughter is 7 months old and she has never even has a sniff of anything before but maybe that puts her more at risk if she did catch it

john banks

I've had some tremendous working relationships with some pharmacists where professional roles are mutually respsected. But what you describe sounds like professional parochialism/insecurity to me. If you want to go down that line, why are the entrance requirements to pharmacy lower, why is the training shorter, and why can doctors dispense any medication they can also prescribe with no further training when pharmacists can prescribe only a limited selection after a training course and only since 2006? It is a futile argument, and professional relationships (and best patient care) are served without these ridiculous, second hand, probably misquoted slurs on doctors you're making. Why don't we stick to evidence rather than opinion in a thread like this?

You don't have to look very hard, and it seems you haven't before rejecting it, the side effects are hardly a surprise to anyone that has experience and knowledge with vaccination.

European Medicines Agencies: "The most common side effects with Pandemrix (seen with more than 1 in 10 doses of the vaccine) are headache, arthralgia (joint pain), myalgia (muscle pain), reactions at the site of the injection (hardening, swelling, pain and redness), fever and fatigue (tiredness)."

Shock horror, c.100% antibody response in studies of all groups but the elderly gives a sore arm and a few aches. I had them myself. When I had H1N1 coughed all over me three weeks later and remained well I was glad I did.

rbaz, you won't get an informed choice from reading most of the posts in this thread, please don't try and make one on that basis.

Read WHO, CDC, HPA and websites that present evidence rather than hysteria. Watch podcasts by virologists, learn about immunology and the history of vaccination before thinking you've been fed enough hysteria to reject professional opinion. Or if you don't have the time or skill to do that (most don't), suggest follow the advice of a doctor who has gone through that training and licensing to practice medicine, which someone without that cannot do.

Mistrust professionals by all means, but please do it on an intelligent and informed basis. Ask them questions to help inform your choice, but suggest don't reject because of internet/press hysteria.

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Thanks John I wasn't going to make any decision based on what I read from a public forum and to be honest we have all but decided to go have it done anyway. We are seeing our doctor on Monday afternoon so will see what he has to say.
Its just in the back of your mind are we doing the right thing.
I wanted to hear other peoples views on it I knew a lot of people would be against it as there always are with this sort of thing.

Xx-IAN-xX

FIFTH "SWINE FLU" VACCINE DEATH IN SWEDEN - VACCINATIONS STILL GO AHEAD AS PLANNED!



Ill take my chances with the swine flu rather than trust some syringe happy Quack thanks

john banks

That is your choice, but if that link is the quality of information on which you base your decisions, it makes me wonder what your own scientific background is?

Xx-IAN-xX

As i said my decision is based on what i have been told by a pharmacist friend .

john banks

No professional I have had contact with that has the ability to critically appraise scientific literature and has done so regarding swine flu vaccination remains opposed. That suggests your pharmacist friend is either misinformed, lacks literature appraisal skills, hasn't looked into this properly or is a minority maverick. Perhaps they should also consider whether their professional indemnity insurance covers them for negligent advice in such cases.

Xx-IAN-xX

As i said thec pharmacist in question is a friend i trust him more than scoobynets resident quacks . you have your opinion ,ill stick with the advice i have been given ,by the way this didn't just come from 1 pharmacist

john banks

I would trust the evidence rather than the opinion of a well meaning misguided friend.

Xx-IAN-xX

if the vacine hasn't been properly tested i expect the evidence won't come to light until around the next 4-8 months .

john banks

Have you read the studies/testing already done on it? Somehow I doubt it...

Xx-IAN-xX

Why do you believe everything you read , the proof is in the pudding , you can have my share

john banks

My gold standard is peer reviewed randomised controlled trials with ethical approval and conflicts of interest declared, to standards to satisfy regulatory bodies, with less confidence placed where this has not been done when it could have been done. Certainly not everything I read, and certainly not trashy websites!

Xx-IAN-xX

Potential Allergen In H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine May Put Children At Risk-Only Phadia Reveals Both Presence And Severity Of The Allergy

US view of swine flu vaccine | Health | PRI's The World

UK health care professionals shun swine flu vaccine; government increases pressure

Bill Maher vs. the Flu Vaccine - Well Blog - NYTimes.com

MINA Breaking News - UK Health Agency to Neurologists: Swine Flu Vaccine is a Nerve Disease

Swine flu vaccine linked to deadly nerve disease?

Ok so why should i listen to you and not the above

john banks

The first link is for a company offering to test for egg allergy. Bias?

The second link supports my view not yours.

The third link from your favourite alarmist website quotes quite sensible advice to encourage uptake amongst healthcare professionals. If I had not looked into this I would probably be in the reluctant group, but there has been no pressure applied.

The fourth link demonstrates how people in the media are misinformed about subunit vaccines.

The last two links cites a leaked letter which is not linked, but it is eminently reasonable to have enhanced vigilance and reporting of GBS during large vaccination programmes because of the previous possible links, but als the disease itself. People are in hospital now with GBS due to swine flu rather than the vaccination.

I will offer one link re GBS and swine flu vaccination. CDC H1N1 Flu | General Questions and Answers on Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) It states an extra 1 in 100000 cases of GBS in 1976, not found in later studies, with only two studies showing an extra 1 in 1000000 cases of GBS. Put in context to the 1 in 1000 of my patients being hospitalised with swine flu so far in an area where the levels are not epidemic, I'd take the shot (and did).

Your links were surprisingly easy to see the flaws in, but then this is daily bread and butter for me properly addressing peoples' objections, although I'm wasting my time if it might not influence you or anyone reading to follow evidence rather than alarmism.

john banks

Arch Intern Med -- Abstract: No Association Between Immunization and Guillain-Barre Syndrome in the United Kingdom, 1992 to 2000, June 26, 2006, Hughes et al. 166 (12): 1301

This abstract shows how proper research is conducted and reported. Contrast with the tripe most people are talking about vaccination safety.

There are some interesting articles that cite this study, http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/sep09_1/b3577 is particularly interesting with many other links that give interesting reading if you want to get into this to a more sophisticated level.

Xx-IAN-xX

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com Baxter To Develop Swine Flu Vaccine Despite Bird Flu Scandal

Dangers In The Shots - Components Of H1N1 Vaccines

Another Shocking Warning About Swine Flu Vaccine

What's the Danger of Swine Flu Vaccinations?

Potential dangers of H1N1 or Swine flu Vaccine | Uriah A. Gunn
bet your glad you didn't vacinate her Dr

foodconsumer.org - Swine Flu Alert -- Shocking Vaccine Miscarriage Horror Stories

john banks

I'm sorry, I've not got the time to go through another set of hysterical links, your first set were disappointing enough.

Xx-IAN-xX

I hope your endorsement of the vacine doesn't come back to bite you

john banks

I expect of myself, and my patients expect of me to make the best decisions and give the best advice based on the available evidence. That decision is clear cut and I have the full support of my indemnity policy in following the UK guidelines. I'd be much more worried about my position if I took the opposite view. When I looked at the evidence I was actually a little surprised at my initial ill-informed cynicism, superficially it is quite enthralling, but events have moved on and I have been swayed by personal clinical exposure to cases and complications. I would prefer that I had only been swayed by the evidence from day one.

I returned from holiday once the vaccine was available and recommended for pregnant women, being away on holiday I had not kept up with the latest info. I gave patients the information I knew at the time, but soon updated myself and ended up ringing a few people back to give clearer guidance. I didn't do that just to stop myself getting sued if they got swine flu and I hadn't given them clear guidance to be vaccinated at any stage of pregnancy, I did it because the evidence I read supported it.

Xx-IAN-xX

Good on you , although it would depend on where you get your information from


http://www.pandemicfluonline.com/?p=385

Tam the bam

Swine flu is still IMHO a scare mongering tool used by the lying *******s we have in power atm! No evidence or whatever will change my mind and allow my kids to have this untested poison put in their system! And it is a poison. My other half is a nurse who's currently treating kids for swine flu who HAVE had the vaccine!

Tam the bam

Says it all really!

john banks

Summary Product Characteristics: "The use of Pandemrix may be considered during pregnancy if this is thought to be necessary, taking into account official recommendations."

Adverse reactions can be reported for any medication, but particularly for anything new, or that would benefit from good monitoring. I've not made any adverse reaction reports so far, but undoubtedly some of our patients and staff have had predictable side effects that are known. These are not reported, an adverse reaction is a more serious event. You don't have to link it to the vaccine, even if there was a temporal link you could report and give details for later more detailed investigation if necessary. Good data collection from this pandemic will help future management and understanding.

john banks

Tam, your graphic does not tell it all. Few or none of these other causes has the potential to grow exponentially. The 1918 pandemic claimed between 20 and 40 million lives. Secondary bacterial pneumonia may be reduced with antibiotics these days, but that is another minefield of multidrug resistance, anaphylaxis and C.diff.

Vaccination and sanitation have saved more lives than any of the far more dramatic things modern medicine has achieved. We underestimate the good old infection at our peril.

Tam the bam

What pandemic?? We haven't had a pandemic in this country since the plague or perhaps TB when it was rife, Swine flu is nothing in comparison, it's just a flu ffs!

john banks

You clearly haven't studied epidemiology.