Oh no, not again - dog attacks and kills child
30 November 2009, 03:06 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stroke it baby!
Posts: 33,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not cat bashing or anything just agreeing with others that animals (with the ability to inflict harm or death) and young children should not be left unattended.
30 November 2009, 03:32 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well i have a german shepard which i got when my daughter was born purposely so the could grow up together and be used to each other then my son came along also grew up with the dog
None of the kids bother with it much now and the dog keeps itself to its self, but i wouldn't hessitate to leave the kids and dog alone in the same room as i am supremly confident the the dog would be in the biggest danger from the kids.
I agree with what many of you have said though clearly the owners fault and as stated probably going to be some scruffy pikey types. The same sort of people who hate the 'Bizzies' as i believe they are known in that area, but are the first to call them whem they have a problem. If that is the case then absaloutly no sympathy for the family.
None of the kids bother with it much now and the dog keeps itself to its self, but i wouldn't hessitate to leave the kids and dog alone in the same room as i am supremly confident the the dog would be in the biggest danger from the kids.
I agree with what many of you have said though clearly the owners fault and as stated probably going to be some scruffy pikey types. The same sort of people who hate the 'Bizzies' as i believe they are known in that area, but are the first to call them whem they have a problem. If that is the case then absaloutly no sympathy for the family.
30 November 2009, 03:39 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Now obviously we don’t know what breed this dog was, so let’s not leap to any conclusion about this particular case.
On the broader point though, the thing I’ve never been able to understand is WHY anyone would want one of these animals in their house? Given the hundreds of breeds of dogs out there, what is it about PitBulls, Staffys, Rotts etc, that makes people want to get one? What is the decision making process that you go through when buying a dog that results in getting something with such potential?
On the broader point though, the thing I’ve never been able to understand is WHY anyone would want one of these animals in their house? Given the hundreds of breeds of dogs out there, what is it about PitBulls, Staffys, Rotts etc, that makes people want to get one? What is the decision making process that you go through when buying a dog that results in getting something with such potential?
Staffys & Rotties make fantastic pets. Not classified as dangerous dogs.
Lets not go down the stereotyping certain breeds again Martin.
Give the chav scum labradors, and expect to see the odd bad one.
30 November 2009, 03:48 PM
#34
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why am I not surprised there's a large voice on SN that seems to want to defend a nutty dog instead of just reflecting on the death of an innocent child.
Specialist dogs should only be owned by specialist owners. Assuming this dog is of that ilk.... I'm willing to bet it is.
Specialist dogs should only be owned by specialist owners. Assuming this dog is of that ilk.... I'm willing to bet it is.
30 November 2009, 03:54 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Why am I not surprised there's a large voice on SN that seems to want to defend a nutty dog instead of just reflecting on the death of an innocent child.
Specialist dogs should only be owned by specialist owners. Assuming this dog is of that ilk.... I'm willing to bet it is.
Specialist dogs should only be owned by specialist owners. Assuming this dog is of that ilk.... I'm willing to bet it is.
30 November 2009, 04:49 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stroke it baby!
Posts: 33,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well i have a german shepard which i got when my daughter was born purposely so the could grow up together and be used to each other then my son came along also grew up with the dog
None of the kids bother with it much now and the dog keeps itself to its self, but i wouldn't hessitate to leave the kids and dog alone in the same room as i am supremly confident the the dog would be in the biggest danger from the kids.
I agree with what many of you have said though clearly the owners fault and as stated probably going to be some scruffy pikey types. The same sort of people who hate the 'Bizzies' as i believe they are known in that area, but are the first to call them whem they have a problem. If that is the case then absaloutly no sympathy for the family.
None of the kids bother with it much now and the dog keeps itself to its self, but i wouldn't hessitate to leave the kids and dog alone in the same room as i am supremly confident the the dog would be in the biggest danger from the kids.
I agree with what many of you have said though clearly the owners fault and as stated probably going to be some scruffy pikey types. The same sort of people who hate the 'Bizzies' as i believe they are known in that area, but are the first to call them whem they have a problem. If that is the case then absaloutly no sympathy for the family.
What if you'd been wrong, just once?
30 November 2009, 04:54 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: liverpool
Posts: 2,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The U.K kennel club states that Grey Hounds and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are the best dogs for being raised with young children.
Given the hundred of different car manufacturers out there, what is it about imprezas, evos, m3s etc that make people want to get one? What is the decision process that you go through when buying a car that results in getting something with such potential?
All depends on whose hands it in really doesnt it.
Just because a wave of irresponsible chavs have taken a liking to something doesnt mean all owners have to be tarred with the same brush.
Given the hundred of different car manufacturers out there, what is it about imprezas, evos, m3s etc that make people want to get one? What is the decision process that you go through when buying a car that results in getting something with such potential?
All depends on whose hands it in really doesnt it.
Just because a wave of irresponsible chavs have taken a liking to something doesnt mean all owners have to be tarred with the same brush.
japanese tosa
dogo argentino
fila braziliero
the act also covers dogs that have phsical characteristics of these breeds, or partly bred from them.
in theory though you CAN keep an animal belonging to these breeds, but you have to carry a certificate of exemption and comply by many restrictions. the dog MUST be muzzled in a public place, and controlled by no-one younger than 16. it must also be micro-chipped, tattoed on the inner thigh, neutered or spayed, and covered by 3rd party insurance. failure to comply can lead to a £2000 fine and a jail sentence.
Also the dangerous dogs act applies to ALL dogs- TOTALLY DIFFRENT FROM BANNED DOGS. if you as an owner are failing to be in control of your animal and it has attacked another dog or a person then that dog can be put down and the irresponsible owner made accountable for its actions. so this applies to your fluffy adorable poodles, pugs etc. etc. no dog is exempt!! to finish- does anybody know that there was once a time when the German Shepherd/ Alsation was classed as a dangerous dog? rovermb6 WAS right when he says it depends whos hands the dog is in that matters.
30 November 2009, 05:07 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Muppetising life
Posts: 15,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now being reported that it was a Bulldog. So no surprise then.... 
I'm sick of the old argument where someone comes along and says they have kept one of these dogs for years without any issues at all. It only takes one issue once, and there is a big problem.
A bit like the lion tamer who says his pet circus lion is all nice and docile. Well, he would say that, as the day it turns out not to be he is no longer alive to pass any opinion at all.
I'm sick of the old argument where someone comes along and says they have kept one of these dogs for years without any issues at all. It only takes one issue once, and there is a big problem.
A bit like the lion tamer who says his pet circus lion is all nice and docile. Well, he would say that, as the day it turns out not to be he is no longer alive to pass any opinion at all.
30 November 2009, 05:09 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would you want a Staff or Rottie? what's the logic, I honestly don't get it?
30 November 2009, 05:26 PM
#41
I'm trying to think when was the last time I saw a rottweiler with a "normal" owner
i.e not some thug type shifty looking person
Actually with regards to history, I was googling the spelling of the rittweiler and this was on of the links.
Google Image Result for http://www.virginmedia.com/images/rottweiler-431x300.jpg
30 November 2009, 06:23 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: "In a distant land,far far away!"
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Just watching the news and apparently there was a complaint to the Police regarding this family breeding dangerous dogs and they have now admitted not taking sufficient action.Sounded like the family had a ticking time bomb in their house.You do reap what you sow...
Although the facts arent out yet,I agree with the earlier comment regards what was a 4 year old doing up,near to midnight?
In the past,i did think, what is the purpose of having some of these types of dogs.History dictates that they exist and have now been bred for a purpose and that they shouldn't exist in modern "civilised" society.
However,i have been to plenty of responsible households who have these dogs-from proper breeders and they interact well with the family,so i have changed my opinion a lot.
I even thought about buying a blue staffy or a english bull terrier when my vizsla passes on.
I think the answer is breeding.Lots of the scummy owners on small estates,breed dogs in small circles,They communicate via the internet and the net result is a lot of in-breeding,which leads to dangerous dogs.
I dont think the problem will be solved any time soon.
Although the facts arent out yet,I agree with the earlier comment regards what was a 4 year old doing up,near to midnight?
In the past,i did think, what is the purpose of having some of these types of dogs.History dictates that they exist and have now been bred for a purpose and that they shouldn't exist in modern "civilised" society.
However,i have been to plenty of responsible households who have these dogs-from proper breeders and they interact well with the family,so i have changed my opinion a lot.
I even thought about buying a blue staffy or a english bull terrier when my vizsla passes on.
I think the answer is breeding.Lots of the scummy owners on small estates,breed dogs in small circles,They communicate via the internet and the net result is a lot of in-breeding,which leads to dangerous dogs.
I dont think the problem will be solved any time soon.
30 November 2009, 06:41 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We had a Rottweiler in the late 80's early 90's and it was a fantastic dog.
Never stepped out of line once so was no different to owning any other type of dog. Unfortunately poor excuses of owners have ruined them and the price of the dog these days reflects that.
It was reported in the news last week how young idiots are using dogs as social status symbols, organising dog fights to settle fued's etc....thats why decent pedigree dogs are dragged down to the pikey levels of their owners.
I don't get the logic in owning one of those fashionable rats people carry round, but thats personal choice for you.
Never stepped out of line once so was no different to owning any other type of dog. Unfortunately poor excuses of owners have ruined them and the price of the dog these days reflects that.
It was reported in the news last week how young idiots are using dogs as social status symbols, organising dog fights to settle fued's etc....thats why decent pedigree dogs are dragged down to the pikey levels of their owners.
I don't get the logic in owning one of those fashionable rats people carry round, but thats personal choice for you.
30 November 2009, 06:54 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have 10 dogs all of which work with me every day I also have 3 children.My dogs live in kennels, there is no way i would allow my dogs in the house or be left alone with the kids ever.
I trust my dogs but not with my kids I can replace the dog i cant replace my kids
I trust my dogs but not with my kids I can replace the dog i cant replace my kids
30 November 2009, 07:18 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
30 November 2009, 07:24 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Weston Super Mare, Somerset.
Posts: 14,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have had a variety of dogs over many years but not at the allegedly tough end of the scale i.e. the powerful type.
They were all reasonably trained but not what I would call super trained which I admire but is not common. For example I stood to get a nip if I took a favourite belonging or plate of food away.
All have been terrific with kids but we always kept a wary eye.
I see in Liverpool that granny was dog and baby sitting and I suspect that she may not have a clue about dog behaviour. A 4-year old provoking a powerful semi-trained dog is asking for trouble IMHO.
And, of course, in rare instances, a dog can have a fit or sudden mental problem which would send him off the rails.
Why don't police keep a dog net in back of car and sling over angry dog and sling him in back of a van? Or is that easier said than done perhaps.
It all comes down to a bit of common sense but that is in short supply these days.
Poor little kid.
dl
They were all reasonably trained but not what I would call super trained which I admire but is not common. For example I stood to get a nip if I took a favourite belonging or plate of food away.
All have been terrific with kids but we always kept a wary eye.
I see in Liverpool that granny was dog and baby sitting and I suspect that she may not have a clue about dog behaviour. A 4-year old provoking a powerful semi-trained dog is asking for trouble IMHO.
And, of course, in rare instances, a dog can have a fit or sudden mental problem which would send him off the rails.
Why don't police keep a dog net in back of car and sling over angry dog and sling him in back of a van? Or is that easier said than done perhaps.
It all comes down to a bit of common sense but that is in short supply these days.
Poor little kid.
dl
30 November 2009, 07:33 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: northants
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as said before any dog can be dangerous if it has been trained to think to attack, me personally 3 kids 14, 10 & 3 + 1 EIGHT YEAR OLD STAFFORDSHIRE bull terrior never had any incidents,guess im just lucky?
30 November 2009, 07:43 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No luck at all mate, you have simply brought your dog up properly and not dragged it up like the usless good for nothings seem to do.
30 November 2009, 07:43 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a dog and child owner the most worrying thing on here are at least two dog owners who talk about 'nips' as if that is an acceptable thing.
One refers to 'playful nips'. There is no such thing as a playful nip with a dog. The only reason a dog nips is to try and establish dominance. And if the dog gets away with it you are screwed as the dog thinks it is superior to you.
As for being 'nipped' for taking away a favourite belonging or plate of food, frankly that is shocking. If you allow a dog to nip you in these circumstances then there is no doubt the dog will see itself as the leader of the pack.
No matter what the breed - dogs that demonstrate these behaviours are dangerous. Even if they may not be big enough to kill, they are dangerous.
There are very simple behaviours an owner can demonstrate to reverse this - and it is about simple application.
One very simple trick is that a dog cannot eat until you give it a command - no matter what food is offered - and a dog should never eat before you do. Always feed a dog away from your mealtimes, or after you have eaten.
I am by far not a perfect dog trainer, nor have a perfectly trained dog, but he does know who's boss and for example if we put his food down he will sit and wait for a command no matter how long. Once I forgot to say 'eat' and came back half an hour later and the dog (he gave up sitting) was lying next to his bowl in a huge pool of dribble as he waited.
Get any dog training manual and there are three or four things that if done consistently will get a dog properly established below you in the hierarchy.
My (small) kids do play with the dog all the time and they are very good together. We don't deliberately leave them together but it is not front of mind for us not to either in the house or in the garden.
One refers to 'playful nips'. There is no such thing as a playful nip with a dog. The only reason a dog nips is to try and establish dominance. And if the dog gets away with it you are screwed as the dog thinks it is superior to you.
As for being 'nipped' for taking away a favourite belonging or plate of food, frankly that is shocking. If you allow a dog to nip you in these circumstances then there is no doubt the dog will see itself as the leader of the pack.
No matter what the breed - dogs that demonstrate these behaviours are dangerous. Even if they may not be big enough to kill, they are dangerous.
There are very simple behaviours an owner can demonstrate to reverse this - and it is about simple application.
One very simple trick is that a dog cannot eat until you give it a command - no matter what food is offered - and a dog should never eat before you do. Always feed a dog away from your mealtimes, or after you have eaten.
I am by far not a perfect dog trainer, nor have a perfectly trained dog, but he does know who's boss and for example if we put his food down he will sit and wait for a command no matter how long. Once I forgot to say 'eat' and came back half an hour later and the dog (he gave up sitting) was lying next to his bowl in a huge pool of dribble as he waited.
Get any dog training manual and there are three or four things that if done consistently will get a dog properly established below you in the hierarchy.
My (small) kids do play with the dog all the time and they are very good together. We don't deliberately leave them together but it is not front of mind for us not to either in the house or in the garden.
30 November 2009, 07:50 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: wirral,merseyside
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question - if the police see an illegal type dog can they not just take it there and then or shoot it?
Then prosecute the owner/keeper?[/QUOTE]
Hilarious thatd be a sight police shooting illegal dogs, the police have made mistakes pulling over people thinking they have an illegal breed and it has been something like a boxer- the police arent well trained enough in this area to know the difference of a staffy , pitbull, bull terrier or say an american bulldog.
I am ofte in liverpool and there are **** loads of pitbulls in liverpool still and i know my dogs and i know the difference! The police in liverpool dont care and i suppose nor do any other consabulary.
It was a matter of time before this happened again in liverpool particularly.
When the people change the dogs will and what i mean by this training a bull breed to hang from a tree branch by its teeth or to a tyre that has been tied to a tree by rope is teaching attacking capabilities and you see this from birkenhead/prenton to kensington/croxteth and all the other deprived areas in liverpool. Before anyone says anything against me for being snobby or something i live in prenton not far from birkenhead, i own two boxers and i see irresponsible owners letting there dogs crap everywhere and most of the staffies etc lunge at your dog when out walking and you get fed up of it.
Unfortunately certain breeds are more prone to these attacks on kids but its only there power that gets them in the press for instance a red zone attack from a bull breed could easy kill where a yorkie or a scotty will do some bad damage but not in the same legue in terms of jaw strength.
Then prosecute the owner/keeper?[/QUOTE]
Hilarious thatd be a sight police shooting illegal dogs, the police have made mistakes pulling over people thinking they have an illegal breed and it has been something like a boxer- the police arent well trained enough in this area to know the difference of a staffy , pitbull, bull terrier or say an american bulldog.
I am ofte in liverpool and there are **** loads of pitbulls in liverpool still and i know my dogs and i know the difference! The police in liverpool dont care and i suppose nor do any other consabulary.
It was a matter of time before this happened again in liverpool particularly.
When the people change the dogs will and what i mean by this training a bull breed to hang from a tree branch by its teeth or to a tyre that has been tied to a tree by rope is teaching attacking capabilities and you see this from birkenhead/prenton to kensington/croxteth and all the other deprived areas in liverpool. Before anyone says anything against me for being snobby or something i live in prenton not far from birkenhead, i own two boxers and i see irresponsible owners letting there dogs crap everywhere and most of the staffies etc lunge at your dog when out walking and you get fed up of it.
Unfortunately certain breeds are more prone to these attacks on kids but its only there power that gets them in the press for instance a red zone attack from a bull breed could easy kill where a yorkie or a scotty will do some bad damage but not in the same legue in terms of jaw strength.
Unfortunately these powerfull dogs have become a status symbol for the chavs. And like their offspring they are brought up with little discpline.
30 November 2009, 09:21 PM
#54
Owner of SNet
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 11,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many lion tamers have been killed ... ever? Pretty well none considering how many lion tamers there are in the world. If the chance of something happening is virtually zero it's not something to worry me & it shouldn't worry you either!
TX.
TX.
30 November 2009, 09:57 PM
#58
I have two Girls, aged 8 and 10 and they have been on at me to get a dog, well thats that idea for santa out the window, i was always a dog person but i don't own one and disliked cats, but i think thats changed.
30 November 2009, 10:17 PM
#59
On th enews just now they said it was an American bulldog style
i own an American bulldog and i cant see it being one of these,they are so dopey its unreal,but i suppose if mis-treated or goaded daily by its owner,who knows
RIP to the boy, i cant see it being a quick or pain free way to go,bless him
i own an American bulldog and i cant see it being one of these,they are so dopey its unreal,but i suppose if mis-treated or goaded daily by its owner,who knows
RIP to the boy, i cant see it being a quick or pain free way to go,bless him
30 November 2009, 10:34 PM
#60
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Passing ...............
Posts: 13,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RIP wee guy
Irresponsible owners have caused the death of here child. I hope some of the scumbags take heed on this & stop bringing & breeding dangerous dogs .....
I have a boxer & a lab & there brilliant dogs.
Irresponsible owners have caused the death of here child. I hope some of the scumbags take heed on this & stop bringing & breeding dangerous dogs .....
I have a boxer & a lab & there brilliant dogs.