Public sector has bloated - time for the axe
05 January 2010, 08:52 AM
#31
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People have gone a bit off track on here - this isn't about how much in the public sector are paid (I'm all for people getting rewarded for what they do), it's about there being 20% more in the public sector than 10 years ago, even after outsourcing - that's just madness.
The problem is the lack of real performance measures - it is clearly difficult for a number of public sector roles, where you just can't have enough of them, but there are a lot of areas where no-one ever admits they're unneccesary and woefully over-resourced.
Companies are often as guilty - when they're profitable no-one bats an eyelid at the inefficiencies or corporate excesses. In a downturn they're forced to become more efficient to compete - the same mindset needs to be applied to the public sector which, in the long run, has to be beneficial for those working in it.
Gordo
p.s. cster - you're spot on, but logic never gets in the way of lewis with his pitifully out-dated leftie views.
The problem is the lack of real performance measures - it is clearly difficult for a number of public sector roles, where you just can't have enough of them, but there are a lot of areas where no-one ever admits they're unneccesary and woefully over-resourced.
Companies are often as guilty - when they're profitable no-one bats an eyelid at the inefficiencies or corporate excesses. In a downturn they're forced to become more efficient to compete - the same mindset needs to be applied to the public sector which, in the long run, has to be beneficial for those working in it.
Gordo
p.s. cster - you're spot on, but logic never gets in the way of lewis with his pitifully out-dated leftie views.
Last edited by Gordo; 05 January 2010 at 08:53 AM.
05 January 2010, 09:41 AM
#32
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For this you have to blame the government, as one of the reasons there has been such an increase is the unbelievable amounts of bureaucracy public organisations have to deal with.
Simple Example:
Private Sector
1) Someone leaves the organisation
2) Job Vacancy
3) Internal candidate perfect for the job
4) Job offered to internal candidate.
Public Sector
1) Someone leaves the organisation
2) Business Case to decide if post has funding
3) Job Vacancy
4) Internal candidate perfect for the job
5) Job advertised internally and externally
6) Selection process (HR Involvement to ensure Equal Opps)
7) Interviews
8) Job offered to internal candidate.
When my supervisor left, I covered his job fully (at no extra pay) for 6 months and had to apply and interview against external candidates before being offered the job.
05 January 2010, 01:18 PM
#37
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Well if you are going to pay them the same amount to stay at home - they are not going to work are they?
Therefore you will have to pay them more to work than to stay at home.
Ergo - if they are unemployed, you will save money - simples.
Plus if they are unemployed, there is always a chance they might find something useful and meaningful to do with their lives.
You shouldn't just write them off because they are unemployed by giving them a will to live-sapping job in the public sector.
Therefore you will have to pay them more to work than to stay at home.
Ergo - if they are unemployed, you will save money - simples.
Plus if they are unemployed, there is always a chance they might find something useful and meaningful to do with their lives.
You shouldn't just write them off because they are unemployed by giving them a will to live-sapping job in the public sector.
Also, can someone give a genuine example of a non-job that everyone goes on about?
05 January 2010, 02:18 PM
#38
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As far as I can tell it is a group of people who are appointed to examine and advise about whatever the Govt feels it needs to be told how to do something in relation to the topic.
Its an expensive business and I think there are an amazing number of them now. Whether they are any good or not is hard to say. Poor value anyway.
Les
05 January 2010, 06:49 PM
#39
You're missing the point completely. If you pay someone £300 a week to do some work a) you get value from the work they do and b) you get 20% of it back in tax and NI. This therefore ends up cheaper and of higher value than paying someone dole money to sit at home. Not to mention the social benefits of that person having higher self-esteem etc. In fact, even if you have to pay them £500 a week, we'd be better off.
Also, can someone give a genuine example of a non-job that everyone goes on about?
Also, can someone give a genuine example of a non-job that everyone goes on about?
If they were to be employed in the private sector, I would agree with all you say, but the civil sector does not work by the same rules does it?
However, just to have a little fun with this conjecture - don't forget to add on employers NI at 12.8%.
Plus it will probably require some infrastructure to employ someone eg a nice warm office for them to work in. Oh, I'm sure we had better pay him a pension fund as well. Gee, this is beginning to add up.
But it doesn't really cost anything, because the taxpayer pays for it all.
As for a genuine non-job (and well paid to boot) - how about anything that Trevor Phillips has done over the last five years?
Last edited by cster; 05 January 2010 at 06:54 PM.
06 January 2010, 12:57 PM
#40
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I just fed up with tw&ts that just accuse anyone that works for the government as being a money grabbing fool.
These huge 1% per year wage increases were agreed 3 years ago when the economy was booming and after a hell of a lot of negotiations. Most private firms would quite happily give out 5-10% increases which nobody complained about at the time. Now when the purse string is being pulled, an increase of 1% for the public sector worker is viewed as ridiculous.
Yes, most politicians claimed far more than was morally acceptable. This has nothing to do with the emergency services and it is unfair to associate them with each other.
The argument that 'standards' haven't improved in the NHS or Police service is also unfounded as your cannot prove that things wouldn't be worse with fewer staff. Factor in the increase in timewasters that call 999 when they want a taxi or turn up at A&E because they fell over after consuming 15 pints and it isn't difficult to see why we need so many workers on the ground to deal with it as they don't have the power to turn them away.
Whether or not we need as much management as we currently have is something that needs looking at. But as I said, blame our sueing culture for that!
Can I assume that nobody on here has claimed £3000 for whip-lash when there was nothing wrong with them?
These huge 1% per year wage increases were agreed 3 years ago when the economy was booming and after a hell of a lot of negotiations. Most private firms would quite happily give out 5-10% increases which nobody complained about at the time. Now when the purse string is being pulled, an increase of 1% for the public sector worker is viewed as ridiculous.
Yes, most politicians claimed far more than was morally acceptable. This has nothing to do with the emergency services and it is unfair to associate them with each other.
The argument that 'standards' haven't improved in the NHS or Police service is also unfounded as your cannot prove that things wouldn't be worse with fewer staff. Factor in the increase in timewasters that call 999 when they want a taxi or turn up at A&E because they fell over after consuming 15 pints and it isn't difficult to see why we need so many workers on the ground to deal with it as they don't have the power to turn them away.
Whether or not we need as much management as we currently have is something that needs looking at. But as I said, blame our sueing culture for that!
Can I assume that nobody on here has claimed £3000 for whip-lash when there was nothing wrong with them?
The mini seats and backrests were good enough to save me from whiplash so I did not attempt to claim it. So your assumption is correct so far.
Les
06 January 2010, 01:05 PM
#41
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Spooky! I was once hit in the rear on my Beemer so hard by a Mini it wrecked his complete front end. Didn't even smash a light on mine. "but, I've got to get home to Hampshire?" (At 10-30 at night in Wembley Arena car park). "Oh dear" said I .......
Dave
06 January 2010, 01:30 PM
#42
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That was bad luck. My mini carried on to Lincs for the weekend and back to Devon. The Beemer that hit me left bits of radiator and all his water on the ground. I felt sorry for him, he was quite a pleasant chap!
Les
Les
06 January 2010, 02:02 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by chrispurvis100
Final salary pensions haven't been offered for quite some time now, so get your facts right.
06 January 2010, 04:01 PM
#44
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The Public sectors only job is to enable the private sector to exist and function. The public sector is paid for 100 percent by the private sector. It should therefor be kept as small as possible to avoid bankrupting the country. You cannot keep taxing genuine business just to keep 50k a year lesbian awarness co-ordinators in a job.
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