ARRON BIRD

Ever since I bought the car as a "used" car it has had some hesitation at higher revs.
The first 1500 miles of its life by the Managing Director of the garage I purchased it from used normal unleaded fuel!!!
I queeried that when I bought it and made a point of not enjoying its performance until I ran some Optimax through it.
It only ever ran properly on Optimax.
Even 97 Ron BP which I had in it the day before it blew up would make it hesitate a little.
all queeried with the dealer I originally bought it from and never resolved.
So as a consumer what do you do??? you carry on with your life and drive it.
I actually smelt an oily smell the evening before it went bang it was on BP 97, when I parked it on my drive??
No visible smoke and no visible smoke in the rear window but its bloody Winter so would you really see it in the dark and not looking for it!!
It wasnt smelly enough to make me panic or to even hastilly check the oil that night.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!
Should one check the oil every day??
I generally set the reminder on the dash and do it once a month quite normal I think.
Lets be honest its only done 8500 miles.
I shouldnt be suprised if the engine was damaged the last time "I used the performance" and its been a slow gradual breakdown from then on with the oil eventually running out or the piston failing.
The dipstick was dry and even after putting a full litre of oil in it didnt register on the dipstick.
IT DOESNT USE THAT MUCH OIL!!! LOL
As a matter of fact this car my 5th Scoob doesnt seem to use any oil at all whenever I have checked it??
A bit wierd??
I still think that car was running lean which is why it sometimes seemed like the ECU was backing things off too much...struggling to hit the Rev limiter if you wanted too??
And when it was run in on 95 RON was it caned??
I bet the mechanics did just that.
I dont know but if I have any finger pointing then the **** will hit the fan for sure!!
I have always rated Subaru UK warranty and have had to use it in the past but the initial "IT MUST BE YOU" by the dealer worries me into thinking Subaru have run out of money for the expensive claims.
i am also worried that the new engine will end up the same??
Any way lets wait and see what is unearthed next week when its stripped.
I still think it has a hole in it too even though I am told the 2nd litre of oil missed the filler and ran into the sump which is why it ended up on the floor.
i`m not that useles at mechanics???
Hmmmmmmm............
I wish I hadnt bothered to put any new oil in it as I`m sure it makes me look guilty of letting it run out but it was a natural thing for me to do at the time.
I now have a shiney new red Golf 2.0TD which is very nice I might add after complaing about the smoked in Astra 1.8 I had before.
Thanks Enterprise!!
BIRDY xx
Birdy.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

I was under the impression IM request the spec of there cars to tailor for the uk market they choose if it's going to be 2.0 litre or 2.5 etc and what engines are going to be used in the uk cars. Not sure why they always used a different spec 2.0 litre to the uk from 01-07 ,but perhaps cost is one of the reasons.

Immy

SunnySideUp

Did Subaru say they had evidence that you had tracked it? Without reading back over all the posts I can't be sure?

I remember, way back in the year 2000, people on here were moaning about IM videoing cars going round tracks - then, when a warranty claim came in they were refusing them - someone may remember that? Possibly they still do it? Take a note of the numberplate/car/driver just in case a claim appears on their desk?

Glad you got a better hire car!

I presume that the car you bought had quite a big discount? - being used by the MD and everyone else who turned up for a test drive. Personally, I hate DEMO cars (and the MD's car is always a DEMO!) ..... I know how I treat them on a test drive (and I'm gentle!) - would hate thinking that my car had been thrashed to within an inch of its life, on the cheapest petrol, by all and sundry

I hope it all gets sorted out!

renny

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear of the trouble fella.

Having just signed on the dotted line for a 330S demo I'm very interested to see how you get on with this!!

ARRON BIRD

My car has never been near a track mate
I was however considering taking it to Bedford but am very glad now I didnt!!!

walsh128

T5NYW. Maybe fuel pressure is the answer. I heard a comment that its always no 4 piston cos of the design of the injection system. ie no 4 injector is the last one in the line so always loses fuel first on low pressure.
Not convinced on the cast/forged piston issue. You would have to make them from steel to stop the cheese holes from forming on the ring land. If they were cracking and breaking up, then I would agree.

ARRON BIRD

Renny you should be able to buy any used car demo or whatever with confidence.
Just ask the question about fuel used thus far.
See if they have their own pumps on site.
It isnt going to help running 95 ron I dont think.
I did get a healthy discount on the demo car yes and why not.
I was coming from a new Range Sport that cost me just shy of £60K sold a Year later for £37 so was trying to save as much as possible!!!!

walsh128

[QUOTE=ARRON BIRD;9146310]I actually smelt an oily smell the evening before it went bang it was on BP 97, when I parked it on my drive??
No visible smoke and no visible smoke in the rear window but its bloody Winter so would you really see it in the dark and not looking for it!!
It wasnt smelly enough to make me panic or to even hastilly check the oil that night.


I dont think you see blue smoke anymore. Thinks the catalyst burns it all. The only time you will see it is when the cat is wrecked.
Only warning you will get is when all the oil is gone!!!! and you hear the shells pinging off the piston skirts.

ARRON BIRD

[QUOTE=walsh128;9146482]YEP that`ll be the noise then!!!
The oil light didnt even come on til I put the clutch in???
The dealer did question why there is no oil residue on the exhaust but it was dark and couldnt see that didnt even look to be honest
Would you get residue??

morfo

I was getting my rad pressure tested at a Subaru dealer last autumn and one of the mechanics showed me a 330s engine, 1600 miles old with the same damage as in the first pics posted. He believed the engines can't handle the power.

SunnySideUp

An STi 330S MY08 is going to be one of the Imprezas which will lose the most money come re-sale time ..... quite clearly.

nick172sport

iTrader: (6)

cant believe they put rubbish pistons in the uk cars when jdm model gets forged ones

dj219957

do not stand for anything other than a full rebuild foc.
if they try to blame you then threaten them with watchdog, media, the lot.
good luck!

walsh128

have you got anymore of those photos? any looking down from the top?
ta

nick172sport

iTrader: (6)

there was a post in another thread that subaru had halted all production off 2.5 due tu engine failure

renny

iTrader: (2)

Funnily enough I asked the question about the fuel today - they assured me it has been run on Super Unleaded and they all have their own fuel cards,so they said why wouldn't they.

Don't buy that but at the same time I don't buy the fact you have to run it on Super anyway. I always use V Power but I've always been led to believe the ecu will adapt.

My current Hawkeye was a demo and was run on 95 ron unleaded from a pump off the forecourt for the 1st 100 miles and it runs like a dream.

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

In my experience & stripping rebuilding these 2.5's the piston failure is not cyl specific or a single failure, most have had at least 2 pistons with the land broken away only held by the ring, the others when crack tested are in the early stages of failure.

I don't understand your comment on " You would have to make them from steel to stop the cheese holes forming on the ring land, if they were cracking and breaking up.

What is your cheese holes reffering to.

Clearly they are cracking & breaking up, i personally weighed in 32 failed Subaru 2.5 pistons at Xmas.

Also i may add this piston failure is not specific to Impreza STI's, some of the failed pistons have come from Legacy outbacks & Foresters, which were normally aspirated, but failed at higher mileage than the turbo engines.

walsh128

32 failed pistons. Thats crazy. No doubt you have to replace the broken ones with new rubbish ones.
Detonation on 2 strokes. The top edge of the piston looks like a piece of cheese or woodworm damage. I had a chromed bore once where it looked like a worm had chewed through the cylinder head and down into the bore behind the chrome.
The piston in the photo looked similar. ie looked like erosion behind the ring.
Obviosly, if the lands are breaking behind the rings (whether through increased forces due to detonation) the pistons arent up to the job and should be replaced with better ones via a recall.

johnfelstead

Sorry to hear of your problem Aaron. Forget the oil light, they only come on at 5psi (0.3BAR), if that ever comes on with the engine running it's got a totally wrecked crank. They normally idle at above 3BAR+ with the oil hot, 7BAR under higher rpm to give you some idea.

If the ring lands have broken, then you can put the oil disappearing down to that, you would not catch it running out of oil using normal check intervals unless you are lucky once that failure happens, so if they come back saying it's your fault because you let the oil level drop, make sure you have the piston condition checked as that failure isn't oil starvation related, that failure is why the oil disappears quickly.

If the pistons are OK, then you may be on a stickier wicket in terms of not checking the oil level, but even with that i'd be amazed if you dont get this done under waranty.

JDM twin scrolls all the way mate!

mickp

iTrader: (1)

A very informative and clear post

Well done John

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

There is no detonation damage on these failed pistons, what you can see on the top land is carbon flaking off, these failed piston's usually have larger than normal deposits of carbon due to the increased oil consumption

The other marking you refer to in the back of the ring land is the cast material fracture marking. You can also see the polished marks at either end of the failed piston due to fretting whilst running.

Most of the failed pistons hold onto the broken piece of land via the ring, although i have seen 2 that have had the broken off part jam the piston solid with the rod & piston going through the block.

ARRON BIRD

Very informative post chaps very informative.
How are you doing John??
Long time no speak?
Too long!!
Look at me ..I get back into the best Scoob I`ve ever owned and its ****ed already LOL!!
I just hope when they strip it they dont try and point the finger again.
Its broken and its no fault of mine!!
Maybe they looked at my past ownership record LOL
We`ll see what next week brings.
I wish now I had bought a JDM car from Licho knowing what I now know about the differing piston construction.
BUT at the time the price/spec of the 330s was the way to go and I dont really want to buy a new car again after losing so much money over the past few Years.
Very hard to find a good used Type 20 for example which would have been my ideal choice.
Be interesting to see how Iains warranty would fair up against an engine failure like this.
Will keep everyone posted...its important that 330s owners for example know what can happen and the end result.
I will use the sale of goods act should I need as the car isnt yat a Year old but I really hope it doesnt come to that as I genuinely really like this car its the best Scoob I`ve owned and of course that is only my opinion.
I am planning the Litcho suspension set up next and thats it.
No need to remap etc as it should be PRODRIVE sorted should it not???
Arron.

johnfelstead

Been very busy working with the racing cars for the last 5 years, so not been around much, but spotted the old git posting name so i thought I'd pop on and say my bit.

I'm running an MY05 JDM STi these days, and i have to say it's damn good, it's pretty standard bar a remap/exhaust which has it around 370BHP/400Lbft. For the type of driver you are, the 2.0 twin scroll would be perfect for you post a remap, I'm sure Licho would have something well in place regarding warranties as thats the kind of chap he is.
I drove a JDM STi hatch the other week that was still being run in, so didn't get to thrash it unfortunately, but it seemed OK to me, the seats are crap was the main thing i picked up on, but it was the lower spec interior version.

I would expect you wont have a problem with this engine fix under warranty, once fixed I'd be keeping to the Prodrive spec map on this car to retain the warranty and resale value. I would be avoiding the BP though, it seems to be susceptible to det in these engines based on feedback from mappers. The newage ECU should cope with that, but i personally wont use the stuff, Shell V power of Tesco 99 are what i use.

Going forward i would expect Iain would be able to find a car for you if you gave him the nod. You don't need to find a Type20, just get a JDM STi and make the changes you want to it, I've found on mine it needs very little to make it a great car, the newage stuff is pretty good out of the box, you would love the twin scroll engine once mapped, it's got fantastic mid range torque but much better top end revs for holding the gear mid corner.

VinceW

The 1st service is at 10k miles, there is no 1k service any more. If the refash was too take place then it may be too late anyway!

superstar1

When did they stop doing the 1k service?
Doesn't seem right to me.

StanS

iTrader: (3)

I changed my oil&filter at about 1500 miles and again at about 7K miles. I intend changing every 5K miles. If you intend giving it a good blast every so often, its worth it for the price of a tank of fuel (DIY).

Dave_P

Long thread and this was a long way back but 2nd Rob's views on getting a bespoke re-map...well known that the first factory map & the first prodrive map for the 330S had 'issues'.

Had a totally standard UK STI hatch that had ringland failure within 3.5K miles from new (and I've had other Subaru's & know how to run them in & look after them).

When I had the replacement engine fitted under warranty I also fitted a cold air intake, full 3" Milltek exhaust & had a custom re-map. Been running around with 360bhp & 380lbft for 30K miles since on this setup with no problems...

And for all those people who keep saying, you've screwed up your warranty, have you never heard of keeping all the standard parts & re-fitting them before you take the car to the Subaru main dealer if there are any major problems

renny

iTrader: (2)

The problem here is that on this particular occasion it's a Prodrive map - not a standard Subaru one.

johnfelstead

It takes two minutes to check if the map is a standard or PPP one, if it's not there goes your waranty.

StrikE

iTrader: (3)

I asked the same thing! apparently they don't need a 1K service now, for all it is to service it though surely it's worth it?