p1doc

well if IM read scoobynet and they knock back your claim for an unmodified well looked after car under a year old they would generate so much bad publicity it would be unbelievable-i am on my third impreza second forester and nearly first murtaya owner so wouldnot be happy if Im start messing owners about!
martin

ZEN Performance

Given how many 08 STIs any given dealer has through there doors (ie not many) and how many warranty claims I've heard about, especially before the ECU code upgrade, I think the statistics you mention would be frightening.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Presumably the car had been serviced according to their schedule, in which case it would be difficult for IM to claim that the engine running completely dry of oil was not caused by some fault. I know the instruction books say you should monitor oil levels between services, but it would be very poor customer service to use this as an excuse to wriggle out of a legitimate warranty claim.

I've always been really impressed by Subaru reliability and customer service, one of the main reasons I have owned Impreza's continuously since 1996. If this is the way they are going then I definitely won't be back for another. I will monitor this thread with interest.

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps if IM are monitoring this thread as claimed they may be able to shed some light on this or maybe they won't bother

dunx

iTrader: (3)

An "independant" consultant will soon argue your case and the costs could be recovered from IM ?

I have nothing good to say about the stealers or IM, except that only one of my three warranty related complaints was ever honoured.

dunx

Allan

iTrader: (1)

Following this thread with interest, good luck with getting it sorted.

FauxSTi

iTrader: (1)

I pick up my STi hatch on Tuesday. It's an ex company car, just under 2 years old, and has covered 76k miles, should I be worried about this problem, or does this mileage mean it's proven to be strong? Also.. it's coming from a big name dealer, but not Subaru, will I be covered by the warranty I get from them should the worst happen?

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

Are you sure its on the same engine / rebuilt, as was original to that car.
I personally can,t believe its on the same OE pistons that have covered that mileage. If it has i think it should be in a museum.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

So with the Ring land damage, what do they think stops the Oil being suck up into combustion chamber? The oil is ignited and now the engine will become a Oil burning Diesel and eat its self to death.

At this stage you would need a Oil Tanker behind you to keep up the oil level

Most people comment that it felt like it had an extra 50bhp but then amber Oil light and the knock of death.

Yes it ran out of Oil but "Chicken and Egg" "cause and effect". No way on earth that lack of oil would cause this sort of Ring Land damage. Obviously must have been a salesmen reading this Topic, even the wannabe fitter who sweeps the Subaru garage floor would know this

Get photos of crank and main bearings, Cylinder bores, Conrods and bearings, Pistons and possibly keep one of each of the above for an independant engineers report.

if you Drained your Oil out completely and ran you car on a motorway, a fast road or trackday, sorry but the damage would not start at the Piston ring Land area. Oil failure STARTs from bottom end of the engine and work upwards(across) toward pistons and heads.

Big ends, then Conrods damage but you would hear this from 3 counties way, (Possible piston contact with valves) Main bearings, then Pistons damage would be severely scored through no lubrication and eventually seize up.

The Piston ring land failure "Caused" the loss of Oil, Which in turn could result in Crank or bigend bearing damage due no or low Oil pressure. The Low pressure Oil warning light will not completely stop any damage it will only save major damage.

if there was no ring land damage and only big end and main bearing damage, you would need to find out where the oil went

IMHO IIRC

Tony

Ps when the do you engine dont forget them to check the exhaust turbine on the Turbo, those pieces of metat went somewhere

FauxSTi

iTrader: (1)

Not sure whats been done to it, I have a print out of service work its had, one of the services had a bill of £1750 so that must have been something major, how much is a cambelt? I went into my local dealers to ask if they could tell me what work had been done but I'd forgotten that they have no central database. I need to track down the places where the work has been done and ring them on Monday.

ARRON BIRD

Thankyou once more for yout interesting comments especially Tony.
I am not getting on well with the so called "SERVICE MANAGER"!!!
I`m not going to slag the dealership off as I dont think thats gonna help but I shouldnt be the one telling HIM whats happened to the engine??
Its a shame as this dealership was recommended to my by an ex Prodrive employee as being more experienced with this problem and indeed may have carried out a rebuild before.
All I get is "you shouldnt believe everything you read on the internet!!""????
I have lost my patience with him to be honest.
Will see what Monday brings.
I may now due to the terrible service I have recieved so far, ask IM for a replacement car.
I am very concerned as to what happens to it if repaired and fails again cos I was actually driving it again LOL???

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Under the Freedom of Information Act you can get all the stats you want from IM. Ask them for the failures, models, stc and they should not stand in your way.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

FOIA only applies to public bodies, private organisations are not required to disclose anything unless they choose to or are given a court order.

johnfelstead

It's like deja vu all over again.

Remember the piston slap issue on the early phase2 classic turbo's, it took a while but eventually IM saw sense and replaced the short engine under warranty, with a modified piston design. My own short motor replacement under warranty led to my running the car in, in a day thread.

Hopefully you don't have a fight when it gets to IM level, if you do then they are making a big mistake.

stuart2008sti

iTrader: (1)

Arron i believe that the law has changed with regards to rejecting the car, must be under six months old.Had the same issue with mine at 9k miles,

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...engine+failure

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

not very scientific on how many UK hatch owners I know and how many have had issues.
10 UK/EU owners(all of them LOL) 2 engines 1 headgasket 25-33%

Not be much better with 06/07 2.5ltr UK/EU Saloons 12 mates, 1 engine 3 headgaskets (one of these was back in for engine)

IMHO the Piston Ring land damage is due to Pressures being exerted on the land over it's design threshhold. So are they fit for purpose?

If designed for Purpose then this over pressure is from an abnormality, the most likely cause is Pre-detonation.

Fuel Pump speed control is a good place to start. Put a pressure sensor inline and monitor correct Fuel pressure in every senario. Or if the Mapping and control of the Dual Variable Valve timing is correct. Or mapping of the fly-by-wire throttle was giving mappers some issues

Awe thanks your a driver and not an engineer

To stick up for the Service guy, i read your couple of posts I got a bit confused over the Oil and missing the spout saga but I'm not the brightess button in the box


Tony

ARRON BIRD

Well Tony all I can say is I didnt run it out of oil.
It broke down so ichecked the dipstick and it was not registering on the dipstick so I put a litre in it that was supplied with the car in the boot.
It didnt register on the dipstick after that!!!
I bought another litre from the Texaco garage and put that in it it was then when I noticed it on the floor SO I assumed that the engine must have a hole in it??
According to the dealer I MISSED with that litre and poured it down the side of the filler.
A possibility as I`m no mechanic but I`m not stupid either??
Either way it definatly had a full litre put in it before I noticed any on the floor so make of it what you will.
The main issue I have is it ran out of oil cos its failed NOT failed becuase I ran it out of oil.
I even have the oil check reminder set on the in dash system to remind me...he could check that if he had any idea of looking!!!
I have had at least 10 text messages on my phone at a pound a time telling me the car alarm has gone off despite my calls telling them!!
The last thing I want is bloody hassle but thats all I`ve had so far ITS ALL MY FAULT and Im sorry I totally refute those accusations.
Any warranty issues I`ve had with IM with last cars have been sorted without any quibble it doesnt seem right to me all this just dont get it.
Anyway we`ll see what Monday brings.

ARRON BIRD

5th Subaru a say agin too
Pretty loyal me foolishly now maybe

kp51 bad

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to but in !!!

04 2ltr type uk STI what pistons has this got?
Anything to worry about???

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Thanks, i understand now Sorry old farts like me take a couple of goes before it sinks in

I don't think you will need to worry

Tell them to repair the Engine then drain all the oil out and run it dry if because no Oil damages the Piston Lands tell them you will pay for both engines if it just knackers the bearings etc they replace the car FOC


IIRC the UK 2.0ltr & 2.5ltr Pistons are made in a simular way but.. to give a poor analagy.. A reliable 2 mile bridge design was stretched to go over a 2.5 mile gap and now a few have a few collapsed
No more than usaul IMHO

Tony

CP84

When i had probs with my dealer I contacted a bloke called sam burton at subaru uk and he was helpful and sorted it out for me.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Hypereutectic cast aluminium alloy with some mad tight bore clearances, hence people wanting to build 2.5 based engines replacing the pistons for forged ones if they plan to run more power than standard. There is little or no room in there to account for expansion, and while Hyperutectic pistons are in theory more thermally stable than forged (therefore less expansion so tighter tollerances can be run to reduce engine noise) and while being stronger than cast they are more brittle than either.

In pure engineering terms they seem like an ideal solution, however having spent a bit of time working on Subaru engines and OEM engine components, the parts rarely meet the build tolerances specified in the manuals, cranks being a classic for example.

ARRON BIRD

Lengthy meaningful conversation with IM warranty this morning.
Some interesting comments!!
Car will be repaired under warranty and I wouldnt have expected anything else.
The factory assures IM that the replacement engine components are upto the job.
I did raise the issues I had with the replacement failing again and was assured that the warranty would remain 3yrs OR 60000 miles.
I wait for a list of components to be fitted from the dealer for my interest only and records.
Arron.

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

Good result, Arron, It might be worth dropping in to the dealer unannouced, & have a look, i would be interested in a picture of the failed ring lands.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

They'll fit you a factory built short block. So basically you'll get a new block, bearings crank rods and pistons. Gaskets will be replaced but just about everything else will be reused.

I buy the knackered blocks that get replaced from my subaru dealer. The get honed (if needed) and then built with a set of nice forged pistons (and rods if required) and sold on. Not had one back yet either touch wood!

walsh128

What I don’t get is, why after spending a fortune building a new model they make such a ***** up of the ECU mapping.
Its not just Subaru.
Bikes or cars, The stock mapping is always flawed.
Anyway, 10 out of 10 for these web forums. We’re all a lot better educated and informed. And richer tooo!!!

urban

iTrader: (1)

That is good news.

I've been really tempted to get a new STI (I'm on my 4th Impreza now) but all the talk of engine failures have put me right off unfortunately.

I'd also most likely want it remapped by the likes of Andy Forrest

urban

iTrader: (1)

IM do read and post on scoobynet.

I know for sure that they also like to "leak" stuff on here
I was fairly friendly with an IM employee due to problems with my last STI and he told me a few stories about that - he doesn't work there anymore though

Shaun

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Is it possible to have forged pistons installed during the build and pay the difference in price?
This might give a bit of assurance for the future?

johnfelstead

There is nothing wrong with the stock mechanical setup at stock PPP levels of performance if the mapping is correct.

The problem with factory maps these days is the hoops they have to jump through for EU type approval, and it's getting harder each year, it's no surprise they make the wrong compromise on ocasion.

The classic model has an interesting mapped in feature to get round some of the old EU legislation. In those if you hold a steady speed/throttle for a few seconds at about 45MPH, then floor it, the turbo only produces half boost, that was mapped in to get round the noise and emissions regs test they perform for type approval at the time. Bloody dangerous if you are going for an overtake and you only have half the power you expected, if you ever feel that come off the throttle and straight back on, that gives you full power again.

EU do some truly daft things, the current one going through is to make all tyres less noisy and have lower drag to improve emissions, this means running tyres that don't grip as well so more likely to cause accidents in bad weather especially. But hey, think of the CO2's.

anyway, well done Arron, result as i expected.