alcazar

iTrader: (2)

More b0llox from Pete: firstly, teachers' pay rises are pegged at 1% for the next two years, no matter what the economy does, which you, as a chariman of governors, (ego-trippers), should know full well.

Secondly, only those teachers not yet at the top of their scale will get the incrememntal allowance, which is simply an excuse to pay them less for a few years until the reach the top.

Now tell nursey to put you back to bed.

Leslie

Its good to read your post.

Les

SunnySideUp

Yes, I know this .... I didn't deny it

What we will see is the Teachers moaning about the 1% rise ... maybe even strike action ... what I want people to remember is they are the same people who couldn't quite make it to work like 99.9% of the population.

And I am not Chair of Governors

I see, so - what you are saying is that a newly qualified teacher should be paid the top of the scale from day 1? That's £35,568 in London PLUS, of course, TLR Payments - maybe £10,000.

So, you think a 23 year old newly qualified teacher should be on £45,568? - see the flaw in your argument?

She begs me to take her to bed ..... nothing like an old man who knows what to do - she has had enough of the 30 year old kiddies who haven't a clue

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Not a chair of governors? But you USED to be........got voted down, eh?
Not surprised really, the teacher governors probably orchestrated it, hence your attacks on teachers now

I see a flaw in YOUR argument: you have quoted Inner London wages and the maximum TLR to make teachers look well/over paid. Nice try.

And nowhere did I say they should be paid that from day one, just that many will NOT see another extra raise this year

Anything else from our resident trolling ego-tripper, (governor)?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Oh and why is nursey nursing 30 year old kiddies as well as you?
I get it.....you're not in an old folks' home, you're in a mental ward?

SunnySideUp

OK, fair enough - lets take a Teacher on UPS3 ... as is usual after a few years - that's £36,000.

Most Teachers after a few years will be looking after the bike shed, or notice board - so, they demand a TLR Payment ...... let's be generous to your argument and call it £8000?

So, a 30 year old Teacher would expect to be on around £44,000 .... not a kings ransom, granted - but, for a 26 directed hour week? I think it's pretty decent!! An plenty of parents would be well cheesed off to see those figures behind the NUT when they bitch about low pay!

Hysteria1983

So it seems that it's all about the issue of money Pete.

My question to you earlier in the thread was ...

'Do you care more about the fact the teachers are getting paid when the school is closed? Or the fact the 100's of children are missing out on their education?'

As the thread has continued, it seems you actually have answered it.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Oh Pete, you do try it on don't you?
1265 directed hours divided by 195 directed days gives 32.45 directed hours per week.:rolleyes;

And you KNOW that 99.9% of teachers work far more than that, since the MAXIMUM hours worked isn't in the legislation, but they are expected, by law, to do as many hours as it takes to finish the work they have.

And this "Bikeshed" stuff is yet another red herring.

Do you REALLY know of ANYONE getting an allowance for nothing, now? Given that the retention allowances are time limited?

Or are you happy for all the good teachers at your school to be poached by another school with more money than yours? And for department heads to earn the same as a classroom teacher?

Give it a rest, for Pete's sake You have shown by your latest replies that it's the money that bothers you. 'Nuff said

ScoobyDoo555

Sadly Pete, what you're missing is that the 26 hours you quote is your "contact time" with the learner. You are actually contracted to roughly 37.5 hours.... like everybody else in the working world (of which most teachers/tutors actually do more than this)

But as has been pointed out, the person with the problem seems to be you.

SunnySideUp

The only problem I have is that Teachers have it so good, that it gets my blood boiling listening to them whining and whinging and bleating that they are not appreciated.

Teachers should do 2 years after training spent in the real world ... would enhance their teaching skills AND set in their mind how well off they really are!

And, yes, there are plenty of Teachers in receipt of TLR payments which are used as Retention payments ........ like I said, looking after the bike shed!

ScoobyDoo555

Pete, as part of your teacher training & as an NQT, you HAVE to be in the "real world". Of which during that time you are on the lowest pay (rightly so). The increments build up as your experience increases.

Spend some time doing the job. It may or may not change your mind.

ScoobyDoo555

ps whilst training, you don't get paid at all.

ScoobyDoo555

FWIW, I have the EXACT same issues about Politicians

However, I'm man enough to concede that I don't actually know all of the "ins & outs" of the job to make this comment - but I do anyway.......

I fully accept that I could be REALLY REALLY wrong (in epic proportions!)

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Retention payment........looking after the bike shed?

So in YOUR school, you'd prefer said good young teacher to be poached by another school?
Yes or no?

dunx

iTrader: (3)

The school wasn't closed, except for being "shut down" an hour early so the "bless 'ems" could get home safely in daylight....

In South Leeds the number of kids from generations of "employment resistant" families is scary, whilst arranging snow ploughs and gritting someone said to me, "how quiet it is", well yes the disruptive "thickos" are the ones at home with an Xbox. These are the problem society has to deal with IMHO, NOT a few well paid teachers having a quiet week at work.....

dunx

Hysteria1983

Pete, my mother was a teacher for 32 years.
She got pneumonia and almost died. She spent the best part of 9 months attempting to get to a point where she could simply hold a conversation while sitting down! Ask her to do that and walk across the room - no chance!

After 12 months she was simply dismissed. That was it, bye bye!

She poured her heart and soul into the 2nd most deprived school in the whole of Wales, a well as being a mother to four children.

She helped the school to make a massive improvement and set up a classes where the parents could come in take part in lessons with their children which could help them break the 'cycle of deprivation' which we see in certain 'deprived areas' of society.

She didn't finish work at 3.00pm and she didn't spend her half term holidays sunning herself. In actual fact we only ever had ONE holiday abroad throughout my whole childhood. That was simply because my dad won a holiday to Disney Land for four people. They save the rest of the money for the other 2 places.

She wasn't that well paid, and she never once got told that her job was making a difference in peoples lives, yet, day after day, week after week and every year for 32 years, she got up and out of bed to go and attempt to make a difference in people lives.

You Pete, need to to and crawl back under that trolling bridge, and find yourself some sort respect. Some respect for peoples opinions on here, and some respect for the people who are out there providing an education for the children of today.

SunnySideUp

Errrrm, yes - that's true ....... the TAXPAYER pays to train you and then pays your high pay when you start.

You trying to say that you should get paid to train too!!!!!?????? Typical attitude of someone who hasn't stepped one inch into the real world!

SunnySideUp

EH? The steps of a Teacher:-

1. Attend school

2. Attend college

3. Attend Uni

4. Attend Teacher Training college

5. Attend school to teach

Not once has the 'Real World' been encountered, sorry!!

SunnySideUp

If all schools decided NOT to poach then Governors would NOT have to play silly games trying to keep the good young blood with pathetic, mickey mouse, extra duties to pay TLR payments!!

This STILL doesn't stop Teachers whineing that they are low paid - that's my point!!!! Our Heads of Department are on about £48,000 - to manage a department with 4 staff!! In the 'Real World' that would command about £30,000!! AND the £30,000 job has 28 days holiday NOT 70!!!

Are TEachers very well paid ...... Yes or No?

SunnySideUp

A heartwarming recollection and I'm sorry you don't understand my points - which are very valid and accurate ..... hardly trolling!

You say your mother was dismissed - that simply doesn't happen for sickness - Teachers get a very handsome Ill Health Retirement Package (the pension is paid as if the Teacher had reached normal retirement age), that's fair and right and what your mother received ..... unless she was dismissed for another reason entirely? But, only 12 Teachers in over 30 years have been sacked ...... maybe your mother was one? But I doubt it as she seems to have been a very good servant of the Education system.

I'm sorry that she was never told, just once, that her work was making a difference ... that's sad - the Teachers I see are being praised very regularly by the Governors, by their colleagues, by parents and by their pupils ... I witness that many times. The leaving parties are a special treat for me where I see children I have known from age 11 now leaving with a tear in their eye aged 16 and looking with a great fondness on the teacher who took them on that journey.

I'm really, really sorry your mum didn't experience that great feeling.

ScoobyDoo555

Keep digging Pete - you couldn't be more wrong.

PGCE qualifications are paid by the individual, just like all other HE qualifications.

In FE, the PGCE gets paid by your employer. As part of your Continual Professional Development. If you don't stay, you have to pay the training fees back.

and you have no idea about my real world experience, so you're embarrassing yourself even further.
Typical attitude of an ignorant luddite who can't come to terms with a concept that he just doesn't understand.

ScoobyDoo555

LOL - you're not that bright are you - perhaps you need to go back to school.

Your point 5 IS real world - just like when you train to be any job. The point at which you do it for an employer, that IS real world.

Now run along and play in the snow.

ScoobyDoo555

You've also conveniently omitted that steps 1,2,3 are the exact same for most employees..... so what's your point?

If anything by then going to do FURTHER training for a job (step 4), surely this "scum" of the employment world are even more prepared......

NOW, you can run along.....

Hysteria1983

She was dismissed after 12 months sickness on 'ill health grounds'. Sure she got what she was owed from the system, but to be honest what she really wanted was for them all to thank her for the hard work she had put in over the decades, she didn't even get a send off. Nothing, just a letter.

You contradict yourself and keep digging a deeper hole. One minute you are saying things like '' Teachers get a very handsome Ill Health Retirement Package (the pension is paid as if the Teacher had reached normal retirement age), that's fair and right and what your mother received'' basically saying that the system in place is fair.

Then ''Our Heads of Department are on about £48,000 - to manage a department with 4 staff!! In the 'Real World' that would command about £30,000!! AND the £30,000 job has 28 days holiday NOT 70!!!''

You cannot simply pick and choose what aspects of the education system suit you. It is like any career, there are good bits and bad bits. Some jobs get all sorts of perks and high paid wages for no reason, do I moan? No. Whats the point, feeling a bit peed off about it isn't going to make a change. And to be honest i think that there is nothing to moan about.

You say that teachers should have 2 years in the 'real world' after training? What do you think they do while they are training? They have to spend a certain amount of time in the classroom in the real world' before they can qualify. Most of this contact time spent with the children, hands on. They have to do lesson plans, find recourses and teaching aids as a 'real teacher' would do. They don't spend 12 months of their teacher training sitting on their hands in a room being talked at.

And as for asking are teacher VERY well paid?

My answer from personal experience is no.

You seem to forget the issue of how else the government works. The higher the salary the higher the tax and the lower the benefits.
Things like working tax, child benefit etc, it all changes. The more you earn, the less you get.
My mother was no better off working full time, than someone who was working a 16 hour week and getting 'top up's' from the government. Is that fair?

SunnySideUp

At least she got a very good early retirement package, I'm glad about that - not many other jobs can boast such a generous payment .... hopefully, the financial benefits come some way to making up for the lack of a thank you.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Back to "good young teachers", Pete, if we may?

Given that there AREN'T enough to go round, and that other schools WILL nick them, often promoting them instead of giving them retention payments, that is if they have managed THEIR budget properly, unlike your school, (a £48,000 HoD of FOUR teachers??????), then do you want your school to retain these good young staff, or not?

A simple yes, or no, will suffice

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Oh, and while we are on it, most teachers earn nowt during 6th form, (unlike, say engineering apprentices, who start earning at 16+), earn nowt through uni, and earn nowt during PGCE, while all the time racking up debts at between £2,500 and £7,500 pa, so finishing with anything between £10,000 and £30,000 owing.

AND YOUR rotten Lying Labour party encouraged them to take these debts interest free, then sold them to another company who promptly added interest.

AND that's only in England.........no debts for Scottish students, oh no........

Dedrater

I don't think this is what the thread is about anyway Alcazer.

It just seems like a slur on a worthy profession.

SunnySideUp

We DO retain our staff ....... soon, there will be too many Teachers.

I'm confused as to your comment on the £48,000 HoD? Are you saying that is too small, therefore we risk losing our Teachers?