engine re builds £??
28 January 2010, 04:53 PM
#33
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rings up every 3 months wanting to know if his car is ready - right pitaNever again.
Oh!,
Hi Ross, didn't realise it was you
Just the fuel pump and the map and then you can start drawing out your hard earned.....
David
28 January 2010, 05:09 PM
#34
sorry david / rossi / bob
what makes the 2.33/5 the best block, what are the gains over a 2.5 i would of thought that the 2.5 would make more power due to the bigger bore?
what makes the 2.33/5 the best block, what are the gains over a 2.5 i would of thought that the 2.5 would make more power due to the bigger bore?
28 January 2010, 05:59 PM
#38
Stevie,
'Best' depends on your interpretation.
IMHO, the ej22 block stroked out to 2.33/2.35 combines the more revvy nature of the 2.0/2.1 and the low down grunt of the 2.5.
As per the above post, the ej22t is in theory a stronger block than the 2.5. You can strengthen the 2.5 to suit though... there are plenty of big power 2.5's out there without issue so this shouldn't really be a concern.
Like most things, what is best for you is not always the best for everyone else.
We are deviating somewhat from the OP's question... apologies.
'Best' depends on your interpretation.
IMHO, the ej22 block stroked out to 2.33/2.35 combines the more revvy nature of the 2.0/2.1 and the low down grunt of the 2.5.
As per the above post, the ej22t is in theory a stronger block than the 2.5. You can strengthen the 2.5 to suit though... there are plenty of big power 2.5's out there without issue so this shouldn't really be a concern.
Like most things, what is best for you is not always the best for everyone else.
We are deviating somewhat from the OP's question... apologies.
Last edited by rossi_p; 28 January 2010 at 06:02 PM.
Oh and 500 of both!
28 January 2010, 07:41 PM
#45
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Martyn at engine tuner if he tell you two weeks then it's two weeks if he tells you three weeks then 3 weeks it is. I had my 2.5 built there a few months back and so far not a single issue and very well priced, Harvey is another trader on here who also has a lot of experience not your usual sales man type if it works he would sell it to you he will tell you what will work best.
28 January 2010, 08:07 PM
#46
If you want the ultimate engine I think it would be a 2.38 at present (often referred to as 2.4 litre) but to build a really powerful motor takes £s, regardless of 2.0 2.1 2.33 2.35 2.38 or 2.5. Also remember the most successful competition engine around for the last couple of years has been the Gobstopper at 2 litres. A lot depends on what revs you want to use. A 2.5 is nice and torquey but not able to rev like a high output 2 litre.
A 2.5 is a very torquey unit but do not rely on the standard pistons for anything more than 350 bhp.
I have a couple of new, boxed US 2.5 STi blocks but I want them for our own use. Getting an unused 2.5 at the right price is a good starting point for a cost effective fast engine.
Don't wait until you break it in the false belief it won't cost a lot more to put right once it is broken. Once broken as opposed to being in reasonable running order substantially adds to the cost of rebuild. Just start by adding modine and oil pump.
The Australians are now regularly building bigger capacity engines beyond 2.5
Finally if you do want an engine, best go to the engine builder and deal with him direct. No point having a middle man to complicate communications and presumably take a percentage for his involvement.
A 2.5 is a very torquey unit but do not rely on the standard pistons for anything more than 350 bhp.
I have a couple of new, boxed US 2.5 STi blocks but I want them for our own use. Getting an unused 2.5 at the right price is a good starting point for a cost effective fast engine.
Don't wait until you break it in the false belief it won't cost a lot more to put right once it is broken. Once broken as opposed to being in reasonable running order substantially adds to the cost of rebuild. Just start by adding modine and oil pump.
The Australians are now regularly building bigger capacity engines beyond 2.5
Finally if you do want an engine, best go to the engine builder and deal with him direct. No point having a middle man to complicate communications and presumably take a percentage for his involvement.
It is proving a little tricky, but we reckon it'll be a winner.
29 January 2010, 10:19 AM
#48
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2.5 [ EJ257 version ] does in fact have thin liners and definitely cannot be bored oversize ever without liners fitted.
We use a NEW 2.5 block on all power builds and have found that 1.8 bar and 500 /520 ish horsepower is fine for say 30,000 miles of spirited road use and occasional drag / track. That works well for us and our customers.
We do liner blocks, but there is a mismatch between the expansion / contraction rate of the steel [ or whatever ] liner and the alloy block. So the block needs a few heat cycles to get itself sorted out and at that point it'll either blow a head gasket, or be OK.
If the head gasket goes, then it is a strip and skim the block top and re-assemble. Annoying, unavoidable, time consuming and expensive. BUT once skimmed seems fine ever after.
We actually set our liners proud of the alloy block and that also seems a solution, as ones we have checked subsequently are about dead flush after the heat cycle process. Zen upgraded one of our flush linered 2.5 's a year or two back and advised then that the block had settled by 2 or 3 thou. It hadn't yet caused a problem, but they skimmed it flush again and as far as l know, is behaving perfectly.
The 2.33 / 35 is the daddy of them all, but because of the block cost situation is the most costly.
There is a dimension in engine terms called ' oversquare ' and this is the ratio of bore diameter against the stroke length and if you go too far oversquare, like in a 2.5, because of the laws of physics it just doesn't work properly.
2.1 and 2.33 are a good size/ compromise in the oversquare dimension and as a consequence work extremely well.
The RCM 2.0 is based upon WRC technology carried to an extreme by Matt at RCM, to the point that it revs to over 10,000 [ and stays together ] It probably has bugger all torque, but wins, so who cares?
F1 cars have NO torque - 750 odd hp - but I'd be surprised if they have 200 ft lbs. The have no flywheel - the seven plate carbon clutch screws on the end of the crankshaft.
It is torque that makes a Subaru engine feel so strong and 2.1 / 2.33 have the ability on the right turbo to out-torque the 2.5 because of the 2.5 oversquare problem.
That help ?
David APi
Last edited by APIDavid; 29 January 2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Clarification
29 January 2010, 10:37 AM
#49
I had mine built running 475/460 at zens £5700 all in There are places now that can build you an engine for alot more and alot less but in life you get what you pay for..And in some cases you can get robbed ...
Get it in writing what they are going to do supply ect ect down to a thine line cause they often forget to mention a v.a.t and b the small items plugs belts oil and filter ect ect ..
Get it in writing what they are going to do supply ect ect down to a thine line cause they often forget to mention a v.a.t and b the small items plugs belts oil and filter ect ect ..
29 January 2010, 01:02 PM
#51
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I actually had a rebuild on my old STi V back in early 2000's & it was over £3k then! Doubt they've gone down in price ...Yeah you can get them done for pennies from some dodgy back street ramper garage, but i would rather pay a good price for a good job.
29 January 2010, 01:06 PM
#52
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29 January 2010, 01:32 PM
#53
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I had mine built running 475/460 at zens £5700 all in There are places now that can build you an engine for alot more and alot less but in life you get what you pay for..And in some cases you can get robbed ...
Get it in writing what they are going to do supply ect ect down to a thine line cause they often forget to mention a v.a.t and b the small items plugs belts oil and filter ect ect ..
Get it in writing what they are going to do supply ect ect down to a thine line cause they often forget to mention a v.a.t and b the small items plugs belts oil and filter ect ect ..
David
29 January 2010, 03:54 PM
#54
To answer the question properly.
2.5 [ EJ257 version ] does in fact have thin liners and definitely cannot be bored oversize ever without liners fitted.
We use a NEW 2.5 block on all power builds and have found that 1.8 bar and 500 /520 ish horsepower is fine for say 30,000 miles of spirited road use and occasional drag / track. That works well for us and our customers.
We do liner blocks, but there is a mismatch between the expansion / contraction rate of the steel [ or whatever ] liner and the alloy block. So the block needs a few heat cycles to get itself sorted out and at that point it'll either blow a head gasket, or be OK.
If the head gasket goes, then it is a strip and skim the block top and re-assemble. Annoying, unavoidable, time consuming and expensive. BUT once skimmed seems fine ever after.
We actually set our liners proud of the alloy block and that also seems a solution, as ones we have checked subsequently are about dead flush after the heat cycle process. Zen upgraded one of our flush linered 2.5 's a year or two back and advised then that the block had settled by 2 or 3 thou. It hadn't yet caused a problem, but they skimmed it flush again and as far as l know, is behaving perfectly.
The 2.33 / 35 is the daddy of them all, but because of the block cost situation is the most costly.
There is a dimension in engine terms called ' oversquare ' and this is the ratio of bore diameter against the stroke length and if you go too far oversquare, like in a 2.5, because of the laws of physics it just doesn't work properly.
2.1 and 2.33 are a good size/ compromise in the oversquare dimension and as a consequence work extremely well.
The RCM 2.0 is based upon WRC technology carried to an extreme by Matt at RCM, to the point that it revs to over 10,000 [ and stays together ] It probably has bugger all torque, but wins, so who cares?
F1 cars have NO torque - 750 odd hp - but I'd be surprised if they have 200 ft lbs. The have no flywheel - the seven plate carbon clutch screws on the end of the crankshaft.
It is torque that makes a Subaru engine feel so strong and 2.1 / 2.33 have the ability on the right turbo to out-torque the 2.5 because of the 2.5 oversquare problem.
That help ?
David APi
2.5 [ EJ257 version ] does in fact have thin liners and definitely cannot be bored oversize ever without liners fitted.
We use a NEW 2.5 block on all power builds and have found that 1.8 bar and 500 /520 ish horsepower is fine for say 30,000 miles of spirited road use and occasional drag / track. That works well for us and our customers.
We do liner blocks, but there is a mismatch between the expansion / contraction rate of the steel [ or whatever ] liner and the alloy block. So the block needs a few heat cycles to get itself sorted out and at that point it'll either blow a head gasket, or be OK.
If the head gasket goes, then it is a strip and skim the block top and re-assemble. Annoying, unavoidable, time consuming and expensive. BUT once skimmed seems fine ever after.
We actually set our liners proud of the alloy block and that also seems a solution, as ones we have checked subsequently are about dead flush after the heat cycle process. Zen upgraded one of our flush linered 2.5 's a year or two back and advised then that the block had settled by 2 or 3 thou. It hadn't yet caused a problem, but they skimmed it flush again and as far as l know, is behaving perfectly.
The 2.33 / 35 is the daddy of them all, but because of the block cost situation is the most costly.
There is a dimension in engine terms called ' oversquare ' and this is the ratio of bore diameter against the stroke length and if you go too far oversquare, like in a 2.5, because of the laws of physics it just doesn't work properly.
2.1 and 2.33 are a good size/ compromise in the oversquare dimension and as a consequence work extremely well.
The RCM 2.0 is based upon WRC technology carried to an extreme by Matt at RCM, to the point that it revs to over 10,000 [ and stays together ] It probably has bugger all torque, but wins, so who cares?
F1 cars have NO torque - 750 odd hp - but I'd be surprised if they have 200 ft lbs. The have no flywheel - the seven plate carbon clutch screws on the end of the crankshaft.
It is torque that makes a Subaru engine feel so strong and 2.1 / 2.33 have the ability on the right turbo to out-torque the 2.5 because of the 2.5 oversquare problem.
That help ?
David APi
Trev
Last edited by trevsjwood; 29 January 2010 at 03:56 PM.
01 February 2010, 08:18 PM
#56
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im thinkin of going for the 2.1 for now what price would it be all in and what power will it be at .....and any of you running one in there cars ? what do you think to it?
01 February 2010, 08:24 PM
#57
Its more of a better base for supporting mods, capable of well over 400bhp obviously need injectors, turbo, ecu ect for that sort of power
Though you will see an increase in torque. Theres a new thread in the members gallery and a few guys in there are running big numbers with theirs.
Theres a kit from Lateral at circa £1600, then the build itself i would expect to be looking at around £4k
Though you will see an increase in torque. Theres a new thread in the members gallery and a few guys in there are running big numbers with theirs.
Theres a kit from Lateral at circa £1600, then the build itself i would expect to be looking at around £4k
Last edited by DDS789; 01 February 2010 at 08:26 PM.
02 February 2010, 12:08 AM
#58
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Ok so 2.3 is the best balance of rev and torque but its most costly due to the block which is getting rare. Hasnt anyone stroked a 2.5 block to 2./4? or can it not be done?
With regards to the liners cracker on a 2.5 block. i thought i read on here that Crawford performance had done a shed load of testing the ej257 and found that using the right pistons with a certain dish capacity they can produce a better burn rate - thus their TA car runs over 700hp on a ej257?
i think my next engine will be ej257 based
With regards to the liners cracker on a 2.5 block. i thought i read on here that Crawford performance had done a shed load of testing the ej257 and found that using the right pistons with a certain dish capacity they can produce a better burn rate - thus their TA car runs over 700hp on a ej257?
i think my next engine will be ej257 based
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