f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Allowed it? She created it. Created it precisely to allow MPs to be paid a lot more than they were by making ludicrous exepenses claims like 2nd homes and having their partners as their secretary ... the only difference between then and now is they got caught!!!!!

Dingdongler

People keep harping on about minimum wage, is that all you can think of when it comes to the accomplishments of this government?

The sum total of 10 years in govt = minimum wage? I've forgotten the exact statistic but weren't a huge proportion of the new jobs created under new Labour taken by immigrants?
Wouldn't that perhaps imply that the biggest beneficiaries of minimum wage are recent immigrants. I'm not saying I would want to see them abused, but that means perhaps they are better off, not the indigenous working class I think you have all been referring to.

SunnySideUp

A quick google will enlighten you,

HEALTH:-

80,000 more nurses
35,000 more doctors, including 5,300 extra family GPs
4,500 more dentists
Labour brought back Matrons to our hospitals - now more than 5,530 in England
Record numbers of operations performed on the NHS
The largest hospital building programme since the NHS began: 149 new hospitals built or in the pipeline
We introduced NHS Direct to offer free advice on health
Maximum waiting times cut to just 18 weeks from referral to treatment
Deaths from heart disease down 40%, cancer mortality down 17%
Nurses pay increased by 58%

CRIME:-

Overall crime is down 32% since 1997 according to independent statistics
14,000 more police officers on the streets, up 11% since 1997
A Safer Neighbourhood Team for every area in England & Wales
Police pay up 27% in real terms
PCSOs and special constables on patrol to complement the work of ordinary officers
Successful convictions up 40% between 2002 and 2006
Re-offending rates are down: 11% for adults and 17% for juvenile offenders between 2000 and 2005
ASBOs and Dispersal Orders introduced to improve communities


PENSIONERS:-

One million pensioners lifted out of poverty since 1997
Tax free personal allowances for pensioners now at least £9,030
Pension Credit to guarantee a weekly income of at least £124 or £189 for couples
Free bus travel nationwide for the over 60s
Free NHS prescriptions and eye sight tests for the over 60s
From 2009, everyone over 60 will have free access to local swimming pools
Free television licences for the over 75s
The tax-free Winter Fuel Payment to every pensioner household. Now worth £250 for the over 60s, or £400 for the over 80s
1.4 million pensioner households benefitting from the Warm Front scheme, which provides central heating installation, insulation and energy saving advice

ENVIRONMENT:-

We signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1997. We are on track to more than double our targets: that's a 23.6% cut in our 1990 emissions level by 2012
Our Climate Change Bill is the first of its kind anywhere in the world, and will legally commit the UK to reducing CO2 emissions by at least 60% by 2050
By 2016 all new homes built will be zero-carbon. By 2019 all new non-domestic buildings will also be zero-carbon
Old style light bulbs will be withdrawn from sale from 2008
The Climate Change Levy saves 6 millon tonnes of CO2 per year, and is encouraging businesses to be greener
Changes to Vehicle Excise Duty mean that sales of low-emission cars now outstrips gas guzzlers
The UK inow has the cleanest beaches, rivers, drinking water and air than at any time since before the industrial revolution

EDUCATION:-

36,000 more teachers than in 1997
172,00 more classroom assistants
1,100 new schools built or old schools rebuilt
Funding per pupil has doubled since 1997
We built 2,300 Sure Start children's centres to provide childcare, early learning education, play facilities, parental advice and support for working families
More university students recieving a non-repayable grant than at any other time in history
One third of all new students get a full grant for tuition and maintenance, and another third get a partial grant
Teachers' pay increased by more than 40%
Record numbers in further and higher education
More students receiving a university grant than at any other time in history

ECONOMY:-

The lowest basic rate of income tax in 75 years
Fewer working days lost due to industrial action than under the previous government
Independence for the Bank of England to set interest rates and control inflation
The National Minimum Wage now guarantees an income for the low-paid. Since we introduced it in 1999, we have increased it by 59%
Three million extra jobs created since 1997

TRANSPORT:-

Investment in railways now 2.5 times higher than in 1997
1600 more train journeys. Train delays cut by 17%
Free bus travel for pensioners and disabled people

FAMILIES:-

Child Poverty halved from 3.6 million in 1998 to 1.6 million
Child Benefit increased by 26% since 1997
Families with children now on average £,1800 a year better off - the poorest families are nearly £4,500 per year better off
Child Trust Funds introduced by Labour, to give children future financial security
Free milk, fruit and vegetables for schoolchildren and healthy school meals for all.
Paid maternity leave increased to 52 weeks
Paid paternity leave for the first time

----------------------------------------------

Now, I don't like this Government - but don't ever be fooled into thinking they have done nothing .... no mention above of NI, Sierra Leone, etc. etc. etc.

It is this record they should be judged on - not a simplistic 'Change' cry .... if you don't agree with the above then dump then ... if you do, vote for more of the same.

Be very aware, though, that the option is a Tory Government ... which should make everyone shudder in their boots. Don't say I didn't warn you when you come on here saying that the 'Old Labour Days' were better!

Dingdongler

78.4% of statistics are misleading, as they say.

Is productivity in the NHS up? No.

Our cancer survival rates are still one of the lowest in the western world.

Do people feel safer on the streets? No

Do people feel there are enough police on the streets? No

Do people feel that criminals and those that take part in anti social behaviour are treated effectively by the courts? No

Do people feel the trains run better? No

Do people feel are airport's compare well with other developed (or even so called third world) countries airports? No

Ask employers, and their representative bodies (CBI etc) and University deans what they think of educashun. Kids coming out of school with top grades can't reed, right or count.(sp was a joke btw)

Asked the pensioners who had their pensions raided by Gordon, and those that now get 2% on their savings if they feel better off.

I could go on and on, but can't be bothered. All you've done is give out party spin

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Pete: I note your use of "We" throughout that diatribe of spin. Are you finally admitting being a Labour supporter/member of the Labour Party, or is it just a cut and paste?

I'm certainly not going to go through the whole lot debunking it, but will take one small part:

Transport.
The investment in Raliways may be 2.5 times what it was under the Tories, but even THAT buys 4 times less than it did, making a nett DECREASE in investment. You only have to look at how many electrification schemes have been completed under the Lying Labour: three short ones in Scotland and HS1 which is almost all privately funded.
The Tories electrified London to Edinburgh, London to Norwich , London to Southend and London to Cambridge, Kings Lynn. Approximately TEN times what Lying Labour have funded.
Labour even started telling people that diesels were more efficient than elctrics to avoid having to do any more.

17% more trains on time? Not difficult, since TIMINGS have been relaxed massively in order that the operators can avoid "fines" from the regulator. Did you know that NO mainline journey in the UK is now faster than it was in 1980, and that most are 15% slower? And that trains are shorter and carry less eated passengers, many on long-haul trips pay to stand most of the way.......but hey, there are a few more trains in the SE so that's OK

Free bus travel? Yep, mostly paid for my Local Authorities, who are complaining that they can not afford it, since the promised funding never arrived. Another Labour lie!

I could go on, but I'm not going to bother. Student grants? Not in England mate, unless neither parent works.36,000 more teachers? Errrrrrr no. 36,000 DIFFERENT teachers, since quite a few left and/or retired in the Lying Labour years. Certainly NOT 36,000 more than in 1997!

All your copy and paste is either lies or spin.

Leslie

I think that Dingdongler, Ali and Chip and others got it about right.

It has always been apparent that when Labour or NL are in power that the economy goes down the tubes until we are knocking on bankruptcy and then the Conservatives have the long battle to get it back on its feet.

NL won the elections because Flash basically frittered away the strong economy that NL inherited and kept borrowing to make the economy look good. Together with the bankers' gross ineptitude and the lack of action by the FSA in monitoring them, we are in debt now for many years to come. NL have effectively spent our grandchildrens' money already! We can only look forward to comparatively hard times in the future whichever party is in power. Historically, the Conservatives are the only party we can trust to recover the economy eventually.

"Dave" I believe has scored an own goal by saying that he will not now give us the referendum that we were promised by both parties over the Lisbon so called treaty which has virtually federated the Eu countries. That is another threat on the horizon, it will not be good to be ruled by the Eu since our democracy will disappear in all but lip service! He could still give us that referendum and act on the result!

Maggie did stand up for this country in all respects What she did was what she thought was for our good. Since NL came into power that has gone well and truly out of the window, in fact the opposite is true since NL hate the thought of Great Britain anyway!

NL has deliberately undermined our country and is doing its best to destroy our culture and traditions. We have descended into the depths of degradation and depravity which is all part of their plan to enable them to control us in every respect. They have been laying the ground rules and the devices they need for that.

Another NL government will mean the loss of our country!

Les

David Lock

Thatcher was a bully but that was what was needed at the time. She did sort a lot of very major and difficult problems out, especially the union stranglehold. Misjudged some things like the poll tax though. In general I think the Tories at the time had more character and clout, especially compared to Brown's bunch of wimpy schoolboy yes-men. But in my book Thatcher was responsible for the "get what you can" philosophy which carries on today to society's detriment.

Blair did, of course, change the whole party into something that was actually electable. He was a more presidential type leader and influenced by key figures like Alistair Campbell who felt that the electorate were a bunch of thickos that got in the way.

But the war. I don't actually think legality was such a big deal. Perhaps at the beginning he thought he could emulate Thatcher's Falklands achievement. And it's hard to say no to the USA.

In a way they were both in the right place when needed.

Thatcher was very suspicious of Europe so that gets my deciding vote.

dl

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

There's a very important factor you missed out. Thatcher's government was extremely wealthy due to North sea oil revenue. No government before, ever had it so good. With all this extra money coming in, she could have put the "Great" back into Great Britain, but she didn't.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/table11_11.pdf

Xx-IAN-xX

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Please do


Britain All Revved Up - TIME

Leslie

Interesting article.

Les

SunnySideUp

Les

You have stated on many occassions, and I quote, "NL won the elections because Flash basically frittered away the strong economy that NL inherited and kept borrowing to make the economy look good"

It may interest you to know that, under Gordon Browns handling of the economy, the UK paid back all the debt run up by the Tories!

Yes, we are borrowing to get out of a worldwide hole ... but that makes sense.

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

According to the now defunct national statistics commission, between 1997 and 2007, 81% of UK jobs went to workers born outside the UK.

I read somewhere recently that this was deliberately engineered by the government.

SunnySideUp

The 'we' is the result of the cut'n'paste ...... it's interesting to see how much Labour have succeeded, however the information was posted - shocked me, to be honest .... they look much more electable looking through it!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Really? You don't think that lot is bad enough. Maybe you did alright under her leadership and let's face it that is what she was about ... the "I'm alright Jack" attitude. Hence perhaps you are a product of her social engineering.

Remember when she said there is no such thing as society? Well if she had been allowed to carry on there sure wouldn't have been. As it is her government and this one have destroyed many of the good things about British society and they can never be brought back.

SunnySideUp

Not my words, but pretty good!

"In the wake of the implosion of the financial free-for-all and corporate engorgement she unleashed, the Thatcherite diehards are struggling to rescue her name from a legacy of greed, entrenched inequality and economic failure. Her "principles of capitalism are under question," wails Maurice Saatchi, the man who gave us the "Labour isn't working" slogan in 1979 – before his heroine tripled unemployment. A Billy Elliot version of history has made Thatcher a "boo-word in British politics", London's mayor Boris Johnson bleats.

The fact is the historical era that began in 1979 followed a prolonged period of crisis and the gradual emergence of a powerful intellectual current around the New Right. The current crisis, by contrast, erupted into a comparative political vacuum – which is why Thatcher's former private secretary Charles Powell still feels able to insist that the "Thatcher settlement remains largely intact". But that settlement has demonstrably failed. A "sea-change in politics", of the kind that Callaghan *privately identified in the last days of the 1979 general election campaign, is once again taking place. Whoever grasps that must eventually shape the politics of the years to come"

Xx-IAN-xX

Like what

GlesgaKiss

There no such thing as a perfect government. Thatcher was before my time really, so wouldn't want to comment, but from what I've seen she had *****. That's something NL are missing big time. And all these people complaining about a 'take what you can get' attitude... how do you think Britain became Great in the first place? It was by taking what we wanted.

FWIW I think we should declare war on France again. They're so smug now, and taking their money would fill a bit of a gap over here.

What happened to slaves as well? We just don't use enough of them these days.

Leslie

According to various reports, they inherited a strong economy in '97 and the national debt was reduced for 4 years and since then has continued to increase as shown once Flash really started to spend on the "plastic"!

Our present interest payments on the debt are £42.9 billion annually plus the PFI costs of some £5 billion.

Is that good Pete? Does not look healthy to me!

Les

Britain's Budget Deficit

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Labour - The Party for the 'I Can't Be Arsed - I Deserve It Anyways". Those who work to benefit this society get nothing, those who do nothing get everything.

They have made being unemployed and a breeding factory a valid career choice.

Anyone who works for a living who votes Labour while they continue to fritter away OUR taxes on the utterly ridiculous and unfair welfare state in this country is an idiot.

You can sit on your **** and breed like a rabbit and get thousands for your whole life - but work your entire life, become infirm and require continual nursing assistance you are made to sell everything you have in order to get a minimum amount of care.

Makes me absolutely &$£^ing sick.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Like people looking out for each other, like people caring about more than just themselves, like a stable family environment for most kids, like a proper work ethic, like respecting other decent people.......

Instead we now have greed is good and success is celebrated no matter what the cost or who got hurt on the way there.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yep another million and they will catch up with Thatcher's record, but a true test is the ability to do it when there is no world recession.... good old Thatch managed it with ease.

Xx-IAN-xX

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And how exactly is she to blame for the above

.[/quote] Instead we now have greed is good and success is celebrated no matter what the cost or who got hurt on the way there.[/quote]

whats wrong with success

Just rememeber what state the country was in before her reign of power , militant loonies out on strike at the drop of a hat. Strike Strike Strike the favourite words of the loony left

Snazy

lol, I just want to add the following

Get over her and move on eh!

Lets be realistic here, she ruled a VERY different country to the country we live in today, indeed in the world we live in today.

The IT generation cometh. Labour have had a good few years chomping on the bit now. Now its time for a change, with that I think 95% agree.

Comparing Thatcher to current or recent leaders, or blaming her for everything is pretty lame these days dont you think?

For the record... February 1st 2010! Move on

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Are you kidding? Dog eat dog, greed is good, I'm alright Jack - hardly the mantra for a caring society. Or how about encouraging people to buy houses, making house prices high and then bumpig interest rates to 16% meaning both parents in a lot of instances had to get a job thereby eating away at the fabric of family life.

My gripe is not with success but the manner in which it is achieved as was quite clearly stated in my post !!

Yep and she sorted that out by destroying manufacturing and promoting the financial services sector. Good move that!!!

Xx-IAN-xX

The manufacturing sector had alreadt been destroyed by militant unionists



I'm going to hazard a guess here ,your grandfather and father were both Labour supporters and its become a family tradition

Dingdongler

F1 fan, its always easy to associate Thatcher with 'dog eat dog' or 'I'm alright Jack' type slogans, she never said them and she never advocated them in the manner that you suggest.

she was very much about family and stabe relationships being the building blocks of a good country. Her mantra was for individuals to take responsibility of their lives and for the state to be 'small'

What she didn't want was to encourage people to sit around whilst the government spoon fed them, using the tax money of hard working members of society.

Under Thatcher hard workers could always prosper no matter what their background. I know lots of people who are examples of this, and none of them are anti society or bad neighbours or uncaring.

Jaybird-UK

Wearing these are we?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL, you have no idea how far you could be from the truth!!

I don't suipport Labour any more than you do, but I know who I hold responsible for a lot of the ills that this government have systematially failed to address.

30 plus years of shoddy governing.

No wonder we are in such a mess!!!