cster

Well thank f*ck for that. Can't stand them types.
Dyed in the wool Tory parents! - All is forgiven my son.

SunnySideUp

Are we back in that shed again?

Leslie

Wouldn't you instead prefer to have some trustworthy politicians, just for a change.

I remember when we still had a few of those!

Les

Devildog

f1_fan

Mate,

I wouldn't disagree that a lot of what you have posted makes sense, and, yes, Margaret Thatcher may well be one of Satan's spawn.

What you continually fail to address every time such a topic comes up, however, is that Britain needed someone like her to take the economy by the throat, and shake it so hard that all the crap fell away.

We needed someone to face the unions (who were crippling Britain to the extent of cataclysmic failure) head on.

We needed someone to instill a sense of "get of your **** and get out to work" attitude.

Like her, or loath her, she did a job that had to be done. Where successive governments have failed, is that they didn't build on the good she did, and address the inevitable side effects. You can't get rid of the cancer without destroying some good tissue, so to speak.

And that, to me, is where the responsibility lies. Thatcher got rid of the disease, but the aftercare was sadly lacking.

You've also posted about social values, and I quote "Like people looking out for each other, like people caring about more than just themselves, like a stable family environment for most kids, like a proper work ethic, like respecting other decent people....... "

Unless you were in your late teens or older when Thatcher was elected in 1979, which would make you, what, approaching 50 this year, your own experience of pre Thatcher social values will be very limited and probably a vague memory at best, and non existent at worst.

The same goes for SSU (despite his contentions of being old, he's actually around the same age as me IIRC)

The reality is that neither of you (unless F1 fan is over 50) would remember with any conviction what life was like pre Thatcher and therefore neither of you is qualified to comment.

What I can say, as a matter of fact, is that I felt a greater sense of personal security in the 80's and 90's than I do in today's society.

We may have lost "greed is good", but we're back to "the state owes me, the skank and the scum offspring a living, and **** you for making something of yourself" . Neither is favourable, but I know which I prefer.

Leslie

Devildog,

You would do well to consider the plans that the State has for us all in the future!

Les

Devildog

We all would Les, but I'm not sure of the context of your reply relative to my post?

SunnySideUp

This loads of cobblers renders the rest of your post pointless - if you cannot get that right (at least with respect to me) you cannot be expected to get much else right!

I'm far older than you and, therefore, can and will speak of my experiences under all manner of Governments!

Devildog

Pete,

You're not 70 - get over yourself.

If you want to call me out on this - how old are you? Truthfully, and preferrably with proof.

Time to put up or **** off mate

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Devildog,

Thanks for your lucid and well reasoned post, I will respond in more detail later.

For the record I am nearly 50 so can remember some of the good and the bad of pre-Thatcher UK.

dpb

This is about the time Pete will trot out his usual line Devildog

...'I dont have to prove anything to anyone on this forum or anywhere on the net................

yada yada >>> insert bull**** << '

- hes sloped off already i note

cster

He's Iranian innit?

SunnySideUp

Pardon me?

YOU stated that I wasn't old enough to remember Thatcher ...... your exact words were, "The reality is that neither of you (unless F1 fan is over 50) would remember with any conviction what life was like pre Thatcher and therefore neither of you is qualified to comment"

Which I pointed out to be incorrect ... it is for YOU to back up your claims that I am not old enough to comment.

I shall be awaiting your evidence, but we all know you are full of wind - so, we won't actually get any will we?

SunnySideUp

You're DevilDog's bitch ... aren't you?

boomer

That's a dubble deja voooo in the same thread!

We are still awaiting your evidence (from almost exactly 40 months ago), but we all know you are full of wind - so, we won't actually get any will we?

Pots, kettles, non-reflective light absorbing surfaces

mb

SunnySideUp

Come back when you can spell DOUBLE properly ... I refuse to enter into an intellectual debate when you have one hand tied behind your back

Anyway ... it's about Maggie versus Blair - stay on topic

Lee247

Is he

You have no idea how old I am, nor Pete for that matter.

Pete, usual place

boomer

Shame you didn't spot the intentional mis-spelling of "vu" in either of my posts either, nor the missing accents (see your "Peter and Jane go to France" book and look up "déjà vu").

mb

Devildog

LOL Pete, you can't even get it right when the quote is right there with you.

What part of "what life was like pre Thatcher" did you miss? No, I didn't state that you were not old enough to remember Thatcher. I'd suggest that you "must try harder", but I suspect you don't have much more to come

I struggle to remember with any real clarity what life (not mine, but the UK as a whole) was like during the Thatcher years, however pre Thatcher was over 30 years ago. Events yes, but the socio-economic conditions prevelant at the time, across a broad enough section of society to pass reasoned comment rather than just rant that "the bitch screwed the mining families over"? No.

To make a reasoned judgement on what it was like pre Thatcher, you're going to have to have considered several years, so we are now looking at having a sound personal recollection of conditions from 30 to 40 years ago.

If you are around the age I believe you to be (gleaned from being on this site for a decade) then you would quite understandably be struggling to really grasp the whole socio-economic conditions prevelant at the time.

If you are the age you asserted you were ("over 70") when you first posted on here, that would make you in your 80s. And you expect anyone to believe that you have a fresh memory from nearly 40 years ago?

And If you are somewhere in between, the same applies. 30 - 40 years ago is just too long for anyone to be able to comment with any real clarity and, importantly, without subsequent events and a large dose of nostalgia seriously clouding your judgement.

Even if you were pushing 50, are you going to tell me that you were fully aware, and have a clear memory, of the social and economic conditions prevelant when you were between 10 and 19? I doubt you can even convince yourself of that Pete, let alone even the most naive on here.

At nearly 50, f1 fan would be from zero to 19 in the pre Thatcher years, and again, its going to be a difficult argument to convince me that someone of that age, that long ago, is going to have either a clear memory or understanding on a large enough scale to pass reasoned comment, other than just "as I remember it" when I was a teenager.

Come back with what you want, I doubt anyone is going to take anything you post with any credibility

Leslie

Yes I wrote it badly. I do remember pre Thatcher times and I broadly agree with what you said in your post with reference to what she achieved in her time.

My remark was aimed more at others than you in fact although it did not look like it and was meant to underline what this traitorous bunch have got in mind for the people of this country should they hold onto power.

Les