I want to stay with Subaru .... but ....
20 February 2010, 12:19 PM
#31
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I second what Tim has said about the Mk1 Focus ST....... great performance car for the money! Also the Mk2's are now being sold at good value second hand...... it may not be an RS, but it aint too far behind and drives really really well.
20 February 2010, 12:24 PM
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Pete, if you can get over the "hairdresser" image the little Mixer is a awesome toy. Hugely rated by true motoring types. I had a Mk2.5 1.8 Sport with a 6 speed, LSD's, Bilstein's and full leather. Parts are cheap and they are very reliable.
Mk3's are now down to sub £10 at dealers with Warranties. Go and have a look.
Mk3's are now down to sub £10 at dealers with Warranties. Go and have a look.
I have a MK1 in the garage and a MK3 on the drive .... indeed I have just this minute got in from giving the MK3 a service 
I am thinking of buying another ... that's all - so, the space is running out.
20 February 2010, 12:31 PM
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Sunnysideup - i have a GB270 wagon and can recommend one if you can find one. OK the running costs are no better but depreciation will be OK and in my opinion they look great. still have a sporty edge, good tuning potential but under the radar enough for oldies like us. I have a classic too and the wifes BMW X3 so all bases covered. You can have your classic for weeknd fun, the wagon for everyday smoking around with the practicality. I am in cheshire so if you are close you can come and have a look if you like.
Matt
Matt
That's a good idea about the GB270 Wagon ... I looked at them at Goodwood Festival of Speed when I was there as a guest of the SWRT - I do remember thinking they looked great
Not sure how often good ones appear for sale?
20 February 2010, 12:40 PM
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Pete, alternatives for you to consider:
Focus ST then get the Mountune conversion (an officially sanctioned PPP alike which leaves a full warranty intact) actually has more torque than the RS, and isn't as hardcore...Ford's equivalent to the WRXS basically.
Second hand Alpina D3 Touring, diesel, rwd and one of the best chassis around with a stunning engine
Focus ST then get the Mountune conversion (an officially sanctioned PPP alike which leaves a full warranty intact) actually has more torque than the RS, and isn't as hardcore...Ford's equivalent to the WRXS basically.
Second hand Alpina D3 Touring, diesel, rwd and one of the best chassis around with a stunning engine
I'm still not sure whether to keep the Classic going for another few years or have a change ... it's spring and I always get like this, once I get past May I will settle down and enjoy what I have
20 February 2010, 04:00 PM
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... it's very difficult ...
Looked at the WRX and WRXS ... boot room is pathetic, yes I know it has a rear axle and I know I'm not supposed to be sensible when thinking about an Impreza ..... but, lets look at what these cars actually are these days.
It's a HatchBack - I don't mind that, the WRXS looks great on its Anthracite wheels and with its STi bits and bobs. It's fast, no doubt. It's a bit wallowy/soft. It's £21,450, it's got no boot worth speaking of. Yet still I want to want one!
Looked at the Focus RS ... nice, bucket seats would be a real issue for my bottom though ... and £26000 or thereabouts. But great boot space!
Looked at the Astra and Mazda 3 MPS .... decent boots, decent power - about £20,000 before haggling. But a bit 'kiddie' for an old git like me?
Just come back from accidentally wandering into a Skoda dealership ... oh, dear!! Did you know that the Octavia vRS looks like a Saloon, but actually is a hatchback with a HUGE boot space? Cos I didn't!!
The Skoda vRS comes in a Diesel or Petrol - the diesel returns 61mpg on a run The petrol is an impressive 48mpg Road Tax is £125 for the Diesel and £175 for the petrol .... the Impreza is, what? £405 each and every year (and we just know that the next budget will see that hiked to around £600 ... or more!).
The Skoda vRS Petrol with 200BHP is now available at £16,283 - before any haggling! The Skoda salesman also offered me a vRS Diesel, 2007, for a screen price of £10,000 (that's £9250 after I get to work) with 1 year warranty ........ how the hell can you argue against those figures?
So, yes, I really would like an Impreza Hatchback - probably a WRXS .... but at £21,500 and £405 a year tax and 20mpg and tiny boot and with residuals falling through the floor ..... surely I would be completely mad to do so?
Unless, of course, you know better?
Looked at the WRX and WRXS ... boot room is pathetic, yes I know it has a rear axle and I know I'm not supposed to be sensible when thinking about an Impreza ..... but, lets look at what these cars actually are these days.
It's a HatchBack - I don't mind that, the WRXS looks great on its Anthracite wheels and with its STi bits and bobs. It's fast, no doubt. It's a bit wallowy/soft. It's £21,450, it's got no boot worth speaking of. Yet still I want to want one!
Looked at the Focus RS ... nice, bucket seats would be a real issue for my bottom though ... and £26000 or thereabouts. But great boot space!
Looked at the Astra and Mazda 3 MPS .... decent boots, decent power - about £20,000 before haggling. But a bit 'kiddie' for an old git like me?
Just come back from accidentally wandering into a Skoda dealership ... oh, dear!! Did you know that the Octavia vRS looks like a Saloon, but actually is a hatchback with a HUGE boot space? Cos I didn't!!
The Skoda vRS comes in a Diesel or Petrol - the diesel returns 61mpg on a run
The petrol is an impressive 48mpg Road Tax is £125 for the Diesel and £175 for the petrol .... the Impreza is, what? £405 each and every year (and we just know that the next budget will see that hiked to around £600 ... or more!).The Skoda vRS Petrol with 200BHP is now available at £16,283 - before any haggling!
The Skoda salesman also offered me a vRS Diesel, 2007, for a screen price of £10,000 (that's £9250 after I get to work) with 1 year warranty ........ how the hell can you argue against those figures? So, yes, I really would like an Impreza Hatchback - probably a WRXS .... but at £21,500 and £405 a year tax and 20mpg and tiny boot and with residuals falling through the floor ..... surely I would be completely mad to do so?
Unless, of course, you know better?
a mate has the diesel vRS and that is a seriously impressive car, on the move it really shifts but is comfortable and you just ride on a wave of torque. very easy to drive and very un-diesel like, nice and quiet for a start!
personally i'd buy the skoda, infact i nearly did
when i sell up it'll be the first car i look at
20 February 2010, 05:12 PM
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some police forces have used the octavia vrs quite successfully they are roomy fast tunable and usually retrun good miles per I used too have a leon fr which was played with put out around 225 and was really lethal in the wet thats why i came over to scoobs...
20 February 2010, 05:20 PM
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Depends on what counts?
The ST, and indeed the RS are very quick cars, that were built to please the driver.
HOWEVER, they are not 4wd, which means the driving experience will always be very different. Please, note...I am not saying boring or inferior, just different.
Me? I just cannot get excited about any 2wd car.
20 February 2010, 05:36 PM
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Well, yes I love the AWD of the Impreza .... but, the costs are just silly now.
I had a 2wd Calibra - loved it, 150BHP of pure classic good looks.
Had a Primera GT 150BHP 2wd - fully loaded - went well .... simply did not impress me - hence my slight reluctance to go Skoda vRS - is it too ordinary?? The Primera was a very good car but didn't stir my soul, would the vRS be the same?
I had a 2wd Calibra - loved it, 150BHP of pure classic good looks.
Had a Primera GT 150BHP 2wd - fully loaded - went well .... simply did not impress me - hence my slight reluctance to go Skoda vRS - is it too ordinary?? The Primera was a very good car but didn't stir my soul, would the vRS be the same?
20 February 2010, 05:44 PM
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Just been offered a brand new petrol Octavia vRS 200BHP for £15,248 OTR ... with a new 10 Plate and zero miles
Holy cr4p ..... no wonder Subaru Impreza's aren't selling in any numbers - poor Subaru
Holy cr4p ..... no wonder Subaru Impreza's aren't selling in any numbers - poor Subaru
20 February 2010, 08:30 PM
#42
That is a seriously strong offer on a new car with VAG build quality and dealer support
However, you do need to try driving both the Focus and the Octavia, to see which you prefer. I loved my original shape Focus TDCi, the chassis was so biddable and fun, so not your typical front driver, and the ST 5 pot sounds absolutely great, with pops and bangs on the overrun. Apparently the exhaust system was specifically design to mimic the original ur Quattro...While the Octavia is a great car it just lacks that certain sparkle to make you want to go out for a drive.
20 February 2010, 08:40 PM
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Has the salesman got his arm back after you swallowed it right up to his pit
That is a seriously strong offer on a new car with VAG build quality and dealer support
However, you do need to try driving both the Focus and the Octavia, to see which you prefer. I loved my original shape Focus TDCi, the chassis was so biddable and fun, so not your typical front driver, and the ST 5 pot sounds absolutely great, with pops and bangs on the overrun. Apparently the exhaust system was specifically design to mimic the original ur Quattro...While the Octavia is a great car it just lacks that certain sparkle to make you want to go out for a drive.
That is a seriously strong offer on a new car with VAG build quality and dealer support
However, you do need to try driving both the Focus and the Octavia, to see which you prefer. I loved my original shape Focus TDCi, the chassis was so biddable and fun, so not your typical front driver, and the ST 5 pot sounds absolutely great, with pops and bangs on the overrun. Apparently the exhaust system was specifically design to mimic the original ur Quattro...While the Octavia is a great car it just lacks that certain sparkle to make you want to go out for a drive.
if yo get the new TSI vRS, they are even more tunable than the TFSI one i have. stage 1 remap fromn 200 to 250Hp, my TFSI was 200-240HP
21 February 2010, 02:23 PM
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... it's very difficult ...
The Skoda vRS comes in a Diesel or Petrol - the diesel returns 61mpg on a run The petrol is an impressive 48mpg Road Tax is £125 for the Diesel and £175 for the petrol .... the Impreza is, what? £405 each and every year (and we just know that the next budget will see that hiked to around £600 ... or more!).
So, yes, I really would like an Impreza Hatchback - probably a WRXS .... but at £21,500 and £405 a year tax and 20mpg and tiny boot and with residuals falling through the floor ..... surely I would be completely mad to do so?
Unless, of course, you know better?
The Skoda vRS comes in a Diesel or Petrol - the diesel returns 61mpg on a run
The petrol is an impressive 48mpg Road Tax is £125 for the Diesel and £175 for the petrol .... the Impreza is, what? £405 each and every year (and we just know that the next budget will see that hiked to around £600 ... or more!).So, yes, I really would like an Impreza Hatchback - probably a WRXS .... but at £21,500 and £405 a year tax and 20mpg and tiny boot and with residuals falling through the floor ..... surely I would be completely mad to do so?
Unless, of course, you know better?
The petrol VRs official mpg is 37.7 and the diesel is 49.6. A WRXS is 24.6 (although an STi is 27.4
).I know you would never touch an import, but the Litchfield Impreza GT has the 2 litre engine which does 30+mpg (officially) and is not in the top tax bracket. This doesn't solve your boot niggle, but from experience, you will not get the same pride from a Skoda as from a Subaru. VAG cars are nowhere near as reliable as people think.
Personally, I would go for a Mazda 3 MPS. Has the rock solid reliability and build you are used to with the practicality, performance and value you want. Go nearly new for the best VFM.
21 February 2010, 06:25 PM
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It was the turn of a Honda Civic Type R today ... very nice and a MASSIVE deep boot space, that curved glass screen gives even more room for the dog! The interior was like the bidge off the Starship Enterprise!! Nice, very nice - but at £18,500 not the bargain that the Octavia is.
Then I went to see the Focus ... not an ST in the showroom, but a silver zetec 1.8 - reduced from £19,000 down to £12,000 just today, for me, if I wanted to sign there and then ...... I was seriously tempted, good god, it was a very nice car!! For £12,000 brand new!? I must say, the showroom was busy and he had hardly anything left - inside or outside!!
Then I went to see the Focus ... not an ST in the showroom, but a silver zetec 1.8 - reduced from £19,000 down to £12,000 just today, for me, if I wanted to sign there and then ...... I was seriously tempted, good god, it was a very nice car!! For £12,000 brand new!?
I must say, the showroom was busy and he had hardly anything left - inside or outside!!
Last edited by SunnySideUp; 21 February 2010 at 06:30 PM.
21 February 2010, 07:34 PM
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It was the turn of a Honda Civic Type R today ... very nice and a MASSIVE deep boot space, that curved glass screen gives even more room for the dog! The interior was like the bidge off the Starship Enterprise!! Nice, very nice - but at £18,500 not the bargain that the Octavia is.
Possibly the worst car I've ever driven.
Zero visibility out the back (as featured on 'The One Show' this week as being one of worst cars for this that 'Which? magazine has tested). No rear wiper makes reversing in the rain not possible!
I like a hard ride (ooer, missus), but the Type R left me battered after a short blast down a Fen road.
I found the dashboard a mess. I use the rev counter, so constantly looking up and down at the speedo to tacho is a ballache. Even the heater is not simple to use, although no doubt you'd get used to it.
Did like the engine, though, which I wasn't expecting to, but as it wasn't my car (or petrol), I didn't mind red lining it in every gear (the only way to drive them). Having said that, it wasn't as gutless low down as the torque figures would suggest.
I've been told the old model is a better car, with more room and a better rear suspension set-up, but I've not driven one.
21 February 2010, 08:24 PM
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Whats happened to the rumured STI TDI Subaru were said to be working on?
i.e STI packaged more powerful boxer diesel.
The Octavia does have a great boot space.
Hawkeye models I think are currently underated,but residuals could rise, esp. since the next model is "the hatchback"
I moved on from a P1 to Hawkeye estate, nice car,quiet stealth speed, mines a PPP one with lovely torquey engine.
GB270 would be a fab buy.
i.e STI packaged more powerful boxer diesel.
The Octavia does have a great boot space.
Hawkeye models I think are currently underated,but residuals could rise, esp. since the next model is "the hatchback"
I moved on from a P1 to Hawkeye estate, nice car,quiet stealth speed, mines a PPP one with lovely torquey engine.
GB270 would be a fab buy.
21 February 2010, 11:56 PM
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I looked at an R32 as well as the hatch. The boot in the hatch is bigger than the R32 as it is also affected by 4WD running gear.
Hatch boot is actually relatively good and fits most stuff and the seats go down.
Brilliant car all round.
Hatch boot is actually relatively good and fits most stuff and the seats go down.
Brilliant car all round.
21 February 2010, 11:57 PM
#52
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I'm now starting to think HawkEye Wagon ..... but I need one from someone like me, so it must be original and properly run-in ... with no sign of mickey mouse KockLinks!! 
22 February 2010, 04:00 AM
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hatchback
ive got a feeling that the hatchback will soon get a serious makeover. remember the bugeye - had such an impact on NCS that they hastily revamped it.
the hatch (as nice looking as it is) has been commercial suicide for subaru. its not that fast (apart from the 330s), its impractical, its poor on fuel, its expensive to insure and tax and serving schedules are way out for madern machinery.
I think the only buyers are die hard subaru fans desperately trying to find a reason to beleive in the good old days. Alas no more. tech has progressed massively and subaru seem to be repackaging old news i'm afraid.
Matt
the hatch (as nice looking as it is) has been commercial suicide for subaru. its not that fast (apart from the 330s), its impractical, its poor on fuel, its expensive to insure and tax and serving schedules are way out for madern machinery.
I think the only buyers are die hard subaru fans desperately trying to find a reason to beleive in the good old days. Alas no more. tech has progressed massively and subaru seem to be repackaging old news i'm afraid.
Matt
Performance - “not that fast apart from the 330s” thus making the STi and the WRXS slow – compared to what?
Practicality – “impractical”, the whole ethos of the hatchback is practicality.
Fuel consumption – “Poor on fuel”, I have a STi and it’s pretty good for the class (currently 28mpg); much better than the Focus ST, so coveted in this very thread (the ST was my previous car).
Insurance – “expensive”, £350 for me and the wife, pretty good I think.
Tax - admittedly this is “expensive” at £405 PA, but in the great scheme of things not exactly a deal breaker is it.
And do you mean “servicing schedules are way out for modern machinery” – Not sure what you are implying but, I assume that the WRXS must have crazy service intervals as I know the STi does not. Unless you think once per year is "way out". Service pricing is slightly cheaper than the Ford.
Please don’t think I’m having a go at you or your opinion, I’m just interested to know what you base your observations on, and especially things like the hatch is old tech. I’ll be buying another new car in about 6 to 8 months and if the STi is so far behind the competition I’ll be shocked and doing a lot of test driving.
Last edited by John Hughes; 22 February 2010 at 04:07 AM.
22 February 2010, 09:22 AM
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The simple answer is that it will not always be a £20,000 car - will it?
In 3 years it will be a £9,500 car .... and in 5 years it will be a £5,000 car - then, £405 a year WILL be a major issue in the resale value! We all know that it will not be £405 for long - it will double to £900 to remove our poluting cars off the road.
Try selling a 5 year old Impreza when the road tax is 20% of the cars value?!
When buying a new car - for however much - it pays to think ahead and do your sums ...... just saying £405 is nothing therefore I shouldn't factor it in is niaive IMO.
22 February 2010, 11:17 AM
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Strange question?
The simple answer is that it will not always be a £20,000 car - will it?
In 3 years it will be a £9,500 car .... and in 5 years it will be a £5,000 car - then, £405 a year WILL be a major issue in the resale value! We all know that it will not be £405 for long - it will double to £900 to remove our poluting cars off the road.
Try selling a 5 year old Impreza when the road tax is 20% of the cars value?!
When buying a new car - for however much - it pays to think ahead and do your sums ...... just saying £405 is nothing therefore I shouldn't factor it in is niaive IMO.
The simple answer is that it will not always be a £20,000 car - will it?
In 3 years it will be a £9,500 car .... and in 5 years it will be a £5,000 car - then, £405 a year WILL be a major issue in the resale value! We all know that it will not be £405 for long - it will double to £900 to remove our poluting cars off the road.
Try selling a 5 year old Impreza when the road tax is 20% of the cars value?!
When buying a new car - for however much - it pays to think ahead and do your sums ...... just saying £405 is nothing therefore I shouldn't factor it in is niaive IMO.
personally it's this first year rate that would put me off a new high performance car, £950 just to drive it away? **** off.
as it goes though, the vRS diesel is very cheap to tax, even the first year rate is no different. didn't realise the skoda and WRX were so different in tax brackets until i looked, that's a serious saving there!
22 February 2010, 01:44 PM
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I know!!
A vRS Road Tax at £125 - WRX at £405 ... current prices. We know that the £405 rate will be hiked massively.
Over 10 years that's a £2800 difference - you need to earn £4200 to get that!
Fuel is another area worth a mention - 50mpg versus 25mpg - given 12,000 miles per year - over 10 years that would be a difference of over £13,000 ... you need to earn £19,500 to get that!
Using the head, the Impreza is dead in the water .... luckily we have a heart as well, but it's damned expensive following that!
A vRS Road Tax at £125 - WRX at £405 ... current prices. We know that the £405 rate will be hiked massively.
Over 10 years that's a £2800 difference - you need to earn £4200 to get that!
Fuel is another area worth a mention - 50mpg versus 25mpg - given 12,000 miles per year - over 10 years that would be a difference of over £13,000 ... you need to earn £19,500 to get that!
Using the head, the Impreza is dead in the water .... luckily we have a heart as well, but it's damned expensive following that!
22 February 2010, 03:21 PM
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Go for 2 cars then,
A good classic e.g RB5 or P1 which will be fun and depreciation proof, and use for fun and if you keep the mileage down should not cost too much.
Then your choice of TDI or 1.4 petrol for the daily grind.
Or a £12000 Scooby (Hawkeye Wagon) with £8000 petrol money.
Depends on your annual mileage.
Lifes short too short to be too sensible, at least thats what I say because my heart rules my head when it comes to running a Scooby,probably true of most people on here.
But just the Scooby idle makes you smile,
The more I think about your posts I know your right, shame the newer cars do have less character apart from the STI in the right colour!
If Subaru returned to Rallying wins the new car might have more cred!
A good classic e.g RB5 or P1 which will be fun and depreciation proof, and use for fun and if you keep the mileage down should not cost too much.
Then your choice of TDI or 1.4 petrol for the daily grind.
Or a £12000 Scooby (Hawkeye Wagon) with £8000 petrol money.
Depends on your annual mileage.
Lifes short too short to be too sensible, at least thats what I say because my heart rules my head when it comes to running a Scooby,probably true of most people on here.
But just the Scooby idle makes you smile,
The more I think about your posts I know your right, shame the newer cars do have less character apart from the STI in the right colour!
If Subaru returned to Rallying wins the new car might have more cred!
Last edited by aggs; 22 February 2010 at 03:49 PM.
22 February 2010, 04:35 PM
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+1
I had a 2004 Spec B Touring
3.0L of H6 joy...260bhp and 26mpg
The best sleeper possible, with dad looks and boy-racer performance.
Drove and handled like a much smaller car, not as nimble as the Impreza but way better than my old mans' A6 Avant
And the dog could bring a mate
Prob pick a 54 plate up for peanuts now..
I had a 2004 Spec B Touring
3.0L of H6 joy...260bhp and 26mpg
The best sleeper possible, with dad looks and boy-racer performance.
Drove and handled like a much smaller car, not as nimble as the Impreza but way better than my old mans' A6 Avant
And the dog could bring a mate
Prob pick a 54 plate up for peanuts now..
Last edited by scooby L; 22 February 2010 at 04:42 PM.