DCI Gene Hunt

That statement is factually correct - and in addition I would suggest that a hearing test is a necessity before parting with thousands in the belief that you will get an all singing and dancing sound sensation.

Assumptions are the mother of all ****ups I've dabbled in the area, testing for RF and EMF interference and various resistances (you know ICR) to see what improvements I can realise. I don't recall seeing your evidence to suggest it makes no difference at all

I would suggest they do indeed have a hearing test before parting with £3000 for some hardware and wiring their speakers up with door bell wire

I'd get a dip check on those feelings as well - they seem a tad off also

Dingdongler

1) You still haven't said what kit and cables you've used to come to your firm conclusion. You haven't even mentioned what kit you own or have owned.

2) Do you think that perhaps there is a reason why nobody has a hearing test prior to buying expensive AV kit.

3) I never said I used bell wire, please see previous post www.markgrantcables.co.uk

DCI Gene Hunt

4) I don't recall it being a requirement to post what you have before being able to comment on posts.

5) But if cable makes no difference why shouldn't you use the cheapest? - e.g. bell wire

6) Because people think that by spending 'thousands' they'll get massive improvements in frequency response - the fact that most don't know that they lose high frequencies through presbyacusis, the fact that they don't have hearing tests is one of ignorance and mistaken belief in what they'll get from buying high end equipment.

You know I'm right.....

Daz34

Although challenged, no cable companies have chosen to collect James Randi's $1m. Funny that.

I seriously doubt that people could show consistent results in blind listening tests.

Daryl

Another NSR thread brought to its knees by the "my dick is bigger than yours" brigade...

Myles

iTrader: (40)

When I saw a HiFi thread on here, I feared the worst. My fears were completely right. This makes a p1ssing contest seem tame.

DCI Gene Hunt

Not at all - people are allowed an opinion - even you

DCI Gene Hunt

Likewise - if a couple of opposing posts by members have upset you that much I suggest you avoid watching TV after the watershed as that'll just about finish you off....

Daryl

But it isn't your opinion is it, you're just a troll!

DCI Gene Hunt

- well done for being so mature

Myles

iTrader: (40)

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well that debate was getting quite interesting until the troll police turned up

Lee247

Lee247

Now that makes me wish the other half was "handy". That looks sweet. Ours is on a stand and all over the flaming floor

Daryl

OK, I'll bite...

The thread started out asking to see what hi-fi members had, but it degenerated, as usual, into a slanging match about something else entirely. Posters wouldn't get away with it on most forums, but obviously the moderators on here think that it's entertaining, so let it go. What you fail to realise, is that it then deters those of us who are happy to stick to the point from contributing. Of course, the perennial 'thread spoilers' couldn't care less about that, they are too busy being 'entertaining'!

Incidentally, I don't know whether or not you have an amazing hi-fi, because you haven't posted any pictures of it yet - anyone can post a list of high end gear on an internet forum in order to start arguing with all of the other ***** wavers.

Dingdongler

Daryl I think you're way off line actually mate. Firstly I'm not a troll!

I'm not ***** waving, I have a long held passion for all things AV and have spent hours and hours (far too long in fact) on reading, learning and auditioning the subject.
As a result, though I still have huge gaps in my knowledge I do have some fairly strongly held views.

Now, DCI and I where getting a little argumentative but neither of us were ***** waving (ie my kit is better than yours etc). You will also note that neither of us actually threw insults at the other or were rude. I like DCI but just happen to strongly disagree with him on this matter.

As happens with lots of conversations in life things sometimes go off on slight tangents, nothing wrong with that.

The OP asked to 'show us your hifi'. What did you expect? Just endless photos of peoples kit with no discussion or banter on that kit?

You really need to chill out or go somewhere else

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Starting with your last question first. The answer is yes - on other forums where I have seen this question there are threads of fifty pages or more simply of photos or queries of how did this work or where did you get that cabinet, stands or whatever.

Back to the topic - in my comments I have implied a question but let me make it direct.

You state that you have spent hours auditioning and are using this thread to 'promote' an expertise you have created. You are also using that platform to state that anyone who can hear the difference between cables is a 'moron' and yet all 'your' choices are made based on hours of auditioning.

Apart from that incongruence, I do come to my question.

You state quite categorically that 'speakers make the biggest difference' in a system.

Would you accept that this is against the wisdom of pretty much every hifi magazine, hifi consultant, hifi specialist and serious hifi store in the UK? My understanding is that to base your system around speakers went out of fashion even before Laskys went bust!

I also reiterate my comments above - a system that is based on a £150 source and £8,000 speakers is less likely to be revealing of upstream cable differences.

All IMHO of course...

...but there again I live on the flat earth!




Oh, and whilst we are on the subject of cables - if nothing else they can make a huge difference if they are not matched to the system. Different cables and different lengths of cable have different electronic characteristics and this can impact the output circuits of the device they are attached to. A mistmatch can cause serious sonic damage. If nothing else these things should be matched.

Dingdongler

No, I'm not promoting 'expertise', please read previous post where I stated there are huge gaps in my knowledge

Yes, my choices have been based on hours of auditioning to suit MY ears. Put a blindfold on me, change my preamp for example and I'll be able to tell the difference. I home auditioned the Naim 282 btw (since you are a fanboy) and it is VERY different to my ARC.

Change the cables in almost any system for other decently constructed cables and NOBODY will be able to tell the difference. This has been tried under scientific conditions.

Digital cables for example as long as not badly constructed CANNOT have a difference, as another poster has explained on this thread.

I'm not sure why you keep going on about a £150 source and £8k speakers, I do not have a £150 'source', we are talking about HiFi aren't we?

No, I do not accept your proposed 'wisdom' that there is any ONE way to system architecture. You can look at it many ways I suppose, neither my way or yours is the only way. I'll concede my statement about speakers may have been simplifying the matter

Your final statement about cables is again incorrect, its actually complete gibberish. In reality any well constructed cables, in any usual real world lengths (ie not 2 miles long!) will not have any differing characteristics that will result in a change that you can HEAR.

I have no idea what you mean by 'sonic damage'

ps, are you basing your opinions on the gobbledegook that Naim come up with where the speaker cable has to be an exact length and unfolded/folded in a certain way or everything will blow up????

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on several fundamental points here.

As for your false humility, frankly it's embarrassing.

You state that you huge gaps in your knowledge and yet when someone posts something you don't agree with then you call them 'morons'. Surely someone with huge gaps in their knowledge who wanted to learn something might demonstrate some curiousity to plug their knowledge gaps.



PS My other system has no Naim components at all but it gets boring to be accused of ***** waving all the time so I didn't mention it

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ironic then that you claim it deters you from posting yet the 'slanging match' was the ONLY reason you did post.

Yeah more moderation is what is required Get over yourself, the thread was fine and still relatively on topic actually.

Yeah whatever. If you think I am making it up then that really is YOUR problem and not mine.

Oh and if posting a list of my somewhat middle of the road (by the standards of some on here) and now quite old hi-fi on a thread asking people to post about their hi-fi makes me a ***** waver in your eyes then so be it

EddScott

Regarding the ratio of speaker costs to amp/receiver cost, I thought the idea was to spend more on the speakers than the amp/receiver - albeit a sensible ratio.

Many years ago, a very wealthy mate just bought what hifi magazine and ordered their 5 star rated products. Looked mint for sure but seemed more of a spending excercise than anything else.

My receiver is a Harmon Kardon AVR255 - its OK but it was bought as a stop gap before the latest Denon of a similar price came out but I never bothered to change it.

My speakers are Quad Lite surround package. They were half price at Weymouth audio but only in the rosewood colour. Its actually very nice and they came in little fabric pouches and gloves to handle them which was a cool touch. The sub weighs a ton but picks up the house has a bad earth so it hums sometimes.

I don't have a CD player so music is sent to the RX via my PC or my Ipod so its hardly the most pristine quality signal. I did spend some money on good quality cable - its Van Damme 2x4 blue cable which I tihnk cost about £80 and did all 5 speakers.

Only pic I've got is when I was putting it all together. It only looks a little tidier now. I never did get round to boxing all the wires in but we are going to decorate over the summer so I'll finish the job off.



I hate DIY and the thought of decorating leaves me cold. However, the shelving above are one of my more sucessful DIY attempts.

We've never used the gas fire and its a bit of a eye sore but we have been told that we can't get rid of it without changing the boiler (its a back boiler). If the fire wasn't there I would consider boxing the TV in and making it all posh like!

Was going to take the picture rail off but one of the wifes friends said they are fashionable now. Don't know if this is true.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Interesting debate chaps, I am enjoying both sides of the argument but tend to err on the side of cables being able to make a perceptible audible difference. To this end I have just ordered 6 mains cables and a new interconnect along with a new PSX-R to mate up to my CD8SE after being astounded by the difference one made to my amplifier durimng this weekends testing... Now there is another potential can of worms opened... LOL

Dingdongler

Lordy, just as I was getting a headache with the cable debate you've gone and bought expensive mains cables!!. I'm not going to start on these as I don't have the energy.

As for the PSX-R, if its an external power supply then there is no can of worms. They will often make a huge difference, though I have no experience of your actual kit.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I thought you only made decisions based on hours of auditioning. So how could you know


By the way I do agree that auditioning is the best way to see whether you like something or not

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Personally I do think that interconnects can make a demonstrable and measurable difference - indeed quite a surprising degree of difference. I also think that my personal experience and the research I have done backs this up as much as DinglyDell's doesn't.

I think the comments are a misinterpretation. Even my wife can tell the difference and she claims to be deaf with no interest.

However I do agree that 'scientific' testing may struggle to prove one is better than the other, but auditioning will reveal significant and repeatable subjective differences and which one you may prefer and at the end of they day it is a subjective choice.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Please pop back when you have eaten and rested.

Dingdongler

Because I've heard the difference external power supplies can make to other similar AV equipment. The principle works.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

For hifi this was the mantra in the 1970's.

This subsequently went out of fashion with various people demonstrating with some success that a £1000 source with £500 amplification and £100 speakers would sound far better than a £100 source with £500 amplification and £1000 speakers.

This was probably until fairly recently, especially as the first few years of cheap digital music was appalling.

More recently the source argument has weakened a little bit as more people exploit multimedia sources and digital sources are far better than they used to be. At the end of the day it is balance and what you like that ultimately counts.

It is also important to buy components that complement each others tonal qualities, tuned to your taste. Some combinations can be 'magical' some can be appalling!

Dingdongler

A bit geeky and a bit long but goes some way to explain how much the placebo effect can impact on some differences people think they maybe hearing. Oh, and for some strange reason Poppy Crum mildly arouses me!

YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop

Daryl

There's nothing ironic about my post. What is ironic, is that some people in this thread think I'm criticising them when I'm not, but they obviously have a guilty conscience!

I didn't say you were making it up; I've no doubt that you do have that gear - it's just that you suggested in an earlier post that you would try and post a pic of your set up, which is what the OP asked for.

Anyway, it's clear that even the site administrator doesn't get the point of what was supposed to be a more general comment about this forum, so I'll leave it there...