hodgy0_2

part of the problem is that, historically at least, every Jewish person in the world had a right of abode in Israel - and Israeli citizenship

part of "lifeboat Israel" created as the Jews were appallingly let down by the western powers in the years preceding the 2nd world war and the national / cultural consensus was that never again would "foreign" jews be left without a safe haven

this has created a massive demand for land, resettlement etc unfortunately at the expense of the Palestinians

Quasi Modo

They won't touch Iran with a barge pole, too useful to China.
Biggest no of Jews outside Palestine? New York, biggest outside New York? the UK, funny that.

I have to laugh at the number of anti **** programmes that are shown on telly all year round, yet when Jews do it not a word, double standards me thinks. The latest one's Hitlers crop circles and how he was on the grassy knoll in Dallas 1963. He sure got about a bit.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Yes that was the crux of the Balfour Declaration, however that which was given to the Jews belonged to someone else.

cster

That would be the Ottomans then?
Or if the Brits were giving it away, perhaps it was British?
No that can't be right.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Palestine was a British Mandate from 1920 to 1948, so yes, we did give it away. There's a lot in our country's past we should be ashamed of (who do you think gave Hitler the idea for concentration camps?).

cster

Did that make it Britain's to give away?
Would it have been OK for the Ottomans to give it away?
This area has been under the control of someone other than it's inhabitants since the Romans thought they could turn a profit from it. Handy for the trade routes I dare say.
In all. I think it would be fair to say that this land wasn't given away, it was taken.

Perhaps if the Ottomans had created a viable state in this area whilst it was under their control, things today would be very different.
But that is not the nature of Empires is it?
They always seem to prefer to leave with their tails between their legs.
The feeling/rights of the locals are at most, an inconvenience.*

Anyway, that is just history. It may explain how we got here, but is it likely to help us move on? Not in this case I dare say.

*Just ask any Palestinian

Leslie

If they continue with inflammatory actions then they can't be interested in any kind of a peace settlement.

Les

scud8

iTrader: (1)

After the second world war the UK made a commitment to the US that half a million jews could be resettled to Palestine, which was under British control at the time. The UK tried to renege on that, but eventually caved in because the US was withholding post-war loans which the UK desperately needed. I would say that qualifies as giving it away, for fairly shoddy motives as well.

amar7274

The biggest terrorists in the world are the Isralie government
It's about time people realise this, they are getting away with murder.
One day those f****** will get what they deserve.
There is no way in the world that the crimes that they consistenly commit will go unpunished.

cster

Well there are plenty of people on both sides of the wall, who would vociferously question the right of Britain to say who could or could not live there. Probably the only people who did not question their right, were the British themselves
Let's be realistic, Britain post WW2 was in a pretty poor shape and that is being generous.

Back on topic - I would have to say it appears pretty clear that the Israelis do not think splitting Jerusalem in two is a viable option.
The settlements being built around Jerusalem would appear to negate the possibility of it being a Palestinian capital in any meaningful sense.

Quasi Modo

The problem around the world though is the pro Israeli support being given behind the general publics back, everyone's frightened to say anything because of aggressive accusations of anti semitism, if this is allowed to continue, these insane egotistical halfwits will never stop . Sometimes you have to stand up to bullies and say no, enough is enough, time for you to back off or face some of your own medicine. I don't care how much better they think they are than everybody else, this is the real world and this problem requires fixing. History repeats itself as is sometimes quoted.

dpb

Why cant we just give them a new homeland , say somewhere south a Karbala

Mus

iTrader: (2)

I'm suprised how people on scoobynet are seen both sides of the story there is a god after all lol

cster

Next you will be telling us the Jews and the Arabs call each other cousin LOL.

Leslie

Les

Mus

iTrader: (2)

we are Cster lol

Maz

iTrader: (34)

There are some very intelligent, articulate and balanced folk on here. The Palestinian issue will never be resolved as long as Israel carries on with the settlements and Palestinians carry on with using their populus as cannon fodder. It is extremely difficult to see where a resolution to the crisis is going to come from.
The sad irony is that, as you say Mus, the Palestinians and the Jews are cousins.

hodgy0_2

even the most hardline Jewish leader, when the realities of office hit home - think yitzhak rabin, eventually come to the obvious conclusion that dialouge is the only way it is going to be solved

he was the one Jewish leader who had the gravitas within Isreal to break the deadlock

as he was making progress he was killed by Jewish hardline extremist - who truly want some sort of holy war

cster

So it is written.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

This is spot on. Sharon was another good example - there are so many allegations of war crimes against Palestinians in his past, but he was the only Israeli leader strong enough to make the Gaza withdrawal happen, and now he is in a coma. None of the others are strong enough or able enough to stand up to the hardliners - usually because they need their support to hold a government together.

cster

Here is a story I heard from a friend, but did not read in the papers.
Several years ago, an armed Jordanian border guard killed a some Israelis who happened to be within range (that part I did read about).
The king of Jordan (king Hussein) visited the family of the Israeli victims and formally apologised. He bowed before them and washed their feet.
Now there, in my eyes, was a big man.
Not so many about nowadays alas.

Leslie

You are right, King Hussein was a pretty outstanding person.

Les