Israeli settlements
#31
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part of the problem is that, historically at least, every Jewish person in the world had a right of abode in Israel - and Israeli citizenship
part of "lifeboat Israel" created as the Jews were appallingly let down by the western powers in the years preceding the 2nd world war and the national / cultural consensus was that never again would "foreign" jews be left without a safe haven
this has created a massive demand for land, resettlement etc unfortunately at the expense of the Palestinians
part of "lifeboat Israel" created as the Jews were appallingly let down by the western powers in the years preceding the 2nd world war and the national / cultural consensus was that never again would "foreign" jews be left without a safe haven
this has created a massive demand for land, resettlement etc unfortunately at the expense of the Palestinians
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 15 March 2010 at 11:18 PM.
#32
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I tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinians. And it is so one sided - look at the last skirmish, something like 1200 + Palestinians killed and a dozen Israelis. And the blockades which basically stop Palestine from rebuilding, but why can't the UN accompany goods brought in to try and ensure they aren't nicked by Hamas?
But there is huge Israeli support in US and to a lesser part in UK. Israelis are spread right through industry, it's not just Govt. And don't forget that Israel might just provide the means of wiping out Iran's nuclear development and that is a huge plus from the US point of view. dl
But there is huge Israeli support in US and to a lesser part in UK. Israelis are spread right through industry, it's not just Govt. And don't forget that Israel might just provide the means of wiping out Iran's nuclear development and that is a huge plus from the US point of view. dl
Biggest no of Jews outside Palestine? New York, biggest outside New York? the UK, funny that.
I have to laugh at the number of anti **** programmes that are shown on telly all year round, yet when Jews do it not a word, double standards me thinks. The latest one's Hitlers crop circles and how he was on the grassy knoll in Dallas 1963. He sure got about a bit.
#33
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part of the problem is that, historically at least, every Jewish person in the world had a right of abode in Israel - and Israeli citizenship
part of "lifeboat Israel" created as the Jews were appallingly let down by the western powers in the years preceding the 2nd world war and the national / cultural consensus was that never again would "foreign" jews be left without a safe haven
this has created a massive demand for land, resettlement etc unfortunately at the expense of the Palastinians
part of "lifeboat Israel" created as the Jews were appallingly let down by the western powers in the years preceding the 2nd world war and the national / cultural consensus was that never again would "foreign" jews be left without a safe haven
this has created a massive demand for land, resettlement etc unfortunately at the expense of the Palastinians
Yes that was the crux of the Balfour Declaration, however that which was given to the Jews belonged to someone else.
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#35
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Palestine was a British Mandate from 1920 to 1948, so yes, we did give it away. There's a lot in our country's past we should be ashamed of (who do you think gave Hitler the idea for concentration camps?).
#36
Would it have been OK for the Ottomans to give it away?
This area has been under the control of someone other than it's inhabitants since the Romans thought they could turn a profit from it. Handy for the trade routes I dare say.
In all. I think it would be fair to say that this land wasn't given away, it was taken.
Perhaps if the Ottomans had created a viable state in this area whilst it was under their control, things today would be very different.
But that is not the nature of Empires is it?
They always seem to prefer to leave with their tails between their legs.
The feeling/rights of the locals are at most, an inconvenience.*
Anyway, that is just history. It may explain how we got here, but is it likely to help us move on? Not in this case I dare say.
*Just ask any Palestinian
Last edited by cster; 16 March 2010 at 09:03 AM.
#38
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Did that make it Britain's to give away?
Would it have been OK for the Ottomans to give it away?
This area has been under the control of someone other than it's inhabitants since the Romans thought they could turn a profit from it. Handy for the trade routes I dare say.
In all. I think it would be fair to say that this land wasn't given away, it was taken.
Perhaps if the Ottomans had created a viable state in this area whilst it was under their control, things today would be very different.
But that is not the nature of Empires is it?
They always seem to prefer to leave with their tails between their legs.
The feeling/rights of the locals are at most, an inconvenience.*
Anyway, that is just history. It may explain how we got here, but is it likely to help us move on? Not in this case I dare say.
*Just ask any Palestinian
Would it have been OK for the Ottomans to give it away?
This area has been under the control of someone other than it's inhabitants since the Romans thought they could turn a profit from it. Handy for the trade routes I dare say.
In all. I think it would be fair to say that this land wasn't given away, it was taken.
Perhaps if the Ottomans had created a viable state in this area whilst it was under their control, things today would be very different.
But that is not the nature of Empires is it?
They always seem to prefer to leave with their tails between their legs.
The feeling/rights of the locals are at most, an inconvenience.*
Anyway, that is just history. It may explain how we got here, but is it likely to help us move on? Not in this case I dare say.
*Just ask any Palestinian
#39
The biggest terrorists in the world are the Isralie government
It's about time people realise this, they are getting away with murder.
One day those f****** will get what they deserve.
There is no way in the world that the crimes that they consistenly commit will go unpunished.
It's about time people realise this, they are getting away with murder.
One day those f****** will get what they deserve.
There is no way in the world that the crimes that they consistenly commit will go unpunished.
#40
After the second world war the UK made a commitment to the US that half a million jews could be resettled to Palestine, which was under British control at the time. The UK tried to renege on that, but eventually caved in because the US was withholding post-war loans which the UK desperately needed. I would say that qualifies as giving it away, for fairly shoddy motives as well.
Let's be realistic, Britain post WW2 was in a pretty poor shape and that is being generous.
Back on topic - I would have to say it appears pretty clear that the Israelis do not think splitting Jerusalem in two is a viable option.
The settlements being built around Jerusalem would appear to negate the possibility of it being a Palestinian capital in any meaningful sense.
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The problem around the world though is the pro Israeli support being given behind the general publics back, everyone's frightened to say anything because of aggressive accusations of anti semitism, if this is allowed to continue, these insane egotistical halfwits will never stop . Sometimes you have to stand up to bullies and say no, enough is enough, time for you to back off or face some of your own medicine. I don't care how much better they think they are than everybody else, this is the real world and this problem requires fixing. History repeats itself as is sometimes quoted.
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#47
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The sad irony is that, as you say Mus, the Palestinians and the Jews are cousins.
#48
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even the most hardline Jewish leader, when the realities of office hit home - think yitzhak rabin, eventually come to the obvious conclusion that dialouge is the only way it is going to be solved
he was the one Jewish leader who had the gravitas within Isreal to break the deadlock
as he was making progress he was killed by Jewish hardline extremist - who truly want some sort of holy war
he was the one Jewish leader who had the gravitas within Isreal to break the deadlock
as he was making progress he was killed by Jewish hardline extremist - who truly want some sort of holy war
#50
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even the most hardline Jewish leader, when the realities of office hit home - think yitzhak rabin, eventually come to the obvious conclusion that dialouge is the only way it is going to be solved
he was the one Jewish leader who had the gravitas within Isreal to break the deadlock
as he was making progress he was killed by Jewish hardline extremist - who truly want some sort of holy war
he was the one Jewish leader who had the gravitas within Isreal to break the deadlock
as he was making progress he was killed by Jewish hardline extremist - who truly want some sort of holy war
#51
Here is a story I heard from a friend, but did not read in the papers.
Several years ago, an armed Jordanian border guard killed a some Israelis who happened to be within range (that part I did read about).
The king of Jordan (king Hussein) visited the family of the Israeli victims and formally apologised. He bowed before them and washed their feet.
Now there, in my eyes, was a big man.
Not so many about nowadays alas.
Several years ago, an armed Jordanian border guard killed a some Israelis who happened to be within range (that part I did read about).
The king of Jordan (king Hussein) visited the family of the Israeli victims and formally apologised. He bowed before them and washed their feet.
Now there, in my eyes, was a big man.
Not so many about nowadays alas.
Last edited by cster; 18 March 2010 at 12:40 AM.
#52
Here is a story I heard from a friend, but did not read in the papers.
Several years ago, an armed Jordanian border guard killed a some Israelis who happened to be within range (that part I did read about).
The king of Jordan (king Hussein) visited the family of the Israeli victims and formally apologised. He bowed before them and washed their feet.
Now there, in my eyes, was a big man.
Not so many about nowadays alas.
Several years ago, an armed Jordanian border guard killed a some Israelis who happened to be within range (that part I did read about).
The king of Jordan (king Hussein) visited the family of the Israeli victims and formally apologised. He bowed before them and washed their feet.
Now there, in my eyes, was a big man.
Not so many about nowadays alas.
Les
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