Trigger happy US troops
#31
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You dont want to be on the receiving end of any of that. It seems like the Yanks have the same tactic as the Vikings, just be so ruthless that they scare the enemy into submission.
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Interesting language patterns being used by the Yanks on this movie...
...and BTW if you did not know the victims include at least two Reuters journalists.
“Let me engage, can I shoot?” - gunner
“Picking up the wounded?” - ground control
“Come on, let us shoot.” - gunner
“Well, it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle.” - aircrew realising there are two children on the ground
To my ears this is not the measured tone of a highly trained professional at the gun - it is the language of a cowboy.
The really scary thing is that this is unlikely to be an isolated incident. Urban warfare is very hard, but this behaviour makes it a thousand times harder as it will only multiply the resolve of an already deeply militant and extremist enemy.
...and BTW if you did not know the victims include at least two Reuters journalists.
“Let me engage, can I shoot?” - gunner
“Picking up the wounded?” - ground control
“Come on, let us shoot.” - gunner
“Well, it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle.” - aircrew realising there are two children on the ground
To my ears this is not the measured tone of a highly trained professional at the gun - it is the language of a cowboy.
The really scary thing is that this is unlikely to be an isolated incident. Urban warfare is very hard, but this behaviour makes it a thousand times harder as it will only multiply the resolve of an already deeply militant and extremist enemy.
#36
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You have to put yourself in the seat of the guys in the helecopters, knowing they have people on the ground, not by what your being told is going on by some guy ringing a picture saying its a camera, note they didnt ring the one saying its an AK47, its not a game, they make games reallistic so you can get a feel, but you never will, the adrenelin rush wont be there, the quick thinking wont be there, the "lives depend on it" wont be there, in a game its "oh im dead, start again", not there, so your now the helecopter pilot, forget all that crap thats ringed, look at it, interprate it in the same ammout of time they have, its not exactly easy to do, and the journalists really did **** up, not saying where they went, remember at the time this is a hot zone, not just some back yard where you can stroll about.
Tony![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Tony
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They were just looking for an excuse to kill someone!
Les
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#37
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They were trying to remove any evidence. If he was dead they would have left him.
War isn't very nice, here we have a video with many facts missing trying to portray the US troops in a bad light.
Some of you are lapping it up.
War isn't very nice, here we have a video with many facts missing trying to portray the US troops in a bad light.
Some of you are lapping it up.
#38
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Interesting language patterns being used by the Yanks on this movie...
...and BTW if you did not know the victims include at least two Reuters journalists.
“Let me engage, can I shoot?” - gunner
“Picking up the wounded?” - ground control
“Come on, let us shoot.” - gunner
“Well, it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle.” - aircrew realising there are two children on the ground
To my ears this is not the measured tone of a highly trained professional at the gun - it is the language of a cowboy.
The really scary thing is that this is unlikely to be an isolated incident. Urban warfare is very hard, but this behaviour makes it a thousand times harder as it will only multiply the resolve of an already deeply militant and extremist enemy.
...and BTW if you did not know the victims include at least two Reuters journalists.
“Let me engage, can I shoot?” - gunner
“Picking up the wounded?” - ground control
“Come on, let us shoot.” - gunner
“Well, it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle.” - aircrew realising there are two children on the ground
To my ears this is not the measured tone of a highly trained professional at the gun - it is the language of a cowboy.
The really scary thing is that this is unlikely to be an isolated incident. Urban warfare is very hard, but this behaviour makes it a thousand times harder as it will only multiply the resolve of an already deeply militant and extremist enemy.
#39
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Unprofessional? LOL
These are trained killers....not office workers!
Maybe during their next review their superioirs could bring this up with them.
These are trained killers....not office workers!
Maybe during their next review their superioirs could bring this up with them.
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Les
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Les, the Apache was not there by accident.
It was called there becuase of a distubance and people with guns. People in the video (I only watched the fuller 39min version) had guns....what were they doing, going on a hunting party...I doubt it.
It was called there becuase of a distubance and people with guns. People in the video (I only watched the fuller 39min version) had guns....what were they doing, going on a hunting party...I doubt it.
#44
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If you think gloating about killing people from the safety of an Apache is professional then you need a reality check. If these guys were on the ground then I can assure you that van would most likely have been untouched. What weapons did they have in the extended video, just out of interest? If innocent members of your family had been killed as 'collateral' like this, I garantee you wouldn't have the same unsympathetic attitude.
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davyboy - they were Reuters journalists with their bodyguards not f**king extremists. Please don't let the facts get in the way!
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
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They see dead bodies, like we see road kill...after a while you become immune to it, especially when they have killed a few of your colleagues.
You can see at least 2 people carrying long guns, which I suspect are AK47s.
I doubt my family would be hanging around a war zone with armed people.
You have to admit the Apache is awesome though....ripped them buggers apart from hundreds of meters away. They never even heard it.
You can see at least 2 people carrying long guns, which I suspect are AK47s.
I doubt my family would be hanging around a war zone with armed people.
You have to admit the Apache is awesome though....ripped them buggers apart from hundreds of meters away. They never even heard it.
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davyboy - they were Reuters journalists with their bodyguards not f**king extremists. Please don't let the facts get in the way!
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
If you saw the full film without ALL the marked area's i bet you would see it totally different, its called subliminal interpretation or something like that (basically you already know what is there as its been pointed out to you, they didnt so it impairs YOUR judgement), they have already shown you whats there, you dont know that at the time, you just see armed people in the street.
Tony
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davyboy - they were Reuters journalists with their bodyguards not f**king extremists. Please don't let the facts get in the way!
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
The biggest weapon they had was a TV camera!! And if nothing else this video does show that the pen (or modern day equivalent) is mightier than the sword.
Professional soldiers do not typically beg their control to 'let us shoot'.
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One of my current employees is an ex soldier and he has told me that all the brits try to stay away from the yanks while out on duty as they are crazy for shooting things.
Its common knowledge, as for the video, i would liked to have watched it first without the propaganda attached to it.
Its common knowledge, as for the video, i would liked to have watched it first without the propaganda attached to it.
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Picking up the wounded is a terrorist tactic, your basically not a part of a medical group, you could also be picking up any fire arms (note in the video they do mention that), this in its own right removes the right of protection from a civillian according to the Geneva convention, if they would have given first aid on the spot then that may have been seen in a different light.
Tony
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#52
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it was a bad judgment call at the start. simple as.
The engagement is an engagement, if they can move they can shoot and kill you. if the guy being taken away was a hostile then it was more hostiles helping him so a valid target.
but as said the initial info of what was being carried etc was very bad.
The engagement is an engagement, if they can move they can shoot and kill you. if the guy being taken away was a hostile then it was more hostiles helping him so a valid target.
but as said the initial info of what was being carried etc was very bad.
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Reuters
This story pre-dates the release of the video by two years and the US military clearly stated at the time that the US military had come under fire from the group on the ground. I would like you to find the point in the video where the US military came under fire, or the group on the ground assumed a hostile posture.
Can you also think of a situation where Reuters journalists would fire at an Apache helicopter?
There is a moment in the video where you could mistakenly believe that there was an individual hiding with an RPG - however this is not substantiated when the Apache flies around the back of the building.
The ground troops indicated on the video that they had not engaged this group so it could only have been the helicopter that had been fired upon.
I do take Tony's point that if they were journalists with their protection then why were they where they were. However neither of can know whether they were supposed to be there or not and Tony's assertion that they were in an area they should not have been in is simply that, an assertion.
Even putting aside all of that - the soldiers in this video behaved more like a bunch of Snetters playing COD Modern Warfare on a Friday evening than professional soldiers. All too easy from such a lethal weapon as an Apache helicopter.
This video is sad because of the people that died unnecessarily, but moreso it is very dangerous as it will merely harden the resolve of those against the US and convert more moderates to be militants.
At least if the soldiers had been less gung ho then the 'mistake' might be a tad more acceptable.
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My point being is that you were told they were journalists before watching the video.
The soldiers in the Apache did not have that benefit of watching a youtube video before battle.
Everything they saw, they saw for the first time, with the information that there were armed people there.
Clearly it's sad innocent people were killed, but this happens in wars.
The soldiers in the Apache did not have that benefit of watching a youtube video before battle.
Everything they saw, they saw for the first time, with the information that there were armed people there.
Clearly it's sad innocent people were killed, but this happens in wars.
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The sad fact is, for all the innocent civilians who were killed in this incident, it probably created a whole new bunch of armed extremists as the sons, brothers, cousins, etc. of the victims flock to the Taliban to exact their revenge on the Americans.
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You didn't answer my question.
The US military have defended the action that they were returning fire.
At which point in the video do you see the helicopter fired upon.
Or the group on the ground taking a substantially hostile position. There is one point, where this is possible, but it is not supported when the helicopter flies around the building.
The US military have defended the action that they were returning fire.
At which point in the video do you see the helicopter fired upon.
Or the group on the ground taking a substantially hostile position. There is one point, where this is possible, but it is not supported when the helicopter flies around the building.
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Trout, did you watch the full video?
IIRC the ground troops found a live RPG at the scene.....
There is also the strange man who was crouched down, peaking around the corner before they engaged, i think this was the RPG man?
IIRC the ground troops found a live RPG at the scene.....
There is also the strange man who was crouched down, peaking around the corner before they engaged, i think this was the RPG man?
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Was one of the Reuters guys the injured one, the rescuers his bodyguards?
If so why were there kids in the van?
If so why were there kids in the van?