patswrx

15 psi and yes

C h a z

All these horror stories about superchips seem to centre around import WRX's. Possibly our fuel is no good for them when the boost is turned up? Doesn't an import WRX run higher than 15psi standard anyway?

patswrx

I don't know what standard boost is but there the specealists.
And set it all up ,on RR it was producing 293bhp ,and is allways run on optimax and octane booster.

Sheepsplitter

Chaz a lot of people on here are trying to be helpful by passing on info. If you don't want to hear the good AND bad things about Superchips then maybe it would be best not to ask in an environment that has some history of using/testing the upgrade.
You have obviously decided to go ahead with your upgrade no matter what. I personally have no experience of SuperChips, but I do know of a number of people who are now between £4K and £5K poorer because they had big end or piston failure as a result of the conversion. At the end of the day though it's your car and your money. I think what most of the people on here are trying to say is that there are other ways of achieving the performance you are after with sometimes cheaper and safer solutions.
However I have to say that sometimes your best off doing your own thing. I have a PE Phase 1 conversion on my STI4 which has been on now for over 60K miles and whilst a number of people on this board (and 22B) have criticised PE for the conversion I personally (and a number of other people) have had no problems (or very few, but certainly not engine destroying) with the conversion.
I don't drive my car slowly (I'm a biker and my other modes of transport are R1's, Fireblades and GSXR1000's so speed and acceleration float my boat), so for the PE conversion to keep my car going for so long gives me huge confidence in recommending the work Merv and the team at PE can do for you.
I know they do not recommend SuperChips for Subarus, and whilst I was at PE a while ago the SuperChips rep even said he didn't, as he'd learnt a lot about problems of overboost from Merv and the lads.

If my engine blows up tomorrow, with 67K miles on it I won't feel too upset, given that the last rolling road session gave over 350BHP + 297lbs/ft. I don't know of anyone with a Superchips conversion who got a further 10K miles :-(

Paul_H

Quote........"I however, am not confident, that I can put as much resources into developing a "home grown" soultion that will be as good a super chip".

You don't have to, as the hard work has already been done:
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=78214



[Edited by Paul_H - 3/27/2002 11:18:35 PM]

Cosie Convert

Jumping swiftly to the other side of the fence........ Nobody on this board would have recommended I should do what I've done to my 95WRX. In fact, by all accounts it should have blown up long ago
Maybe it will soon ?? but in the meantime I'm enjoying 0 - 100 in under 10 seconds from less than 1K worth of mods

Oh, to answer your previous Q's Yes I do spray my car myself and service it and make most of the 'go faster bits' fitted to it



[Edited by Cosie Convert - 3/28/2002 1:05:13 AM]

LEE P

Hmmm never heard of one doing more than 10000?

Well Teknopete says he ran one for two years no probs,
i believe dave Brown runs one and uses in a fashion as the car is designed,
dave allan's car did 15000 without trouble,
my mates Had a MY01 with full decat and he only covered 8000 but with 3 trackdays and lots of abuse. (then sold it)

im not defending anyones corner but im still waiting to hear of someone with a uk spec car which has a superchip which has been PROPERLY set up and not tampered with to get more than a safe 17psi which has gone bang?

Seems alot of import WRX have had trouble but i believe they can det when standard on our fuel and bearing in mind turning up the boost is prob not a good idea, a full decat would make it run leaner again?

But i hear "Value for money mods!"
Why on gods earth did anyone buy a PPP package then? at 1500 quid plus the dreaded souunds like a expensive bit of mid range punch to me, but no doubt it was the sacred warrenty issue that swung it?
IMHO has anyone blown one up with a few mods and the dealer has foot the bill? as i believe there well within there rights to tell you to **** off if you even had a filter in let alone decat zorst? i personally cant be bothered with the warrenty and the service at subaru on my MY00 id rather pay a specialist and take my chance.

But as standard cars have done pistons im still not convinced its not a oil problem or oil circulation or just to thin, how can anyone point the finger at one thing when nobody seems to have the answers to the standard cars going bang,

or can someone defo say it was X Y Z?

Well that was a long one for me all IMHO but there a few questions that are unanswered floating round.

Lee

dowser

I bought a PPP 'cos I was young then, and stupid

I got no problems with the Superchip - but if you give me £200 I'll give you safer functionalty and the same performance.

A Superchip set up correctly is no better or worse than what many of us have done with MBC's/FCD's - except it's bloody expensive, and it removes fuel cut altogether. The FC issue is no problem as long as you're aware of, and accept, the risk - it just wouldn't be my chosen path if I wanted to up boost.

However Chaz, you posted early on, "With the superchip I still retain a fuel cut safety net, all be it a higher one". That's just not true (unless you're talking about the pump stopping when the engine siezes and stalls ) - hence my post. I tried not to be anti-Superchip at all, just to highlight an innacuracy in your understanding of what this solution does.

As per Paul's post above, a lot of work by him and John has been put into designing a proper, fully adjustable, fuel cut defender. This, along with a Dawes and a rolling road session, would come in at under £200 even if you paid someone to build the FCD! It would offer the same performance (in reality a Dawes is better than a bleed - but we wont go there ), with more scope for improvements in the future.

Enjoy the Superchip - bloody overpriced rubbish that it is (in my very humble opinion)

Richard
Edited to add: CC - you'd have convinced us differently I still notice people warning you when they first hear about your car - but quieten down once they realise you're aware of the risks. I actually think this board is *very* protective of it's members...and their cars

[Edited by dowser - 3/28/2002 7:45:54 AM]

urban

iTrader: (1)

Guys

I am currently on my second car now, first car was a MY98, had a superchip fitted around 7K, sold it with 28K on the clock, and no problems at all.

Current car is a MY00, superchip fitted at about 4K, currently has 33K on it, again no problems.

Just a small point to make, I asked my dealer (who I know personally) about getting the PPP when i had my first car. He replied that in his oppinion it was very expensive for what you get (powerwise). And recommended this other chap to me, stating that he had chipped lots of turbos and continued on to say that this chap is sensible and doesnt wack the boost up sky high.
I then started asking about warranty etc, dealer told me that none of the cars this chap had chipped had blown up, and if something did go wrong with my car, they would sort it out under warranty anyway.

Anyway, car going strong, but the chip is being removed pretty soon because she is being replaced by a UK STI in may sometime.

I havent had any problems in the past 5 years with superchips, I do know from the superchip guy that WRX's do go bang sometimes with the superchip, and he recommends that WRX owners don't have them fitted.

Shaun

LEE P

Im with shaun on this, if it is set up properly at a peak of 17psi and 16 held and tuners have told me its rich enough to run more, even on a cold day its surley wouldnt overboost by 4 psi? i mean im not sure but is that possible? albiet would only be for a short burst.
So that leaves pipes bursting, it that a regular occurance? and if you use that thicker piping it should be o.k?

Anyway you have to be aware of risks, and it could happen, but a bill of 5k my mate is a subaru mechanic and said he can get a short motor for 800 quid, even a second hand motor should be cheaper than 5000k.

JB...you said you couldnt tell the differance between 17psi and 21psi? why is this as its like night and day between 14psi and 18psi? and if a pipe burst or came off would it not shoot to about 2bar? which would be noticeable? just curious and await your detailed reply

many thanks Lee

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Standard early WRX is about 10psi, so to give it 15psi and run on lower octane could be considered a bit of a risk.

Chaz, before you go to Turbo Systems please speak to Mervyn at Power engineering regarding the issues highlighted here.

Power Engineering are Superchips dealers, but even so I reckon Merv won't recommend one due to the lack of FCD and known failure rates.
For an extra £50-£100 on top of the Superchip price, he could probably re-map your ECU maintain your fuel cut and you won't need the Superchip supplied bleed valve.

P.S Are you sure that Turbo Systems are open on 'Good Friday'

[Edited by Scott.T - 3/28/2002 8:16:15 AM]

LEE P

Scott T known faiiure rates?....is that because of no FCD, superchip, stage 1 chip, bleedvalves with uped boost or just plain old chocolate engine syndrome?
i keep hearing about these failiures but can anyone put there finger on what the cause was?

I mean a standard car probably would go pop if someone drove around constantly redlineing it in low gears everything has a breaking point, but were these failiures caus3ed by very high boosts?

ive just been reading CC "is overboost a good thing?" and he obviously seems to mange it, even JB said his car hit a 20psi spike and the fuel cut didnt come in?

im not being a narky bu66er but theres been alot of talk about engine failiures sinc i joined snet last july but where is the hard evidence as to the problem?

Lee

john banks

Under 2500 rpm a td04 car can reach over 20 PSI with the torque coming a little later. During that phase it can feel very similar to a lower boost level - the boost just builds for longer - possibly another 200 RPM if you set the boost higher. Sometimes the ECU is quick enough to kill overboost before you see it on the gauge. Believe me, Cosie Convert and I were a little mystified when setting up my EBC as to why it was fuel cutting - I don't think either of use could tell the difference in performance so low down in the rev range. It is quite deceptively progressive and smooth and you really can be over 20 PSI very quickly without a suspicion. By then it is mainly making hot air with no real extra performance - look at the compressor map if you don't believe me.

Funnily enough Dave Allan was telling me his MY00 reached 25 PSI one day for no reason - and it got that high before he backed off.

Dave Brown's turbo didn't last too long running at that boost with a Superchip.

LEE P

Hi John!
o.k you probably cant tell when its soo low down, but how does a bleedvalve which thats what a superchip is set for 17psi rise 8psi for no reason at all? there must of been some reason? i mean the dawes is a mechanical boost controller so does that have 8 psi boost spikes?
im not argueing or being hostile but 8 psi for no reason sounds abit odd to me?

Lee

john banks

I don't think any of us are being hostile

Boost control is a chaotic process and not an easy one to harness. Things do go wrong and can be unpredictable. Tiny bit of gunk in a restrictor can do it and then move.

Too many Subarus have occasionally unstable boost control for removing a useful safety device to be a good idea, especially when it is completely unnecessary to achieve the same results. It is a botcher's approach.

JamesS

Just to butt-in; no one has mentioned temperature of intake charge temp.

The reason the TD04 feels just as fast, if not faster, at 16psi than at 20-22psi is the fact that intake charge temp will be getting on for half that at 22psi.

I suspect most superchip failures are due to stupid intake charge temps.

Running a TD04 at 20psi will give you intake temps of 60-70degC. This will cause spark retard, increased EGT, increased risk of Det etc etc.

As has been said before a superchips at 16psi should be OK, but exactly the same effect can be had with a 5 pound bleed valve or the Dawes........

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Have you spoken to Merv yet ???

Cosie Convert

A few years go, a friend of mine had his Fiesta RS Turbo Stg 2 superchipped. For months, the car went like a little rocket, 200bhp from a 1.6

One warm summers day, he called me to say it wasn't going so well and it was making a 'funny' noise. I agreed to look at it for him a few days later.

He took me out for a run and by the time he had hit 2nd gear I was shouting at him to STOP. He replied saying "No, it's worse when you go faster, keep listening"
What I heard could only be compared to a Transit Diesel being revved hard from cold, detonation in a BIG way right through the rev range.
It had been doing this for over a week !! The sound, masked by the big subs in the boot, had not been the issue, it was the fall off in performance that he was not happy with.

On inspection, the actuator hose had come off the turbo nipple. This had not been moved during the superchip install so I can only assume the additional turbo heat and pressure caused the softening of the rubber.

On refitting the hose, the car ran normally...........for two weeks, then a piston failed.

From this experience I learned three things

1 - When the boost pressure goes sky high due to actuator failure, the performance may only change slightly.

2 - Detonation does not 'instantly' destroy an engine. Honestly, this had been driven like this for a week !!! However it will cause a failure, given time.

3 - Some people just don't have a clue and need idiot proof cars.

So if you keep an eye on your boost gauge, monitor knock and AFR (assuming you know what you're looking for )then a superchip will probably do the job for you.

If you want to watch the scenery and have the sounds blasting out
then I suggest something with a bit more built in protection is appropriate.

Paul_H

While testing the fuel cut lifter I blew off the hose to the MAP sensor, it blew off at 1.4 Bar. I hasten to add that the engine was not running at the time! Look closely and you will see that the hoses are just pushed onto the sensor without any mechanical fastenings.

...if the MAP sensor has no pressure to it then you will have no fuel cut!

I recommend that the small pressure hoses to the sensor/solenoid etc are secured with cable ties. Indeed while you're doing it make sure EVERYTHING that is supposed to be connected is secured.

I've had the Dawes off & on a few times, and did also accidentally rip the wastegate hose. It didn't take much force. I replaced it with 4mm bore petrol hose.

The point is that it is easier than you would think for a hose to blow off, or otherwise fail, especially if you are running high boost. Failures can & do happen.

[Edited by Paul_H - 3/28/2002 5:36:47 PM]

C h a z

LIsten guy's, I will ring Well Lane in the morning and find out exactly what's what. I did ask them to use the dawes rather than a bleed. An improvement I'm sure you will all agree. As far as I'm aware the super chip alters the signal from the map sensor. So I am thinking that the fuel cut will remain. If it does not then perhaps a re-think is in order. What would your suggestions be?

mancamefirst

Guys, I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about, but its fascinating... Can't waut to see what happens tomorrow, who needs 'Stenders or Corrie..

C h a z

Nice one mancamefirst

andrew h

Chaz just get the bloody thing fitted and enjoy it .I've just had my P1 unichipped and it was worth every penny
Andy

C h a z

Is the unichip different to the superchip?

(C h a z paces up and down the room)

14hrs to go to possible melt down......

Trout...

Unichip is different to Superchip - instead of removing the FCD and allowing you to run higher boost - at some or great risk - the Unichip alters the signals to the ECU to enable the car to give higher fueling.

Both are dependent on some form of mechnical or electrical device to alter the boost pressure tho to enable more power to be created.

IMHO some of the challenges with these mods are the boost control - and it just takes once for the boost to get out of control for the car to be very sick.

Also - just out of interest - my car has boost peak memory and having run perfectly for about six months - very suddenly and for no reason I understand the boost overshot and held 1.7bar!!!!!!!!!!

Never done it before, never done it again. It just goes to show that no matter what your set up the boost can badly overshoot. Fortunately my car is 'mapped' up to a theoretical 2 bar and so the fueling and ignition were safe and there was no det recorded.

So a Superchip is probably dependent in whether you fiddle with the bleed valve to get your higher boost levels and simply push it too far. If you do then chocolate or not the engine will melt.

Trout

Trout...

PS A car that has a set-up almost identical to mine was at Well Lane and got an astouding 370bhp on the rollers. Run back to back with mine he got 315bhp (I got a tad more).

You can draw your own conclusions.

Trout

Harry Potter

False economy!

To factor in a replacement engine in to a rechipping experiment means that a link system is a bargain!

Cars that have blown with Phase 1 associated, my 22B after 600 miles.

Russel's 22B.

Moray Mackenzie.

Glen Stenhouse has bought a car with a new engine after the original failed with a Phase 1.

There are several others and I am nolonger in contact with them.

The problem is that engine failure is multifactorial, nothing is prooved, chippers know it is hard to proove.

Power Engineering are certainly not the worst Impreza outfit! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

What is an acceptable failure rate?

Russel's car had 3000 trouble free miles with his Phase 1, before it was rechipped after mine had lasted 600 miles.

Russel's rechip lasted a few days. Who knows maybe his first rechip was "better"!?

Fortunately as Russels car was a UK 22B he had a warrantee and so it was taken off just before its fateful run at Bruntingthorpe!

Our cars are close to the edge as it is, all it takes is a hot day and a crap batch of fuel and we can be in trouble, pushing the envelope is when problems arise!

Or changing the induction/exhaust system on a bespoke map!

In my case I had an absolute rocket for 600 miles I was a huge fan, told the magazines how great it was..told all my car buddies etc

Then on the first cold wet (monsoon) day of summer at a magic roundabout masquerading as an airfield track day slowly picking my way arround the rocks on the runway [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] my car fails [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
, engine showed signs of light dett and running excessively hot. Cold wet air being denser than hot thin stuff it had been mapped with

Now I am more worldly wise I have an EGT guage, a air intake temp guage, boost guage and oil temp/pressure guage.

Once bitten twice shy

ScottishMenace

Just noticed this little thread on one of my favourite subjects. I am no technician guys but yes I had the superchip professionally set up by Falkland. It seems that most of the problems we read about are because they are set up as DIY jobs with people who then mess about with them without the proper experience. On saying that I have only ever seen a handful of posts about people whose engine went BANG, even then was it the superchip? I am sure ther have been instances of LINK and MOTEC going bang also.
My only problem came when the hose leading to the bleed valve was not properly secured and melted on the turbo heat shield. As John said I saw 25psi and backed off until I got the hose replaced and properly secured. Never any re occurance or other problems.
I always felt happy with my Superchip, appreciated the risks as with any mod but enjoyed every extra minute of the extra thrill.