South Park vs Islam
#211
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THERE IS TAX RELIEF ON IT become a muslim and convert one room of your house to prayer and recieve a 25% discount on your council tax . thats what i was told by someone i know who lives in and around bristol dont know how true this is but with councils these days its believeable
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This story is one of those 'us and them' racist myths that gain credence when they are peddled in online forums. Sadly, it seems there are many people prepared to take them at face value.
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#219
Les, thank you for your reasoned reply!
Nope sorry, the strongest guide to my acceptance of what's what is EVIDENCE! Therein lies the fundamental difference.
We agree!
Yes wonder is part of the human experience, agreed. Yes there are things science cant explain. Agreed. However my point of view is science cant explain them... YET! It is that sense of wonder and thirst for (evidence based) knowledge that is part of the human beings strengths in my view. It has driven homo sapiens into a unique place in life, and will continue to drive progress making life better for everyone. I do find it odd how a true scientist can be religious, it is totally oxymoronic in my view, a living breathing contradiction. My only explaination is that the sense of wonder of the universe overwhelms the rational thought.
I see your point Les. And if it were the case of religious people simply practicing their beliefs in their own homes, doing no one any harm, then I totally agree with you. In a public discussion forum, however, an invalid point of view is fair game to be challenged. It is through discussion and debate that issues and differences are often resolved, hence my resistance to censure on the grounds of "offense" is so strong. There are many topics in life that are capable of causing offense but to sweep them under the carpet does no-one any favours (in the long run - in the short term it favours the people shouting loudest)
Like I said, in public, ideas, all ideas, need to be put to the test, those that pass, we can absorb and build on, those that fail need to be discarded, for the benefit of all.
Nope sorry, the strongest guide to my acceptance of what's what is EVIDENCE! Therein lies the fundamental difference.
We agree!
Yes wonder is part of the human experience, agreed. Yes there are things science cant explain. Agreed. However my point of view is science cant explain them... YET! It is that sense of wonder and thirst for (evidence based) knowledge that is part of the human beings strengths in my view. It has driven homo sapiens into a unique place in life, and will continue to drive progress making life better for everyone. I do find it odd how a true scientist can be religious, it is totally oxymoronic in my view, a living breathing contradiction. My only explaination is that the sense of wonder of the universe overwhelms the rational thought.
I see your point Les. And if it were the case of religious people simply practicing their beliefs in their own homes, doing no one any harm, then I totally agree with you. In a public discussion forum, however, an invalid point of view is fair game to be challenged. It is through discussion and debate that issues and differences are often resolved, hence my resistance to censure on the grounds of "offense" is so strong. There are many topics in life that are capable of causing offense but to sweep them under the carpet does no-one any favours (in the long run - in the short term it favours the people shouting loudest)
Like I said, in public, ideas, all ideas, need to be put to the test, those that pass, we can absorb and build on, those that fail need to be discarded, for the benefit of all.
Nothing wrong with discussing all these matters, more a good thing in many respects as long as it is done in a civilised fashion.
You can say I don't believe in such and such with reasons even, and that is fair enough, but its the way it is done that is significant.
Accusing those who have a different outlook of being loonies is an unpleasant and in my opinion innaccurate way of going about it. I note what John Banks was saying in that connection also. I was disappointed in his inferences.
Do you really think that the average Christian is mad and should even be considered should be locked away? Like with most peoples or tribes in the world, there is a belief that there just could be an all powerful being who is responsible for it all. Just how that being is revered is down to the peoples concerned, but those kinds of beliefs have been present since time began, it is a natural progression for things that cannot be explained. Does not make them into loonies.
The more modern way of thinking is based on scientific discoveries which is hardly surprising, but there is a distinct lack of answers to it all there too. Scientists love to take a whole lot of facts, put them all together and think of a name for the bits that are missing to prove their theories. So many are prepared to accept what they say may be the case at face value even though it has not been proved. That of course also applies to the Christian religion, so you have to make your own choices. I did mention conscience didn't I? It a very powerful part of our thinking and should not be ignored if you are going to be honest with yourself.
There are many mysteries which we do not have the answers for. I don't disbelieve the Big Bang theory, but where did that singularity come from? Matter cannot be created nor destroyed they say! We have scientific laws, is it possible that they could be different in other parts of the Universe? Where did life come from. We can mix up a load of amino acids, but can we turn it into something which is alive? We can only work with things that are alive in the first place! Some might even call life a "miracle" I also cannot believe that there is no other life in the Universe.
People sometimes try to attack by bringing up Evolution saying it disproves religion entirely. Of course it doesn't, it happens and cannot be denied, but it is a pretty amazing thing too when you think about it.
It is a lot to consider and I have not scratched the surface. I personally try to keep things as simple as possible. I have my own beliefs and accept that we all are in the same boat and that we have our own way of thinking too.
I think that religion is always a bad subject to discuss too deeply because of the disagreements that will arise and nothing of value is likely to come out of the ensuing arguments. Neither am I going to to get into the nitty gritty of what is written in the bible since I neither wrote nor translated it!
All I ask is that since I will respect other people's beliefs that I get the same treatment in return since I don't really enjoy being called a madman etc. because my thoughts are different to some others'. That is no basis for the truth.
Les
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#222
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#226
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I just fail to see where (and why?) we have gone from immigrants to soldiers, where is the connection, the thread has run for 8 pages relating to islam/immigrants then you throw soldiers and IRA into it?
#227
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Einstein RA - with respect, I doubt a Yorkshire man would actually understand what went on in Northern Ireland and things were a wee bit more complicated than what you say.
Regardless though, your post has nothing to do with immigrants and I also fail to see what you're at?
Regardless though, your post has nothing to do with immigrants and I also fail to see what you're at?
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Einstein RA - with respect, I doubt a Yorkshire man would actually understand what went on in Northern Ireland and things were a wee bit more complicated than what you say.
Regardless though, your post has nothing to do with immigrants and I also fail to see what you're at?
Regardless though, your post has nothing to do with immigrants and I also fail to see what you're at?
Also what has immigration got to do with Islam? With many muslims being second and third generation British citizens and many from the indiginous population, where does immigration figure? I fail to see your point.
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Oops thats right, the UK's primary religion is Muslim by default lol
Immigrants came and with them came Islam, cant believe you honestly asked that TBH, are you an immigrant by any chance?
Many, but not all Muslim's in this country are into there second and third generation, they are still arriving today which would sort of cover immigration would it not?
Immigrants came and with them came Islam, cant believe you honestly asked that TBH, are you an immigrant by any chance?
Many, but not all Muslim's in this country are into there second and third generation, they are still arriving today which would sort of cover immigration would it not?
#234
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You had whatever coverage the journalists deemed most "watchable" or would "feed" most fuel
However - not more please as your post is not in the slightest bit relevant to this thread.
Immigration/Islam/Whatever.
This is primarily an English speaking country.
OK - there's a few exception/oddities.
However none the less our English schools should not need to be able to communicate in 10 or 20 different ******* languages.
Maybe you agree with that too?
Lets say an English family wish to move to a different country (Might not be suich a bad idea soon
What do you think will happen with regards to communication
Will the school ensure that they communicate in "English" - I don't think so.
However - not more please as your post is not in the slightest bit relevant to this thread.
Immigration/Islam/Whatever.
This is primarily an English speaking country.
OK - there's a few exception/oddities.
However none the less our English schools should not need to be able to communicate in 10 or 20 different ******* languages.
Maybe you agree with that too?
Lets say an English family wish to move to a different country (Might not be suich a bad idea soon
What do you think will happen with regards to communication
Will the school ensure that they communicate in "English" - I don't think so.
#235
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You had whatever coverage the journalists deemed most "watchable" or would "feed" most fuel
However - not more please as your post is not in the slightest bit relevant to this thread.
Immigration/Islam/Whatever.
This is primarily an English speaking country.
OK - there's a few exception/oddities.
However none the less our English schools should not need to be able to communicate in 10 or 20 different ******* languages.
Maybe you agree with that too?
Lets say an English family wish to move to a different country (Might not be suich a bad idea soon
What do you think will happen with regards to communication
Will the school ensure that they communicate in "English" - I don't think so.
However - not more please as your post is not in the slightest bit relevant to this thread.
Immigration/Islam/Whatever.
This is primarily an English speaking country.
OK - there's a few exception/oddities.
However none the less our English schools should not need to be able to communicate in 10 or 20 different ******* languages.
Maybe you agree with that too?
Lets say an English family wish to move to a different country (Might not be suich a bad idea soon
What do you think will happen with regards to communication
Will the school ensure that they communicate in "English" - I don't think so.
You're quite right I agree() this is an English speaking nation and that should be the primary language. Schools should teach in English and not attempt to diversify and detract from delivering a good education.
Speaking from a personal point of view I think any individual moving in to another culture/language, should do their level best to integrate and learn the values and languages of their host nation. I will not defend those that refuse to toe the line.
#238
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I find that very hard to believe that Islam only accounts for 3% of the UK population, but then again you know what they say? "There are lies, damned lies and statistics"
#239
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I was being facetious when i said Muslim was the primary religion lol
but, are you telling me in the UK 72% of the population are Christian and 3% Muslim, I would struggle to believe this if thats what you mean
#240
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Like with most peoples or tribes in the world, there is a belief that there just could be an all powerful being who is responsible for it all. Just how that being is revered is down to the peoples concerned, but those kinds of beliefs have been present since time began, it is a natural progression for things that cannot be explained. Does not make them into loonies.
The more modern way of thinking is based on scientific discoveries which is hardly surprising, but there is a distinct lack of answers to it all there too. Scientists love to take a whole lot of facts, put them all together and think of a name for the bits that are missing to prove their theories. So many are prepared to accept what they say may be the case at face value even though it has not been proved.
There are many mysteries which we do not have the answers for. I don't disbelieve the Big Bang theory, but where did that singularity come from? Matter cannot be created nor destroyed they say! We have scientific laws, is it possible that they could be different in other parts of the Universe? Where did life come from. We can mix up a load of amino acids, but can we turn it into something which is alive? We can only work with things that are alive in the first place! Some might even call life a "miracle" I also cannot believe that there is no other life in the Universe.
I think that religion is always a bad subject to discuss too deeply because of the disagreements that will arise and nothing of value is likely to come out of the ensuing arguments. Neither am I going to to get into the nitty gritty of what is written in the bible since I neither wrote nor translated it!
I repeat, that this is not directed at you Les. However to say that a delusional, irrational, non-evidence based belief system deserves my respect, well, words fail me. Why does it deserve respect? Out of politeness? Or because its true? Do you not see the hypocracy of rational arguing on behalf of an irrational idea? Im sorry, but respect is earned not given, and people who are so disjointed from reality need help. They might well be functioning adults but they are delusional, its as simple as that really.