Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

No offence, but as stated they have had 13 years to do something about it.

There is little point bitching and blaming different people for what happened in decades gone by. It's about what happens in the present, and what has happened is nothing to solve or attempt to solve this issue.

I'm working class, and don't want to see Labour carry on, they don't help the working class particularly, they help the underclass.

GC8

At least you knew where you were the the proper Labour party. They werent any good: but Id trust them over this shower of b*stards.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I can't remember that. I can only just remember Maggie, but not well at all.

Lee247

In 13 years, this shower have introduced thousands of silly laws, tried to turn us into a bunch of pc mamby pambies, taken as much money from us workers as they possibly can and would try to take more, if they got back in, made motoring no longer a pleasure but a luxury, brought thousands of people into the Country, so much so we are fit to burst, gave millions of tax payers money to the undeserving scroungers, given money to immigrants to send back to families in their homeland, not given enough to our troops, helped themselves disgracefully in expenses and lined their own pockets, made a mockery of the law with ridiculous sentences, has no backbone to speak of.

Phew!!!!! And that is just a few things I find very, very wrong with this bunch of wasters

speedy steve

No question, the current shower of mickey mouse politicians are as usual interested in nothing but their own salaries & how much they can skim from the country before being ousted....

There is no real option available at this time, all are as bad as each other..

Its kinda like the police force really, anyone who wants to be a politician shouldn't be allowed the position.

I was very young when Maggie was in power but do remember that basically the philosophy then was "market forces apply" if you worked your *** off you made money & had a decent life, ( yuppies ) if you sat on your *** and drew from the "brew" you were considered the scum of the earth.

Makes more sense than being utterly useless to society and getting paid for it as per the family in the original post, I do not know what %age of the population is "unemployed" these days but I would bet at least 30% of them are in that position by choice.

I've been unemployed ( briefly many years ago ) and frankly I was so ashamed of it I couldn't wait to find any job to stop me having to sign on with the scum that frequented the dole office..

True, MT was in power when the UK mining / steel production & shipbuilding industries effectively bit the dust, but you can really blame the unions for that, I remember Arthur Scargill (SP) what a complete self preoccupied **** he was, basically tried to insight a national revolt based on socialist ideals, not much of a surprise Maggie was forced to crush the unions ( flying pickets... basically terrorists without the bombs in my opinion )

Its really very simple, if you want the country to recover in any way kick the illegals out 1st, set a time limit on how long you can claim unemployment
( say 6 months and that's being very generous ) limit child benefit to the first 2 children, after that pay for the rug-rats yourself......

Its a brutal idea I know & never gonna happen in this P.C. / gutless society lets face it the whole worlds going to ****, even the US is turning into a nanny state...

& you wonder why the NHS is screwed ? think about it twice as many people using it as are contributing, without a major shake up the UK will be in as much debt as any other 3rd rate country...

If this makes me a Conservative "****" so be it, the BNP have some good ideas but their manifesto is so full of racist garbage that they have no credibility, I don't care what colour / race / religion you are if you ain't working ( without a decent reason, not including being a drunk ! ) then your a drain on society & should be dealt with in an appropriate manner not given an easy life...........( conscription springs to mind or at least community service in order to receive a dole check..... )

Flame suit on & sealed............

boomer

+2

mb

dsmith

I love how the anti-maggie class warriors always simply ignore or gloss over the steaming pile of sh8t that was the state of the country the previous labour government left in 1979 because they were unable to control their union paymasters and unwilling to take any decisive action to avert disaster.

The inability of the unions to move with the times and help make uk industry competitive in a global economy led to more being lost than should have been. I predict they will do the same to the public sector. Cuts will have to be harder and deeper the more the necessary trimming of the excess is resisted by the unions.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL at you. A fool and an imbecile ... nice going. What makes you so special? Nothing I suspect. Certainly not your aptitude for intelligent debate.

Anyway if you don't think someone who destroyed whole communities over a petty argument with a union leader or who took us into a war that didn't need to be fought (if she had only pursued diplomacy) so she could win an election an evil bitch then that really is your problem.

Funny how so many on here have a lot to say about Blair and Iraq yet conveniently forget about Thatcher's Falklands!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

What is all this class warrior nonsense. I don't like Maggie so I'm a class warrior. What sort of idiotic logic is that?

Anyway no one is saying that dear old Margaret did not do some good to a country that was in a right mess when she won power. My problem is what came later..... and the legacy she left behind. Her policies led directly to the greed is good I'm alright Jack culture that blights our society today and ironically (not that any of you will believe it) to part of the reason we have been hit harder in this recession than some.

cster

You only need to use diplomacy if you are going to fight a war you can't win IMO. If only Blair had figured that one out.
Communities destroyed, or freed from generations of meaningless labour in coal mines? The sort of drudgery usually reserved for slaves, or in more socially enlightened times - dissidents?
Freeing them from even worse - being lead by an utter self serving "socialist" like Scargill - yesterdays George Galloway - where's the f*cking dignity in that?
ps do you think the "evil bitch" comment shows an aptitude for intelligent debate?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Or maybe diplomcay would have stopped all that loss of life, but as long as we wone the war that's OK

So she freed the coal miners??? Now that is spin LOL! Yeah she freed them to sign on and live the rest of their life on the dole. What a heroine

Oh and in what way does my describing Thatcher as an evil bitch detract from my aptitude for intelligent debate? If it was the only comment I made then you would have an argument, but it isn't therefore you don't.

Oh and can I presume all of you so disapproving of the evil bitch tag will show the same amount of disapproval for the next person who calls Blair evil or a liar or Brown a one eyed idiot..... No, thought not! NSR, the spiritual home of hyprocisy!!!

dnc

This is Scoobynet.................we are allowed to be hypocrites from time to time .

Leslie

Old Labour were honourable people and they worked for the people of this country even if their economic sense was rubbish.

Maggie Thatcher also supported our country above everything and even though she had to institute hard policies it was done for the good of this country, not for her personal gain, and she had to drag this country out of a financial mess and save it from the attacks of the communist inspired unions of the time.

This last lot have concentrated on destroying everything that this country stood for and they have gone a very long way to succeed. They want to hand us over to a corrupt organisation which will destroy any semblance of democracy that we still have officially even if it has been tragically weakened by this bunch of charlatans, and all for their own future gain.

Les

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

So an invading army takes the Falklands and we just use diplomacy? Great message there.

Didn't work with Cyprus, did it? Only 7 years previous

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

If you do some reading you will find that Thatcher had ample opportunity to discuss the Falkland islands with Argentina whenthey threatened the invasion, but BEFORE they were invaded. Opportunities she ignored and one has to wonder why

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Before you patronise any further I suggest YOU do some reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...zation_Process

The gorvernment of Argentina at the time was a forces lead dictatorship that was experiencing civil unrest due to woeful neglect of national interests, high unemployment and huge inflation.

The Falklands was the last desperate hurrah to win back the support of the nation, which failed and afterward even the army disowned the government.

Google 'Junta' and tell me those people were open to diplomacy

The Zohan

I think you will find that Maggie did not get into discussions with the Arentinians because there wasn't any point. Falklands are British and that's how she saw it. She stood by her guns even though some in Europe and other parts of the world wanted otherwise, she had belief in what she was doing was right, she had the country behind her and she stuck to her guns and won.

The Argentinain gov't wanted war because their ecomony was in melt down and the gov't saw this as a away of uniting the country and getting support from South America, Spain, etc.



F1 are you anti-British or very far to the left, politics wise i wonder?

mrtheedge2u2

F1, while you are googling you can also ask the families of the 30,000 of the "disappeared" if the junta were open to diplomacy

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nothing to do with being left wing. I just believe that war should be the absolute last resort, Iraq being a good case in point. We did not exhaust diplomacy there and instead went charging in based on some sketchy evidence at best of WMD rather than carry on pursuing UN brokered negotiations.

The Falklands was no different. Prior to the invasion Peru and Switzerland brokered a deal to get all parties round the table. Thatcher refused. Now you can say what you like about the Argentinians being not open to diplomacy, but my point is she should have tried. Of course we all know why she didn't.

P.S. Nothing to do wth googling, a close friend of my family was involved at the diplomatic level - I know a little bit about what went on.

mrtheedge2u2

F1, If someone walked into your house tonight and said it is now theirs would you throw the ******* straight out or would you call the UN in to negotiate a deal?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

This was before the invasion as alreay stated!

mrtheedge2u2

Ok. If someone said they were gonna take over your house..... would you even entertain a peace deal or just tell them to do one?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think yiou are clutching at straws now, but I will play along.

Let me enhance your question a bit.

If someone said they were going to take over your house and you had the option of trying diplomacy first thereby guranteeing no loss of life if it was successful versus telling them to do one but the likelihood being that some members of your household would be killed in the ensuing scuffle.... what would you do?

Devildog

Personally I don't have a problem with the term evil bitch when applied to MT. To be honest I'd consider it a term of enderement

We needed an evil bitch to deal with the unions.

F1 fan, If you honestly think that Thatcher brought the unions to their knees over a petty argument, it is you who needs to open your eyes beyond what was obviously a bitter personal experience for you.

This discussion has been had many times, but you seem to be on a personal crusade. We get the point, you didn't like her and she apparently (directly or indirectly) made your life a misery back then.

The UK would have been on its knees had the unions not been stripped of their influence and power. No one is denying that for thousands it was an horrendous time, but for the good of the millions it had to be done.

The union leaders were never in it for their members then, just as they are not in it for ther members now. Its all about ego and power. Not much different from politicians, in fact. Their approach was strangling those sectors anyway and a painfull and lingering death was inevitable. All Thatcher did was put them out of their misery a bit faster, with the added bonus that the balance of power shifted.

If even the likes of Healy and Hattersly concede that she did a good job, then perhaps you should take the blinkers off.

I have the dipleasure of contact with unions from an "employers" perspective even today. I've first hand experience of jumped up wannabe powerbrokers being prepared to cost the jobs of those in who's best interest they are supposed to act to simply score some points for themselves.

And that's with the union mentality being very much watered down from days past.

mrtheedge2u2

Sorry matey, if someone was thinking to take what was mine ie house or car or whatever then they have already gone too far.

As soon as someone has already made up their mind that they wanted it then the time for talking has gone.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

DD, Two points.

1) There is a wealth of difference between breaking a union stranglehold on an industry and killing the industry completely.

2) Funny how you say that my point of view is down to how she made my life a misery. She didn't and my life was OK, but my point is she made a lot of people's life a misery and if you believe in a society rather than a group of individuals all fending for themselves then you would not exaclty be her biggest fan. As she once famously said there is no such thing as society and she sure made sure that became a home truth.... that is her biggest legacy and depsite all the ills of the 70s at least people then pulled together.... they don't now and that started with her.

Now I know you will label me a rabid old socialist and maybe on that score I am, but I do believe in society and the concept of everyone helping everyone else, actually that's not far off what Cameron has been saying... shock horror.... pity he doesn't mean it.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

And that my friend is where we differ. The difference if you like, between Bill Clinton and George Bush

The Zohan

+1

mrtheedge2u2

Industries come and indutries go. It will happen to oil workers also one day in the future. When the world moves on there are always gonna be casualties.

You cannot maintain industries that are obselete in a modern world. if it was not MT then whoever was in power at a particular point would of had to do it.