I guess these lot will be voting labour
06 May 2010, 03:01 PM
#61
Scooby Regular
DD, Two points.
1) There is a wealth of difference between breaking a union stranglehold on an industry and killing the industry completely.
2) Funny how you say that my point of view is down to how she made my life a misery. She didn't and my life was OK, but my point is she made a lot of people's life a misery and if you believe in a society rather than a group of individuals all fending for themselves then you would not exaclty be her biggest fan. As she once famously said there is no such thing as society and she sure made sure that became a home truth.... that is her biggest legacy and depsite all the ills of the 70s at least people then pulled together.... they don't now and that started with her.
Now I know you will label me a rabid old socialist and maybe on that score I am, but I do believe in society and the concept of everyone helping everyone else, actually that's not far off what Cameron has been saying... shock horror.... pity he doesn't mean it.
1) There is a wealth of difference between breaking a union stranglehold on an industry and killing the industry completely.
2) Funny how you say that my point of view is down to how she made my life a misery. She didn't and my life was OK, but my point is she made a lot of people's life a misery and if you believe in a society rather than a group of individuals all fending for themselves then you would not exaclty be her biggest fan. As she once famously said there is no such thing as society and she sure made sure that became a home truth.... that is her biggest legacy and depsite all the ills of the 70s at least people then pulled together.... they don't now and that started with her.
Now I know you will label me a rabid old socialist and maybe on that score I am, but I do believe in society and the concept of everyone helping everyone else, actually that's not far off what Cameron has been saying... shock horror.... pity he doesn't mean it.
The breakdown in social values may well have been started in the 80's. Whether it was Thatcher's fault or not is something that may be debated to death. What is clear, however, is that successive governments have done nothing to address it. And that, to me, is much, much, worse.
I would happily pay more tax if I knew that my contribution was being used for the good of society as a whole. To ultimately improve the quality of life of everyone deserving of it. Be that ligitimate recipients of benefits or someone with £1m in the bank. I wouldn't discriminate on the basis of wealth.
Maybe she was the evil bitch who started the breakdown in social values, or maybe like the climate, it was changing anyway and she was just pragmatic enough to see that.
Thinking the world owes you a living is jsut as bad, if not worse, of looking after yourself at the expense of others. And for sure Labour has a lot to answer for on that score.
Maybe Cameron will come good on his promise if he wins. Maybe he won't. One thing is for sure though, its not going to get any better under Brown and co.
Last edited by Devildog; 06 May 2010 at 03:05 PM.
06 May 2010, 04:49 PM
#64
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No offence, but as stated they have had 13 years to do something about it.
There is little point bitching and blaming different people for what happened in decades gone by. It's about what happens in the present, and what has happened is nothing to solve or attempt to solve this issue.
I'm working class, and don't want to see Labour carry on, they don't help the working class particularly, they help the underclass.
There is little point bitching and blaming different people for what happened in decades gone by. It's about what happens in the present, and what has happened is nothing to solve or attempt to solve this issue.
I'm working class, and don't want to see Labour carry on, they don't help the working class particularly, they help the underclass.
I wasn't blaming anyone I certainly wasn't defending the current government and I wasn't bitching, I was stating a fact!!
Sorry if you don't like it
06 May 2010, 05:55 PM
#67
Or maybe diplomcay would have stopped all that loss of life, but as long as we wone the war that's OK 
So she freed the coal miners??? Now that is spin LOL! Yeah she freed them to sign on and live the rest of their life on the dole. What a heroine
Oh and in what way does my describing Thatcher as an evil bitch detract from my aptitude for intelligent debate? If it was the only comment I made then you would have an argument, but it isn't therefore you don't.
Oh and can I presume all of you so disapproving of the evil bitch tag will show the same amount of disapproval for the next person who calls Blair evil or a liar or Brown a one eyed idiot..... No, thought not! NSR, the spiritual home of hyprocisy!!!
So she freed the coal miners??? Now that is spin LOL! Yeah she freed them to sign on and live the rest of their life on the dole. What a heroine
Oh and in what way does my describing Thatcher as an evil bitch detract from my aptitude for intelligent debate? If it was the only comment I made then you would have an argument, but it isn't therefore you don't.
Oh and can I presume all of you so disapproving of the evil bitch tag will show the same amount of disapproval for the next person who calls Blair evil or a liar or Brown a one eyed idiot..... No, thought not! NSR, the spiritual home of hyprocisy!!!
Looks like they have just found oil in the falklands
http://www.rockhopperexploration.co....very_FINAL.pdf
Good old maggie she knew what was coming in the new millenium and had the foresight to secure our oil intrests
07 May 2010, 01:18 AM
#68
Or maybe diplomcay would have stopped all that loss of life, but as long as we wone the war that's OK
So she freed the coal miners??? Now that is spin LOL! Yeah she freed them to sign on and live the rest of their life on the dole. What a heroine
Oh and in what way does my describing Thatcher as an evil bitch detract from my aptitude for intelligent debate? If it was the only comment I made then you would have an argument, but it isn't therefore you don't.
Oh and can I presume all of you so disapproving of the evil bitch tag will show the same amount of disapproval for the next person who calls Blair evil or a liar or Brown a one eyed idiot..... No, thought not! NSR, the spiritual home of hyprocisy!!!
So she freed the coal miners??? Now that is spin LOL! Yeah she freed them to sign on and live the rest of their life on the dole. What a heroine
Oh and in what way does my describing Thatcher as an evil bitch detract from my aptitude for intelligent debate? If it was the only comment I made then you would have an argument, but it isn't therefore you don't.
Oh and can I presume all of you so disapproving of the evil bitch tag will show the same amount of disapproval for the next person who calls Blair evil or a liar or Brown a one eyed idiot..... No, thought not! NSR, the spiritual home of hyprocisy!!!
I am not sure why someone who no longer works in a coal mine should be obliged to spend the rest of their life on the dole - I guess that must be the imperative of the Social welfare system we all work so hard to maintain.
As relates to diplomacy - I guess talk may have induced the Argentines to vacate the Falkland Islands - but I am guessing a whiff of grapeshot was more conducive.
But as they say - Talk is cheap.
Last edited by cster; 07 May 2010 at 01:19 AM.
07 May 2010, 01:47 AM
#69
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Do you mean that anyone who wants to be a cop should not be?
Police officers aren't allowed to take a public stand in elections. Police officers are forced to remain neutral during elections (if not they are open to charges of misconduct in a public offfice). Police officers are not allowed to enter political premises once an election has been called -as they could be seen as an influence.
Or do you mean that any police officer who wants to be important in the force (ranked) should not be allowed to be?
You'll find that most police officers who 'do' the job, rather than those who are just in it for promotion and a pension, are well aware that no matter what they do, they will always be shafted and are more at risk, by those who are ranked and after further promotion, than they are from whichever useless bunch of useless ***** make it into power from this election.
07 May 2010, 07:13 AM
#70
I am guessing he has read Plato's "The Republic" and alludes to the idea of the ideal leader not being the type of person who yearns for power.
Could be wrong though.
Worth a read none the less IMO.
Could be wrong though.
Worth a read none the less IMO.
07 May 2010, 07:28 AM
#71
I wasn't aiming the bitching comment specifically at you. The point is many people harp back blaming previous governments for the ills we see today, and the real fact is this one have had 13 years to change things. When it comes to the issue that this thread was discussing, it matters little what has gone before, labour have had 13 years to sort the benefits system out and if anything the issue appears to have become worse if anything, it's not like they've only been in power 5 minutes. Just my opinion.
07 May 2010, 02:10 PM
#73
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The issue is the situation won't change.
Example, Cameron's 'free care for the elderly' promise.
In the debate he stood up and said "Why should someone who has been feckless get free care when those who have worked and saved risk losing their house to pay for their care?"
Excellent line and one we can all agree with.
However, his solution is "give us £8000 on reaching retirement and we'll guarantee you 'free' care"
Firstly it costs £8000 so it isn't free. Secondly, the feckless person nextdoor, never done a days work still gets it for free.
Not one single party in this mash of a government will do or can do a thing about that. They will still reward the idle and punish those that earn modest amounts the most.
5t.
Example, Cameron's 'free care for the elderly' promise.
In the debate he stood up and said "Why should someone who has been feckless get free care when those who have worked and saved risk losing their house to pay for their care?"
Excellent line and one we can all agree with.
However, his solution is "give us £8000 on reaching retirement and we'll guarantee you 'free' care"
Firstly it costs £8000 so it isn't free. Secondly, the feckless person nextdoor, never done a days work still gets it for free.
Not one single party in this mash of a government will do or can do a thing about that. They will still reward the idle and punish those that earn modest amounts the most.
5t.
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