bigsinky

i have been known to do some HR training in my time, mostly consultancy now.

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

Thought so right, back to scoobys

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I can tell the managers here.

BS, I see what you say completely. Whilst I have had to take time off work, I have actually had a genuine reason for it without telling this BBS all the details. I do actually appreciate the needs of a business etc. as whislt I may have needed time off, I do have a strong work ethic and don't have time for people who phone in sick at the first opportunity, but the fact of life is, whist it may be an inconvenience for employers, people do get sick, in whatever capacity. What I am saying is, if there is no flexibility on the employers part for whatever reason, this new system is pointless, you may as well stay with the old system and go from there.

In my situation, I do a fairly manual job, but there are many ways to adjust this role without any real harm to the company, I know this for fact. And in whatever way they do this they will be better off than me not being there. I think half the problem is that regardless of how I feel, I will put my all in to not let people down and do my best. If like some I didn't give a crap, I would've just stayed on the sick and I was getting paid so I wasn't worse off. I wanted to get back to work and not let people down, all I was asking was for a little lee way in what I do. Which would've been perfectly possible.

As for 555EFC, I thought I had it bad, glad I don't work for you. Again I appreciate how things are from a mangement pov, but again people get sick etc and whislt they don't want to let a company down, it happens. I think what employers need to do is be good enough in their role to sort the wheat from the shaft. People will take the ****, and some won't and it's about knowing the difference.

I had an operation a couple of years ago, and in no capacity could I work after just 10 days, so it's fair I get a disciplinary? I couldn't help it, it needed to be done. Whislt I understand how things work, that is just unfair. Someone phoning up every two minutes with a hangover, do something about, but genuine illness......

Also, in that case. How would you deal with my Mam. She had cancer. Obviously dealing with that meant time off work, more than 10 days funnily enough. Would you genuinely put her on a disciplinary/sack her because of that. **** me, I'm so glad at least she works for somewhere decent (unlike me) that has really helped her out. Or unlike you from the sound of it.

Not everything is black and white. I know businesses have their primary concerns, but they should be flexible, especially when it comes to decent staff and telling them apart.

Bin the **** takers by all means, but any decent manager can tell the difference and it is perfectly possible to amend policy case by case.

Leslie

If you get a doctor's note she can say no more-probably the easiest solution.

Les

bigsinky

Lisa, re the flexibility thing, i totally agree with you, but you will find that a lot of smaller businesses (<100 employees) find it hard to operate and make profit if they are fighting an absence problem. Not so bad if you work for a company that employs 8500 people like I do.


You are correct, studies have shown that people are better getting back to work quickly after a spell of sickness.


Lisa, i wish i had a 100 more like you. unfortunately we have people who see their 3 periods and 9 days as a god given right each year.


The problem is Lisa, managers are not prepared to make those difficult decisions for fear of tribunal or discrimination case.

In our place hospitalisation to fix an underlying problem is not counted for warning purposes. I would have said that mitigating circumstances apply. now while we have the 4 periods/10days thing we do allow for individual circumstances.

If i was your manager, you would be told to take as much time as you need and we will sort something out when you come back.

You're right, it is not black and white and is a very subjective subject. Yes, businesses need to provide value for money and make savings and provide dividends to shareholders, but they have to weigh that up against what sort of working environment their staff have. Mangers are supposed to foster a "harmonious" working environment, free from stress, bullying, harrassment and are supposed to exercise a bit of gumption when dealing with HR problems. HR is 90% thinking with the head and 10% applying the policy.

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

lets not get too up set its a Subaru forum, all I can offer is the perspective from my side of the fence > it is black and white, it is either authorised or unauthorised absence, in your instance it is unauthorised and that is how it would be treated > the reason why? is fairness in dealing with every employee in the same way.

Please note I stated you may be invited to a disciplinary hearing > I did not state you would recieve a disciplinary warning. at the hearing you would be given the oportunity to explain your reasons for absence and then a decision would be taken.

And unfortunately if someone (even me) was suffering from a terminal illness then the business would need to make a decision on there likely return to work, if there not coming back to work, well.....

Please dont take the points above personally, it is a way of thinking for every employee, clear guide lines

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=bigsinky;9411107]Lisa, re the flexibility thing, i totally agree with you, but you will find that a lot of smaller businesses (<100 employees) find it hard to operate and make profit if they are fighting an absence problem. Not so bad if you work for a company that employs 8500 people like I do.[QUOTE]

This is the strangest part as I would assume the same. However, my Mam for example works for a tiny business with less than 100 staff in total, but they are so flexible in every way it's unbelievable (the staff winge like buggers though, don't know they're born) Yet I work for a company with well over 20,000 employees, and they are crap, plain and simple.


[QUOTE]You are correct, studies have shown that people are better getting back to work quickly after a spell of sickness.[QUOTE]

Exaclty, so in a large company, you would think (especially when they are hassling you and offering to be flexible) that they would actually put that into practice. I do feel even in a large company, people are better off at work where possible. If you can't be, you can't be, but if fairly easy adjustments can be made, to me it's sense to make them i.e. swap roles of staff to allow for this. It's better than paying someone to sit at home.


[QUOTE]Lisa, i wish i had a 100 more like you. unfortunately we have people who see their 3 periods and 9 days as a god given right each year.[QUOTE]

That is a very nice thing to say. Some people just view it as a bit of 'extra holiday' That's why it's annoying when it's genuine but you get lumped into standard policy. We have many staff who will happily let the team down as they have a little cold, or a hangover and it is maddening. I don't want to let my collegues or managers down, I have a good work ethic, but it is so frustrating that you are treated the same as those **** takers, and that it isn't even appreciated that you want/trying to return, just asking for some help.


[QUOTE]The problem is Lisa, managers are not prepared to make those difficult decisions for fear of tribunal or discrimination case.[QUOTE]

I do totally appreciate that. I think it's just annoying something can't be done from both perspectives. Basically people taking the pee get away with it pretty much (if they don't care about a warning) and score for some extra time off, yet those who do care and don't want to be ill or let people down feel like they are being crapped on, as they are tarred with the same brush. I think this is a harsh reality of life. If you care and don't abuse systems whether it be at work/benefits etc. you have little help or are no more thought of, then those who just don't care end up fine really, basically as they don't care. So long as they don't go too far, on paper they will look the same as someone like me for example.


[QUOTE]In our place hospitalisation to fix an underlying problem is not counted for warning purposes. I would have said that mitigating circumstances apply. now while we have the 4 periods/10days thing we do allow for individual circumstances.[QUOTE]

We have a similar policy It isn't restricted on days, just periods of absence. However, if you were to be hospitalised, it would still count towards a warning if you totted up on periods off work. This has happened to staff. I appreciate these measures are in place to try to cut down on absence and more importantly the abuse and encourage people not to take time off for any little thing (especially as we get full pay from day one, if management agree it is genuine). I just feel individual circumstances should be taken into account sometimes. I was admitted into hospital, and I know that will count as one period. Now while I don't intend to be off again, you just can't forsee these things, even more so as they still don't know what is wrong with me. I am still unwell, and heaven help me when I come off my tablets (as they seem to be helping, side effects aside). I will soldier on as best as possible though. I don't like being off work, I get sick of my own company if nothing else.


I wish my place did. The worst part about this for me, is it's a shop. There is alot of play for accomodating people. I can imagine in some businesses there isn't the room to be flexible, and as such some other options would have to be looked at, but in a job like mine that isn't the case. They have to do it for pregnant people, for example they'll put them on a till if their role becomes too demanding and they choose to get that way. Yet me, I show willing and nothing, I get moved to a 'lighter' section, but still on my feet all day, and it's not fooking lighter. I've worked harder than ever I think, but it's my nature to crack on and not say anything to the detriment of myself. They have no compassion at all. That said, I don't help myself as I don't say I'm struggling, partly as it's not my way and partly because I know they wouldn't care anyway.

I think I should just go into management, at my place that's an easy job.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I fooked up the quotes.

I've never got the hang of that.

hodgy0_2

sounds better