f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ah so he doesnt turn left after Vettel puills alongside? Well what a surprise

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Oh for goodness sake.

Vettel is Red Bull's future, Webber isn't. Surely even you can work that out.... nah maybe not.

EddScott

Thats what I thought too but :-

As for steering wheel movement when they slow it down on the forum Mark moves left at first to squeeze Seb then does start moving to the right. Theres a little movement left but think thats more from bumps. Seb is on the white line, needs to move over for the corner and OK, possibly wants to give Mark a "fright" to make him move.

Racing incident IMO

EDIT - as a side note anyone catch the 1, 2, for the Brits in Indy 500

mart360

Your statement is pointless!

Regardless of where Webber was on the track, Vettel pulled alongside him,

and then for reasons unknown drove into him.

Would Vettel have been able to brake and make the turn into the corner

had he muscled Webber out of the way?

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that passing on the inside

before a tight left hander isn't going to work approaching from the inside

of the track.

Vettel drove into Webber end of

davyboy

So basically you think Horner is telling lies? Not even a little big of truth in what he is saying? With the evidence if data, and time to speak to both drivers, you think he would come out and lie about the guy leading the world championship? You are dumber than I thought.

davyboy

Frankly, so is yours. Good this isn't it?

davyboy

If = of

Using an iPhone before the grammar police get me!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Oh dear. Your stupidity is exceeded only by your naivety.

davyboy

Let me try and understand your confused state.

In your simple mind, Vettel caused the crash and Horner says on world tv that he lies some blame at Webber. But you think Horner gives favour to Vettel even though he royally ****ed up because he is the future of Redbull?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Oh Lordy you are serious aren't you?

Vettel is a young driver widely considered to be the best young talent in the sport whereas Webber is in the twilight of is career. Red Bull want to build their team around Vettel, Schumacher/Ferrari style, whereas Webber will be retired from F1 within a few years and may well not even be at RB next year.

As team principal which driver would YOU support?

Please try and really understand this. It isn't difficult ... not even for you

davyboy

As a team pricipal I'd come out and say neutral things, like it was a racing incident, I have two great drivers fighting for a race win and a title etc, etc. Keep it within the team etc.

But, as the resident F1 clown, what would you say? Not that anyone will take it seriously, but it should provide a laugh for those that are left still reading.

I mean, you are blaming Vettel in this discussion, but would you...the F1 clown, defend him at the expense of your 'so called' 2nd driver?

MMT WRX

Well I think it was Vettels fault, I thought it when I watched it live and still do after watching countless replays.

I reckon the team were trying to play a flanker on Webber by turning his car down and Vettels up... backfired big stylee on them in the end though.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Leaving aside your childish clown jibes which are made with no wit and even less intelligence I don't think you have the slightest clue as to how the egos of drivers and teams managers work.

Drivers in any topline motorsport need the backing of their peers 100% - they operate at a level you and I, but especially you it would seem, can only dream about and they are actually quite fragile in terms of the slightest thing that gives them the idea they are not receiving the same treatment as their team mate can have catastrophic effects. In fact Webber had a new rear wing on the car this weekend whereas Vettel did not.... makes you wonder doesn't it?

Anyway I digress. As team boss of Red Bull Horner had three options .. blame Vettel and upset his star of the future possibily damaging his ego enough to lose him the championship this year, blame Webber thereby ensuring that at least his star of the future was supported or apportion no blame and risk alienating both of them into thinking the other is being treated better a la Prost/Senna at McLaren or Mansell/Piquet at Williams or to an extent Alonso/Hamilton at McLaren in 2007

Horner wants the WDC in his car, he knows his future is with Vettel, he did the sensible thing for the team and if it upsets Webber enough to knock him sideways so much so that Vettel comes back and wins the championshp he won't be too unhappy either will he now.

Laughing now smart alec?

seppy101

yip vettel is the future and could be as good as shuey, if not better if the reliability issues can be solved. he's the quickest and best driver on the circuit in my opinion and the red bulls better watch out for 2011, ferraru always get their man! hopefully not this one tho.

Funkii Munkii

I noticed this, he didn't even celebrate when he got out of the car, "I think" it might have something to do with the fall out with his dad, probably realises he was an *** and now missing having his dad around hence he dedicated the win to him, it was probably the most subdued I have seen him since he came on the scene.

RA Dunk

I would agree he is quickest, but best? If he dosent get pole during qualifying he's not going to win the race as he cant work his way through the pack if he starts at the back like Hamilton Alosno etc can. He's only good if he starts in front TBH.

davyboy

Yes, circus acts are generally ammusing, and you haven't let me down.

Answer one question for me.

Did Webber turn slightly to the left when he saw Vettel in his mirror?

Simple yes or no will do.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

And people of a low IQ generally aren't and you are no exception.

I think we answered the question already didn't we? Webber makes no move after Vettel pulls alongside. As Mart has already pointed out to you. God you are slow!!

davyboy

OK, our discussion is over at this point. Just because Mart agrees with you, doesn't make you right.

There are others on this thread who have said he does make a move. Indeed the BBC forum shows it and discusses it in great detail. If anyone has watched the BBC forum and can actually say he didn't move left (to avoid a bump or other) I find simply astonishing.

Until we come to an agreement on that, then discussing the physhe of an F1 driver is a waste of time.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

How convenient.

The point is that once Vettel IS ALONGSIDE Webber DOES NOT make any move. As for whether he moves slightly left before is irrelevant.

As for discussing driver psyche (note the spelling please) I think you know when you are beaten which means you are actually cleverer than I thought, not much though

Anyway as this was your last contribution I would say it has been nice talking to you, but I am not a liar so I won't.

StickyMicky

It is not the grammar police you have to worry about these days

The Android Special Task Force will give you ultimate pain

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

*holds finger up in the air*

There was a crash?

Leslie

I am interested in how so many know exactly what the drivers were thinking at the time!

Les

davyboy

That's not the point, the point is (and I made this quite clear) that Webber is not totally blameless.....

But you now think he did move 'slighly left', but before Vettel was alongside and you think this doesn't matter?

davyboy

Only 1 person claims to know what a driver thinks, despite not being able to see a car change direction.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Sorry, thought the previous was your last contribution? Not exactly a man of your word are you?

Back to basics ...Vettel is alongside for (relatively) quite some time and Webber has left him room for his car which is all he has to do. Vettel then turns right into him. How can that be Webber's fault in any way?

What happens before is not really important is it?

Now please get that through your thick skull!!!!

davyboy

LOL

Earlier in the thread you angrily typed this. So try not to go on about a man and his word.

I said our discussion is over unless you stay with the point in question, which you are now managing to do, although you still seem rather angry.....and wrong

He could have given him more room instead of moving left and squeezing him. As Horner said, (before he spoke to the drivers) he wants his drivers should give each other room on the track. Webber did the opposite.

I'm not saying I'd not have done the same, I imagine it's a natural reaction to try and stop someone coming past, but he moved left (you can see this from his steering inputs and from Vettels onboard) and squeezed him. How anyone can deny that took place I find incredible. I'm not entirely sure it matters if he did it before he was alongside, or when he alongside...the car moved left, a change in the direction it was travelling.

I can only suggest you've not watched the BBC forum footage, you did mention that you didn't need to watch it again....but I think you do.

My point again - Mark Webber is not totally blameless.

P1Fanatic

I was about to type the exact same thing and not just based on this season. Not leading from the start and hes struggled to make an impact and his head seems to drop. In terms of overall ability I dont think anyone can deny Lewis and Alonso are the better drivers at least in terms of ability to overtake when needed and work their way through the pack.

Red Bull are in a similar position that Brawn were in last year as have far superior downforce shown by their domination of every qualifying session. Yet they havent turned that into wins where they should have.

Simon

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes he is. You are wrong and no amount of trying (and failing) to present an argument otherwise is going to convince me.

So you are welcome to your opinion as wrong as it is and I will keep mine .... that's the one shared by just about everyione outside of Vettel, Horner and... well you actually

GlesgaKiss

Think davyboy must be trolling again.

Two cars alongside each other on a race track; both cars have the right to hold their positions on a straight. Webber was clearly holding his position and clearly giving Vettel plenty of room. Vettel then, for some reason, moves to the right into webber's path. Therefore who can be blamed other than Vettel? I know it's 'nice' to be diplomatic and obviously I'm not an expert working for Red Bull, but common-sense would only lead you to one conclusion.