And It Begins Tomorrow .....
21 June 2010, 08:34 PM
#31
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The tax thresholds are already screwed in real terms by fiscal drag due to inflation and devaluation of the pound, and in world terms our wages and houses are worth much less than they were before the pound devalued.
I fully expect my wife to be out of a job and to be paying more tax on less income, with higher pension contributions for a less valuable pension that can only be taken later.
And I think it is all necessary and voted for it.
I fully expect my wife to be out of a job and to be paying more tax on less income, with higher pension contributions for a less valuable pension that can only be taken later.
And I think it is all necessary and voted for it.
21 June 2010, 08:41 PM
#32
i dont mind paying extra tax to pay off some of the debt this year. labour would have closed their eyes to it for another 12 months.
one positive is benefits will be cut.
one positive is benefits will be cut.
21 June 2010, 08:43 PM
#33
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Don't get me wrong ... I'm not saying we must not cut - just not yet, let's get the recovery well under way first.
The Tories have made the wrong calls all the way through the recession, as is fully documented - I think they are calling it wrong again.
Yes, cut benefits .... but get ready for a crimewave, the lazy gits will still want their SKY+, ciggies, export and betting slips - they will steal for it if they get no benefits.
The Tories have made the wrong calls all the way through the recession, as is fully documented - I think they are calling it wrong again.
Yes, cut benefits .... but get ready for a crimewave, the lazy gits will still want their SKY+, ciggies, export and betting slips - they will steal for it if they get no benefits.
The problem is, no-one knows when the right time to cut is - whatever they do (or any other flavour of government in there situation) they won't get it right as no-one will like it. However, whilst there is a level of national deficit that will be naturally covered by an ultimate recovery, there is a level that is structural and shouldn't be there - i.e. we've spent beyond our means and must now pay. The longer we leave it to pay it, the bigger the debt underlying it (and the deficit) gets - so any benefit of a recovery would be cancelled out. Hence no-one's "right" - it's all just informed opinion - the politicians progagate the message that suits their stance at the time.
What bugs me is that the media (and politicians) focus on the deficit (i.e. the annual P&L loss), when it's the debt that's the issue. Officially the national debt is currently £780bn (vs GDP of circa £900bn). In reality, this exludes a huge amount of unrecorded liabilities (off balance sheet items like PFI projects, long term pension liabilities and the like). Add those in and the country owes something like £3 trillion (£3,000 bn). Expect the new independent data office or whatever it's called to shed some light on that next year - they have a team of external accountants creating a genuine balance sheet for the country at present.
Bottom line is there's a lot of pain to come - whilst Labour are clearly to blame for building up so much liability, spending beyond the country's means, the Tories (and Lib Dems) weren't pointing that out at the time, so they're partly culpable as well.
Gordo
21 June 2010, 09:21 PM
#36
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please spare a thought for the few hard working self employed people out there like myself,im a steel erector and work for me in the last year and a half has been a nightmare!one week your working the next your not! when i have got work i will do seven days a week for basically peanuts and get told the same old thing "weve just got to be greatful weve got work mate"so the small amount of benifits me and my family recieve have sometimes been the only thing keeping us going!im fearing the worst but dont see why i or others like me should suffer!?ive worked since leaving school always paid my way and always paid my taxes! its all bull**** all the mps and the rest of them are in there own little bubble!havent got a clue what its like to live on a normal wage!lets be fair dont think any of them will feel the pinch quite like most of us lot?and as for the lazy ****ers who have no intention of getting off there fat asses and doing anything except breed like rabbits to cream the system for everything they can,(like half my neighbours)community service!so much scum out there it makes me sick!what an absolute joke this country is sometimes
21 June 2010, 11:02 PM
#37
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the problem surely is the overspend by the last government on all of us ( now we are going to have to pay for it )
together with a joke of a 'social welfare / *incapacity* benefit system
together with too many bureaucrats , as is the scurge of a labour administration
together with a joke of a 'social welfare / *incapacity* benefit system
together with too many bureaucrats , as is the scurge of a labour administration
Last edited by dpb; 21 June 2010 at 11:05 PM.
21 June 2010, 11:26 PM
#38
Hi John
I guess you are on the same pension as me....... an 80th of salary for each year in the job for a max of 40 years, I don't think this will change.
They will raise pension contributions by 2-3 % as they did in 2008 ............the killer will be taxing our pension lump on retirement. At present it's tax free but the Trust biggies say it will be taxed so bang goes my method of paying my mortgage !!
Shaun
I guess you are on the same pension as me....... an 80th of salary for each year in the job for a max of 40 years, I don't think this will change.
They will raise pension contributions by 2-3 % as they did in 2008 ............the killer will be taxing our pension lump on retirement. At present it's tax free but the Trust biggies say it will be taxed so bang goes my method of paying my mortgage !!
Shaun
21 June 2010, 11:39 PM
#39
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Saw some crims clearing rubbish etc whilst driving home t'other day dressed in bright orange vests with "repaying debt to society" ish written on them ... awesome stuff, long may it continue.
TX.
TX.
21 June 2010, 11:59 PM
#40
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Don't get me wrong ... I'm not saying we must not cut - just not yet, let's get the recovery well under way first.
The Tories have made the wrong calls all the way through the recession, as is fully documented - I think they are calling it wrong again.
Yes, cut benefits .... but get ready for a crimewave, the lazy gits will still want their SKY+, ciggies, export and betting slips - they will steal for it if they get no benefits.
The Tories have made the wrong calls all the way through the recession, as is fully documented - I think they are calling it wrong again.
Yes, cut benefits .... but get ready for a crimewave, the lazy gits will still want their SKY+, ciggies, export and betting slips - they will steal for it if they get no benefits.
mb
22 June 2010, 01:04 AM
#41
However, I don't like the attitude of only the middle class being hit, nor do I like the comment by another poster about people in council houses. So much god damn snobbery and narrow mindedness imo.
I grew up in a council house with parents who worked bloody hard on low wages, not claiming a penny in benefits. They worked hard to provide the best they could for my brother and me, and personally they did a good job.
Unfortunately, my partner and I are in a similar position at the moment (without children), but we both work hard and pay our way, again not claiming a penny. We're not perfect and not without mistakes in life, but the point is not everyone living in a council house (albeit ours is now bought) is scum and should be grouped as such.
And the notion working class people aren't hit hard too really narks me. We live beside people with no intention to work and we are in part paying for that, and naturally we feel the same frustration. Just because the actual £s that go out are less than higher earners, the burden relatively speaking is the same for us as many middle class people (under the higher tax bracket).
Just because some people aren't in a position to have their 'own' home or work for a low wage, does not mean they are scum, doesn't mean they don't work hard, and when working don't carry a very similar burden to those better off.
22 June 2010, 01:19 AM
#42
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Cannot wait until later this afternoon 
Mrs worked in the mortgage industry until it all collapsed in 2007, she managed to cling on until December 2007, since then she has done a string of temporary jobs, although each promises to become permanent they never do. 100% effort leads to sorry but we have to make savings. Whilst she was looking for work the DHSS or whatever it is called seems to cater better for the long term scrounger, rather than those seriously looking to get back into work.
I work in the public sector and depending on cuts tomorrow I may have to start looking, although I am in a "forward facing role" I suspect if push came to shove, support staff such as me will be down the dole office. One thing I find amazing, no-one seems to have asked individuals how money could be saved in the public sector. I've seen and heard incredible stories of waste
Yes I want the country to be back on a sound economic footing, but why is it alway the hard working person who gets out of bed to keep his family and pay his taxes that has to pay, whilst people who are happy to cruise along on benefits never seem to carry any of the burden? And those towards the top of the earning scales can afford accountants to get them out of paying tax.
1979-1997 Conservative government, manufacturing, heavy industry, fishing & mining was smashed and we became a finance and serviced based economy.
1997-2010 Labour Government , finance & banking collapses, service industries alone cannot support our economy.
2010-???? Conservative Liberal alliance ????
Make criminals pay for their crimes, stop pussyfooting around. the cost of keeping them in prison, turn off the Sky TV, indeed turn of the lights after dark, save the power.
Make everyone in society contribute to the best of their ability, don't continually hit the easy targets.
end of rant
Cor! I feel better for letting that bit of steam off.
Mrs worked in the mortgage industry until it all collapsed in 2007, she managed to cling on until December 2007, since then she has done a string of temporary jobs, although each promises to become permanent they never do. 100% effort leads to sorry but we have to make savings. Whilst she was looking for work the DHSS or whatever it is called seems to cater better for the long term scrounger, rather than those seriously looking to get back into work.
I work in the public sector and depending on cuts tomorrow I may have to start looking, although I am in a "forward facing role" I suspect if push came to shove, support staff such as me will be down the dole office. One thing I find amazing, no-one seems to have asked individuals how money could be saved in the public sector. I've seen and heard incredible stories of waste
Yes I want the country to be back on a sound economic footing, but why is it alway the hard working person who gets out of bed to keep his family and pay his taxes that has to pay, whilst people who are happy to cruise along on benefits never seem to carry any of the burden? And those towards the top of the earning scales can afford accountants to get them out of paying tax.
1979-1997 Conservative government, manufacturing, heavy industry, fishing & mining was smashed and we became a finance and serviced based economy.
1997-2010 Labour Government , finance & banking collapses, service industries alone cannot support our economy.
2010-???? Conservative Liberal alliance ????
Make criminals pay for their crimes, stop pussyfooting around. the cost of keeping them in prison, turn off the Sky TV, indeed turn of the lights after dark, save the power.
Make everyone in society contribute to the best of their ability, don't continually hit the easy targets.
end of rant
Cor! I feel better for letting that bit of steam off.
22 June 2010, 01:26 AM
#43
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We can only hope as I think alot would be saved.
However, I don't like the attitude of only the middle class being hit, nor do I like the comment by another poster about people in council houses. So much god damn snobbery and narrow mindedness imo.
I grew up in a council house with parents who worked bloody hard on low wages, not claiming a penny in benefits. They worked hard to provide the best they could for my brother and me, and personally they did a good job.
Unfortunately, my partner and I are in a similar position at the moment (without children), but we both work hard and pay our way, again not claiming a penny. We're not perfect and not without mistakes in life, but the point is not everyone living in a council house (albeit ours is now bought) is scum and should be grouped as such.
And the notion working class people aren't hit hard too really narks me. We live beside people with no intention to work and we are in part paying for that, and naturally we feel the same frustration. Just because the actual £s that go out are less than higher earners, the burden relatively speaking is the same for us as many middle class people (under the higher tax bracket).
Just because some people aren't in a position to have their 'own' home or work for a low wage, does not mean they are scum, doesn't mean they don't work hard, and when working don't carry a very similar burden to those better off.
However, I don't like the attitude of only the middle class being hit, nor do I like the comment by another poster about people in council houses. So much god damn snobbery and narrow mindedness imo.
I grew up in a council house with parents who worked bloody hard on low wages, not claiming a penny in benefits. They worked hard to provide the best they could for my brother and me, and personally they did a good job.
Unfortunately, my partner and I are in a similar position at the moment (without children), but we both work hard and pay our way, again not claiming a penny. We're not perfect and not without mistakes in life, but the point is not everyone living in a council house (albeit ours is now bought) is scum and should be grouped as such.
And the notion working class people aren't hit hard too really narks me. We live beside people with no intention to work and we are in part paying for that, and naturally we feel the same frustration. Just because the actual £s that go out are less than higher earners, the burden relatively speaking is the same for us as many middle class people (under the higher tax bracket).
Just because some people aren't in a position to have their 'own' home or work for a low wage, does not mean they are scum, doesn't mean they don't work hard, and when working don't carry a very similar burden to those better off.
We need people working at all levels in society, not everyone can be a manager, director or company owner, we need people to do the other jobs, the lower paid jobs, but we don't need to think less of them because of the job they do or the wage they earn.
22 June 2010, 08:59 AM
#44
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As two members mentioned above .... I am in the same boat as them.
Pension which was non-contributory (I now pay 7.5%!) - my tax free lump sum will be taxed (I guess at 40%?) - I will not be able to collect it until maybe 5 years later!
The Mrs will probably lose her job due to the cuts (being in a caring job ... means nowt to Tories).
It stinks ... the baby boomers have taken the lot ... there isn't even a pot to pi55 in anymore.
And it's not Labours fault, whoever was at the helm it was going to happen - it's a worldwide correction to the greed we have all been guilty of for decades.
Now comes the payback .... I hope the benefits will be cut for those who breed like rabbits just to get more of my money .... I hope the rich get hit too (but they can pay for top tax evasion advice and won't pay) .... it will be the middle earners who feel the pain and pick up the bill, as is always the case.
Brace yourselves .... this will be very messy!
Pension which was non-contributory (I now pay 7.5%!) - my tax free lump sum will be taxed (I guess at 40%?) - I will not be able to collect it until maybe 5 years later!
The Mrs will probably lose her job due to the cuts (being in a caring job ... means nowt to Tories).
It stinks ... the baby boomers have taken the lot ... there isn't even a pot to pi55 in anymore.
And it's not Labours fault, whoever was at the helm it was going to happen - it's a worldwide correction to the greed we have all been guilty of for decades.
Now comes the payback .... I hope the benefits will be cut for those who breed like rabbits just to get more of my money .... I hope the rich get hit too (but they can pay for top tax evasion advice and won't pay) .... it will be the middle earners who feel the pain and pick up the bill, as is always the case.
Brace yourselves .... this will be very messy!
22 June 2010, 09:11 AM
#45
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Some of what you say is true Pete,but whose fault can it possibly be but those who were in a position to change it over the last 13 years? Having borrowed the country into its present state, and used the cash to artificially make the economy look good and also to throw the money at useless initiatives until we are on our beam ends, what can the Conservatives do but stop the wasteful spending and put moves into place to start the recovery that they always have to do when they take power again? We are all in to position of having to lose out while this goes on, and all thay can do is to make the cuts as fair as possible across the board.
Les
Les
22 June 2010, 12:12 PM
#46
I suspect I will get a kicking, being one of those evil "Middle Earners", thing is I work but my wife doesnt, she looks after our three kids rather than leaving them to their own devices.
The weird thing is, if we both earnt twenty five grand each we would be much better off, same household income but as it comes from one person you see less of it.
The weird thing is, if we both earnt twenty five grand each we would be much better off, same household income but as it comes from one person you see less of it.
22 June 2010, 01:12 PM
#48
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22 June 2010, 01:20 PM
#53
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**** and Booze gets away with any kind of rise, Cider will be reduced back down from the 10% rise in April ....
WHY ????
Its one of the causes of a massive NHS bill ???
WHY ????
Its one of the causes of a massive NHS bill ???
22 June 2010, 01:20 PM
#54
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**** and Booze gets away with any kind of rise, Cider will be reduced back down from the 10% rise in April ....
WHY ????
Its one of the causes of a massive NHS bill ???
WHY ????
Its one of the causes of a massive NHS bill ???
22 June 2010, 01:26 PM
#55
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Not surprised there - any higher and taper relief would have to be introduced. Personally I would have made it higher but re-introduce taper over say 5 years.
Bit miffed that we just started a business and will probably miss out on the £5000 NI allowance on employees.
Bit miffed that we just started a business and will probably miss out on the £5000 NI allowance on employees.
