P1-Brad

So just because you can't be bothered with the hassle of taking a child abroad you classify those parents that do make the effort as being as bad as those that "dump" their child at a nursery!?!?

... and it sounds like nurseries have come a long way since your time... you might be surprised by the way the staff interact with children much younger than 3 or 4 and teach them a variety of useful 'skills'.

David Lock

Hey calm down, I am just giving my own opinion and, as I said, it is up to the parents to decide. May be those parents who take babies overseas are relaxed about leaving their kid in a strange place with an unknown child minder while they go out for a few hours. I wouldn't be.

And it seems that more than a few women see pregnancy as an irritating but necessary interruption to their lives and palm their kids off to a child minder just as soon as they can.

I hope nurseries have changed which can only be a good thing

dl

Hysteria1983

There you go again. Children are not left in a strange place with someone they don't know. When you allow your child to attend daycare you dont simply dump them with someone you are they have never met!

You obviously have no idea how it works.

And yes pregnancy is a massive inconvenience! It wrecks your body and it's a tad painful.
Just because women are the only gender to carry a baby, shouldn't mean that she has to pit everything on hold.
I'm all for parenting together.
When a mother is faced with the sole duty of being responsible for ALL childcare, the world becomes a very different place. No job, no socialising with work collegues no Christmas party. It can become very isolating.

P1-Brad

No, but then it wasn't you who had to stay home and take care of the kids full-time was it! And by your own admission it did cause a fair few arguments!! ... Maybe your wife might've quite liked to "go out for a few hours"!?

... based on what you've said, think it's actually a ringing endorement for using childcare services!

I'm sure there are women that "palm" their kids off on a childminder as soon as they can, and then there are those (probably the vast majority) that have genuine reasons - as outlined by both Hysteria and myself ... not sure why you feel it necessary to generalise and label all people that use childcare services!?!?

hodgy0_2

we have travelled all over the world with our 5 children -- absolutely no problem

barriers in life are usually self errected

David Lock

So at what age do you think it is reasonable to hand your child over to child care? d

Leslie

I think what Lee says is pretty close to the ideal. My mother was forced to work when my father was away with the army and was not earning very much either. Like Lee she arranged it so that I spent my baby years with her, she could never have afforded nursery care even if she wanted to-which she would not have anyway.

I was sent off to a nursery school at the age of 3 1/2 years and that was a good age as others have said to start mixing with other children. My mum did not have to pay since that was part of normal education then.

Circumstances were different in those days and we had to do what was possible and it was often difficult. My parents made many sacrifices for me and my sister when she arrived later. We have both always been grateful to them and neither of us felt as though we had been deprived as babies.
Had we been sent off as infants we would have however. For the same reasoning I would never pack my children off to a boarding school since that will affect their life during their formative years.

If you decide to have children, I believe that you have taken on a big responsibility and you have to do the best by them.

As Lee says, if you can manage to cope, money is not everything.

Les

P1-Brad

DL - my son will be 1 year old ... and will slowly build up to 3-days a week in nursery. I've already spelled out my reasons why we are doing this (and they certainly aren't financial, as my partner will only earn marginally more than the nursery costs).
No "dumping" / " career hungry" motive here, as I suspect is the case with most families ... we're simply doing what we feel is best for both my partner AND my son ... a concept you seem unable to fully grasp...!?

P1-Brad

... oh, and call social services, as we are off to Portugal in September when he will be 7 months old!!!

Hysteria1983

There isn't really a right or wrong age is there surely?

But we all know that a child must attend school at some point legally (by the 5th birthday?) so if you never plan in leaving them until that age then there 'might' be problems.

I think if you have a confident well adjusted child then great, leave then until compulsory school age and send them off to school.

In that case that can have the same effect on a child attending day care at a younger age, could it not?

There isn't a right or wrong way, and in most instances what is right for one family or child, is simply not possible to obtain for another.

Hanley

At any time the parent decides the time is right, there is no hard and fast rule.

When you walk out of the maternity ward they don't hand you an instruction booklet or tell you where to download the PDF

As a parent you have to make your own choices, deciding when to 'place' your child into daycare / nursery is one of the choices.

Our children were both placed in nursery from 1 year onwards and, now 3 and 5, they're both very confident in social situations, excellent at making friends and IMO a lot of this is because they've spent 3 days a week in nursery from 1year old.

My wife works Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday so the boys were placed in nursery for the morning, 1pm their grandad would pick them up and look after them for the afternoon (to the boys delight), for us this was the perfect balance.

P1-Brad

I couoldn't agree more Hanley, but if you're trying to reason with David I fear you could be wasting your breath.

Nurse Gladys

Always an emotive issue - and can only be decidedby those directly involved.

I had several 'arguements' when I returned to full time work when my daughter was four months old. This was out of necessity!

My best friend was a registered child minder & everything was brilliant.

At two years old the childminder's own kids had gone to school & she decided she wanted a career change. At this point we found a brilliant nursery (and we saw a few that weren't).

She is now twelve years old & we can now look back & agree that she only ever benefitted from the arrangements. She has started senior school and is in the top 2% of students and is soaking it up!

Whether her start in life has helped her progress as well as she has we will never know, (she hasn't got her brains or love of school from me or her dad!!) but it certainly hasn't 'harmed' her - and she certainly was never 'dumped' anywhere.

She has also travelled widely with us, and has never had a problem with upset stomachs or by being a tie - in fact she makes our holiday! I couldn't imagine going away without her - I would rather forgo my holiday.

I would say it is very much a personal decision on whether you return to work or not (but in most cases needs must) but I for one would have gone mad sat at home every day!


On a slightly different note, there is help for families paying for childcare - I think about 75% of it - if you have a look here...

http://taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/HomeNew.aspx

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

3yrs+ albeit better if 5yrs+ IMHO.

TX.

SJ_Skyline

incorrect!

David Lock

Now that's just being silly.......

Aren't you allowed to express an opinion on SN any more? I have politely put my point of view.

I happen to think that the mother/child bond is crucial and is still developing when a child is 12 months old. I also feel that the right nursery at a slightly older age is beneficial.

And I don't like big dogs around babies so that should upset a few SNers

dl

Leslie

Can't say fairer than that!

Les

Clarebabes

I would have gone mad being at home for 4 years! Plus the fact I had no money, so would have deffo been a scrounger which is not in my nature. Sorry if that's selfish, but I was a single mum, lived in a town where all I knew was her dad's family and no job to go back to. I think for my sanity I needed a job.

Her nursery were great as I knew one of the helpers - nanny to ex's sister. They taught her loads and she is very clever and sociable now, so it certainly didn't damage me or her!

Hysteria1983

I happen to think that the father/child bond is important.

Taking him/her for their first pint/drink at 18 doesn't quite cut the mustard.

You are entitled to your opinion, but making people feel bad about what they do or do not do as a patent is a different matter.

Personally I think a lot of the blokes on here are stuck in the 1920's with their views on many things.
This subject has higlighted some interesting things about you guys.

weapon69

Interesting reading!

I have to say i put my eldest into 2 different nurseries from age 1 and it was a total nightmare. I turned down a good job and decided to go and work in a supermarket in the evenings so i could care for him during the day. Along came his brother and sister and im champing at the bit to get some adult interaction (that doesn't involve talking about our kids!!)

ahh the joys

SJ_Skyline

Sounds like you'e already made up your mind about going back to work when you can. I would start thinking about what you want to do and any sorts of skills you could be brushing up on to stand you in good stead to land that role.

It's also good to remember that every moment is precious, from slinging them around the living room by their ankles, screaming with glee to cleaning up the tears and failed attempts at toilet training (even if it doesn't seem like fun at the time).

David Lock

You seem to think of me as a dad who came home from work expecting my supper on the table and the kids in jim-jams waiting for their bed time story

Not quite. I gave up my job in London and worked at home. As they grew up the kids wandered into my office, interrupting me and generally being a nuisance. But it meant my wife could go out when she wanted.

Above all it meant that our kids grew up in a stable family life with parents there for them. Our kids are the most important thing that has ever happened to either of us and I think it turned out OK. Sadly my son couldn't wait till be was 18 to have his first pint

I appreciate that every one's circumstances are different.

One thing I did learn was that parenting costs didn't stop when they were all grown up and supposedly at an age when they can fend for themselves!

And may be there is something to be said for the 1920s when one looks at the breakdown of society now........

dl

Hysteria1983

I knew that me saying that would get my point across.

As funny as it sounds my family life at the moment is how you described yours once was.

Mr P works from home, and his office is to the right of the stairs, and unfortunatly for him, it's also opposite my sons room! The minute he starts his paperwork they home in on him upstairs!

This time of year I tend to keep them in the garden so he can get organised.

Not sure I would have liked the 20's but my grandad was certainly a gentleman.

Jaydee5

Oh the joys? of being old and wearing those rose tinted specs!!!

When my kids were little it was unheard of that Mum went back to work...whether money was tight or not. It would have been a disgrace to "abandon" your child/children into the care of others for more than the very occasional couple of hours, once a week, at "playschool".
But I don't think that any child went without the interaction with other kids because, as a group of 8, 9, 10 other Mums, each child had a daily encounter with all the other kids. That may have been in each other's homes, or at the park....and even the walk to the park was a learning curve for Mums and kids alike. The social skills that every child learned was invaluable. When each of us had a second, or third child, the group expanded.....but it was never considered that our children were deprived of something "elite" that could only be attained from formal nursery/nanny care.

Yes, we were all poor...even those from the higher earning bracket....but, fiddle, it never entered our minds that our kids lacked anything! And there are many, many high achievers from that group of kids

Of course, the proof of the pudding....

What do/will are kids think of us for the upbringing we gave them?

Nurse Gladys

Well I have just asked my twelve year old what she thought about it....

Me 'do you think me going back to work when you were small was a good thing?'

Her 'What do you mean?'

Me 'Well would you have preferred to have had me at home 24/7?'

Her 'Definately not!'

I rest my case.....

Trout

iTrader: (1)

So, reading the lines and between the lines David, you seem to imply that parents who leave their kids in childcare are somehow irresponsible, and that taking an 18 month on an overseas holiday is somehow in the same category of irresponsibility.

Just checking.

I guess we have very different views. We were incredibly irresponsible - our sons very first trip was all the way to Australia when he was 5 months. He has been twice more, to the USA twice, the Caribbean once, Mallorca three times...

...and he is four. Call social services

PS He loves travel and his experiences have truly broadened his mind, and he has never had a dodgy stomach on travelling or been left in any strange places. Incredible isn't it - parents manage not to expose child to danger on a foreign holiday - it reads like a Daily Mail headline!

PPS Edited to add that more than half the trips were actually for work but allowed me to travel with the family

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Can some PLEASE fix this double post issue?!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Hey Jaydee - when I was a kid (and I am very old) my mother had to go to work as a teacher because we were poor. I don't really remember my childcare experience to be honest.

Oh, and if you asked my oldest he would tell you he loves his arrangements. On the four days he does not go to nursery he often asks if he can go so he can see his friends!


I do agree about the more traditional extended family and friends group did provide the socialisation they now get elsewhere; but typically those social groupings do no exist now.

Jaydee5

Hello Trout

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you ask your oldest child what he thinks about the arrangements he/you have. Don't we all want nothing more than the happiness of our child/children? And however we find it....when we get it right, it's the only way we ever want it to be.

No one ever wants to turn the clock back because those rose tinted specs don't hide the flaws. Each generation ups the anti and improves (hopefully) on whatever went before. Much as I don't dis-credit the life my kids had.....the opportunities for any child nowadays far outstrips anything on offer all those years ago.

But how come we still created some very sociable people with such intellectual minds and creative abilities?

Please show me some stats to prove if/what/when was the better time to raise kids?

Lee247

Trout, I like you very much, but why does your wife who does not work, put the kids in nursery
As said before, I worked around my kids. If I had the choice of not working, which I did not, I would not have taken that route.
My kids are well adjusted adults, thankfully, but I would have loved to have been with them 24/7. Sadly, circumstances dictated otherwise.
I can't understand how someone who has the choice, puts the kids in nursery other than for work purposes.