GlesgaKiss

Just read that story and I remember that earlier this year. If you'd just shot someone wouldn't you make more effort to hide the gun than putting it behind a public library? Lol

Trout

iTrader: (1)

A colleague of mine got visited by the Police about a year ago in relation to an investment scheme he had participated in. He did tell all about his involvement and thought that was that.

He went on holiday earlier this year and when he got back he had a similar message to contact the Police.

Once he indicated he was back from his holiday he was visited by the full force of the law, warranty, house searched including knicker drawer.

He was then arrested, his computers and mobile taken away. The works.

He is currently released on bail, pending a court appearance in October for a conspiracy to defraud in a multi-million pound mortgage fraud.

In his mind it is the first he has known of it!

LG John

In fairness, this makes things far easier for you English.

However, in Scotland you are not entitled to any representation at or before interview. The police can detain you, refuse you access to anyone and ask you whatever they wish under a police interview. You wont even realise how badly you have screwed yourself until your words are being twisted in court and used as evidence to convict you.

Leslie

If I was contacted by the coppers and I was absolutely innocent of any kind of offence, I would certainly answer their questions since any answer I might give would be more likely to clear me rather than implicate me in a crime.

If you are guilty then Saxo's advice might well be a safer route to follow in the circumstances.

Refusing to answer questions must surely indicate to the coppers that something is not right somewhere.

Les

MICAWRX

I have been tripped up in a police interview before, and the police used it to gain a conviction in court.

I was forced over a double white line by a driver not allowing me to filter in to a line of traffic leaving a roundabout, he shot up the inside of me and i had nowhere to go.
He then would not let me back into the correct lane on an unrestricted road, leaving me and my passenger in danger.
Turns out he was a consultant Psychiatrist with his 2 kids in the back on the way to golf practice, and I was just a generic young lad.
He reported me but apparently in the eyes of your local bobby in the interview room these highly educated people can not have red mist moments.

The coppers eyes lit up when I admitted that I had crossed a double white line, he asked me to confirm the fact that I had done it.

The court case was 400 miles away (couldnt attend) and I got 4 points for crossing a double white line.

Be very wary of coppers, I know the majority are good... but some are muppets just out for medals...

Hence I will never ever sit down with a bobby taking a statement without a solicitor.

LG John

Les, I held that view for long enough....but I have witnessed the "law" in action and have radically altered my opinion. Even if you are innocent, you risk putting yourself in very difficult situations by answering police questions. If the police are interested enough to talk to you then you should immediately protect yourself and say nothing. Also, it does not matter what the coppers "think". It is all about what the courts think.

At this very second I am sitting at my computer writing on Scoobynet. The time is 14:03. There is absolutely ZERO chance I am breaking any law of any kind right now. If I was taken by the police and asked the following questions:

1. Were you in your house today?
2. Did you leave your house today?
3. Do you use the internet?
4. Do you post on Scoobynet?
5. What were you doing at around 1400h today?
6. What is your favourite colour?
7. Do you know a poster on Scoobynet called Leslie?
8. Do you own a computer?
9. What is your DOB?
10. Do you breath air?

my responses would be:

1. No comment
2. No comment
3. No comment
4. No comment
5. No comment
6. No comment
7. No comment
8. No comment
9. 23/9/78
10. No comment

Just to give you some idea how it works.... suppose Leslie reported to the police that at 1400h I posted an indecent picture on scoobynet.

Suppose I confirmed under interview that I have a computer, post on scoobynet, know of Leslie, was posting at around 1400h, and that I never left the house all day and spend most of the day next to my computer.

By answering seemingly innocent questions I have no made it far easier for the police to substantiate any claim by Leslie. Had I said nothing they would need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that:

a) I have a computer
b) I post on scoobynet
c) I posted on scoobynet today
d) I (and only I) was at MY computer in MY home posting on Scoobynet as Saxo Boy at 1400
e) that said post was illegal

...and so on. Remain quiet and they have to build an entire case from the ground up and there is no scope for them to twist your words or have you implicate yourself.

Leslie

Oh dear, you have got me terrified now SB! It is very interesting to see your thinking and yes I agree you could drop yourself in the cacky just with one unguarded reply. I suppose I was assuming that the coppers were checking on possibilities rather than trying to prove a positive at all costs! Bit like MICAWRX above which is a sorry tale and he was very unfairly treated.

Maybe I should bear all that in mind should I ever be put on the grill. It seemed so simple when we used to have to undergo interrogation training, but we knew well enough they were trying to get you then anyway!

Les

LG John

No doubt there are times where Police are simply asking a few questions to clear up matters and remove you from their investigations. The problem is that they dont tell you (and if they did they might be lying) what they are actually trying to achieve through their questions.

In addition, the police question people on a regular basis and are trained at what they do. You are likely to be nervous and unsure of yourself and they are trained to ask the "right" questions. Why would you want to put yourself in a situation where you are not at your best, often totally in the dark as to what is going on and what has been said, and against someone that is trained to extract what he needs from you. It is a bad proposition and, thankfully, a fight you can effectively walk away from.

If (and that is a big if) a case does come to court you will be cross examined last. At that point you will have heard the testimony and cross examination of every witness in the case, will know the exact charges and all of the evidence. You know 100% what you are dealing with, will have been briefed by your solicitor and will have understood and discussed your case at length with numerous parties. You even have many months to prepare yourself for the questioning and cross examination.

LG John

Here is another example of how answering questions might cause you trouble:

You drive an M5, your mate drives an EV0 FQ360. You are travelling together to an event but are observing the conditions and the speed limit. You witness your mate swerve to avoid fox and bin it into a field. You pull over and call police/ambulance as your mate has a broken arm.

The police arrive and take you for questioning. Suppose questioning goes something like this:

1. Do you know the driver of the EVO?
A. Yes, he is a buddy of mine

2. Do you like fast cars?
A. Yeah, I am a bit of a petrol head, we were heading to Santa Pod when the accident happened actually.

3. What about your mate...is he a petrol head, does he like fast cars too?
A. Yeah, we both post on forums, do track days and usually have nice cars

4. Do you drive enthusiastically on the public roads?
A. Sometimes, but I am always very careful and respect the speed limit and conditions

5. Who has the faster car, you or your mate.
A. Me, the FQ cannot live with an M5.

6. How do you know that?
A. Er, um, er, from magazine stats

7. So you have never actually raced your mates car?
A. No, we were going to Santa Pod to find out

8. But you said you already know your car is faster, why waste the fuel/money?
A. I dont know, we thought it would be fun.

9. Were you excited to be going to Santa Pod to race?
A. Yeah, I was looking forward to it.

10. Where you racing on the public road?
A. No, we would never do that.

Now these are honest and innocent answers that most people on this board might give. However, by talking think what we have confirmed for the police.

1. We had a pre existing relationship with the other driver
2. We both like fast cars and using them
3. We are interesting in racing events and comparing performance
4. We were excited at the time of the crash
5. We were both present, in our respective performance cars, at the time of the crash.

Suddenly it has become far easier to suggest or prove that the crash was caused by racing on a public road.

GlesgaKiss

Is that what happened to you to make you so wary of the police?

LG John

No, unbelievably, I have never even had points!!

But I have seen stuff and a family rocked to the core by the Police

Put it this way, my wife and I havent even started trying for a family. However, I have told her that my son/daughter can be pretty much anything they want to be - they can come home and tell me they are gay, transexual or want a career in gay p0rn and I will try to understand. The minute they say they are joining the force is the moment they cease to be a relation of mine.

GlesgaKiss

Whatever happened must have been pretty bad then!

LG John

Depends on your definition of bad.

To your typical ****** things arent bad until you get 10yr+

To your typical innocent family man, bad is any form of criminal conviction.

Westwood2006

iTrader: (1)

It does take a special kind of person to want to be a police man. When we were kids one of my best mates suddenly decided to become a special.

We thought it was funny at first because he would have his beat on a Friday & Saturday night when the rest of us were on the ****. We could really push things taking the p1ss with the other cops because we were known.

Then one day my mate shopped his brother in because he didn't have tax on his old Mk2 escort!

That's when things went down hill for him. Weird. Why would you do that to your own brother??

He lives in another city now. Its like we were never friends. When I see him around I always clock him looking at my tax disk and tyres

GlesgaKiss

@ Saxo Boy: Of course. I'm not a big fan of the police/state getting involved in other people's business (stuff that isn't anything to do with them) under the term 'justice'. Civil liberties are going out the window - or at least they have been for some time now, and the role of the police is going down the wrong path in my opinion.

LG John

I have seen so many people turned in a similar manner westwood.

Unfortunately the problem is that the Police have to deal with bonafid scum 99.9% of the time and, after a while, learn to tar everyone with the same brush. Until robots do the policing for us, I dont see how it will change.

LG John

double post thingy

Westwood2006

iTrader: (1)

Allegedly. I also know that they will often look after their own drinking & driving. Allegedly.

One rule for us and another for them. Allegedly.

tony de wonderful

No the Police spend lots of time targetting petty motoring crime which is just averge people being hassled.

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

Strange, I know of at least 3 officers who have been prosecuted in my district for OPL while I've been serving.

verdasco1

you'll be fine just don't admit to anything, treat them like women and kids...let them know on a need to know basis!

mark_c

Saxo Boy, your information is a bit out of date. In Scotland you now do have access to a solicitor upon being detained prior to interview and if you wish to have a solicitor present whilst you are being interviewed although they are not to interfere at this point.

LG John

That change must have occurred in the last 6 months then.....

mark_c

Yes in the last few months the guidelines changed from the Lord Advocate whilst a case is being heard whether interviews without consultation with solicitors should be inadmissabl in court which I believer is to be concluded in October. It is unbelievable the number of people who do not make use of this right still though thinking it will make the process quicker. I suspect if the case is successful in finding everyone should have consultations with solicitors on a permanent basis then detention times will be increased from 6 hours to allow solicitor access to be guarenteed. Just have to wait and see!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I must admit - I always thought that you had access to a solicitor in Scotland.

mark_c

No until recently you had the right to have a solicitor and one other reasonably named person to be informed what station you were being held at and whether you were arrested or detained. The first time you would have access to speak with a solicitor would be when you are either released or if you are to be kept in custody then it is at the court before your case is heard.

Westwood2006

iTrader: (1)

That may be, but are you saying that plod looking after their own doesn't happen anywhere in the UK then... if they even get as far as being found OPL in the first place

Mmmm I think it might.

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

It would be naive to say it doesn't, but from a personal point of view I've got no desire to work with dishonest colleagues, and I wouldn't risk my career to bail someone else out.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Going back 20 years I used to hang around with a few coppers (they liked nurses, I liked nurses - what can I say!). They were always driving when drunk, one even managed to park his car through a shop window one night driving home from a club. They thought they were untouchable, and given none of them ever got done, they were obviously right.

SteveScooby

iTrader: (2)

They key point is "going back 20 years"

In the Gene Hunt era I'm sure officers used to regulary drink drive, get drunk on duty and routinely beat confessions out of prisoners. It doesn;t work like that anymore.