Schumacher.......
02 August 2010, 09:06 AM
#32
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Mini-Schumi (Vettel) makes me laugh. He's only converted 1 of his 7 pole positions into a win. F1's not all about Saturday qualifying or Fastest Laps is it? He should be streets ahead in the Championship by now, but he and the team have made so many silly errors. I doubt if Championship-leading Webber will do his team-mate any favours now, unlike limp-wristed Massa.
02 August 2010, 09:16 AM
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Mini-Schumi (Vettel) makes me laugh. He's only converted 1 of his 7 pole positions into a win. F1's not all about Saturday qualifying or Fastest Laps is it? He should be streets ahead in the Championship by now, but he and the team have made so many silly errors. I doubt if Championship-leading Webber will do his team-mate any favours now, unlike limp-wristed Massa.
Although he's undoubtedly quick Vettel irritates me. Really cocky when he gets a good qualifying result, but like you say fails to convert to race positions.
Made me larf in the post race press conference yesterday to see him with a face like a smacked ****, and all because (in his own words) 'He fell asleep' at the restart.
I've no doubt he's a future world champion, but like Hamilton had to, he's going to have to learn some humility.
02 August 2010, 09:39 AM
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unlike limp-wristed Massa.........I think you will find he was told to move over, much to his disappointment, Sadly when Rubens was at Ferrari he got the same treatment as Massa and I personally think it is so wrong!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
Cheers
Colin
02 August 2010, 09:43 AM
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It's becoming increasingly obvious that Vettel can drive an F1 car very quickly...but cannot "race" one as quick.
Explains the pole positions time after time... then meltdown or just plain average once he's stuck behind someone else.
Rubins was all over Schumy for 2 laps before finding a way past him (and lucky Michael didn't kill him in that crazy blocking move..10 place grid penalty wasn't enough imho)
But Vettel followed ***-lonso for about 20 laps with not one move to overtake him... then he drops back with a lap or 2 to go and bags the quickest lap of the race just to "make a point" ..dear oh dear...do we have 2 sniveling drivers in F1 now...shame, I was half routing for Vettel last season.. now he's down at the bottom with MS
Explains the pole positions time after time... then meltdown or just plain average once he's stuck behind someone else.
Rubins was all over Schumy for 2 laps before finding a way past him (and lucky Michael didn't kill him in that crazy blocking move..10 place grid penalty wasn't enough imho)
But Vettel followed ***-lonso for about 20 laps with not one move to overtake him... then he drops back with a lap or 2 to go and bags the quickest lap of the race just to "make a point" ..dear oh dear...do we have 2 sniveling drivers in F1 now...shame, I was half routing for Vettel last season.. now he's down at the bottom with MS
02 August 2010, 11:14 AM
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There is no room in my opinion for a driver who is prepared to deliberately risk another competitor's life in the way that he did. It was just lucky that the concrete wall was not any longer.
If the observers had any backbone they would have had him black flagged and later removed his competition licence.
If I was Barrichello I think I would have filled him in for that after the race.
I hope the authorities have got the bottle to ban him.
The other German showed his character too, did not even stop to congratulate his team mate when they parked up and acted like a spoilt child for the rest of the day. Trying to make a point with fastest lap means nothing, you have to do a bit of extra work as well to win the race. He broke the rules and got a fair penalty for doing so.
I was very pleased to see that immaculate drive by Webber, really deserved the win.
Les
If the observers had any backbone they would have had him black flagged and later removed his competition licence.
If I was Barrichello I think I would have filled him in for that after the race.
I hope the authorities have got the bottle to ban him.
The other German showed his character too, did not even stop to congratulate his team mate when they parked up and acted like a spoilt child for the rest of the day. Trying to make a point with fastest lap means nothing, you have to do a bit of extra work as well to win the race. He broke the rules and got a fair penalty for doing so.
I was very pleased to see that immaculate drive by Webber, really deserved the win.
Les
02 August 2010, 12:00 PM
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I couldn't agree more with all of that.
Schumacher's move was the worst I have seen. Imagine the fallout if someone had been injured or worse. Unfortunately Vettel is a good example of a young driver that has grown up watching the likes of Schumacher. His start line blocking tactics are a perfect example of the kind of thing that young drivers seem to think is normal and acceptable these days.
Schumacher's move was the worst I have seen. Imagine the fallout if someone had been injured or worse. Unfortunately Vettel is a good example of a young driver that has grown up watching the likes of Schumacher. His start line blocking tactics are a perfect example of the kind of thing that young drivers seem to think is normal and acceptable these days.
02 August 2010, 12:10 PM
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Schumacher's move was the worst I have seen. Imagine the fallout if someone had been injured or worse. Unfortunately Vettel is a good example of a young driver that has grown up watching the likes of Schumacher. His start line blocking tactics are a perfect example of the kind of thing that young drivers seem to think is normal and acceptable these days.
Back to Vettel, he should concentrate on his own race a bit more and stop trying to screw it up for everyone else. The fact that he doesn't gives everyone else the confidence to have a go at him from the start. I think they are actually quite happy that he is on pole, because they expect him to spend the first few vital seconds looking in his mirrors and veering defensively across the track à la Schumacher, which gives at least one or two of them a better chance to get past him and take the lead.
02 August 2010, 01:37 PM
#39
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I always was surprised when schuey decided to come back and I think we all knew in the back of our minds he was never going to be as goo as he used to be and yestaday just proved how desperate he has become, the brawn just isnt in the same league as it was last year.
I have to say there are 2 drivers I really cant stand and thats the spanish ***** Alonso and Vettel, I went straight off alonso when he did what he did to maclaren just because they wouldnt bow down to his "I want number 1 Status so tell lewis to start kissing my ****" because at the end of the day he grassed up the people who were paying him millions to do a job.
Vettel just isnt the man to be world champion he makes stupid mistakes that you wouldnt expect from someone who is going to win the championship you only gotta look at when he drove into webber and then the puncture last race and then the "i fell asleep on the restart" incident this guy just doesnt cut the mustard for me and is getting what he deserves, where as webber is the one id go with he knows what he has to do but always does it fairly.
I have to say there are 2 drivers I really cant stand and thats the spanish ***** Alonso and Vettel, I went straight off alonso when he did what he did to maclaren just because they wouldnt bow down to his "I want number 1 Status so tell lewis to start kissing my ****" because at the end of the day he grassed up the people who were paying him millions to do a job.
Vettel just isnt the man to be world champion he makes stupid mistakes that you wouldnt expect from someone who is going to win the championship you only gotta look at when he drove into webber and then the puncture last race and then the "i fell asleep on the restart" incident this guy just doesnt cut the mustard for me and is getting what he deserves, where as webber is the one id go with he knows what he has to do but always does it fairly.
02 August 2010, 01:39 PM
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02 August 2010, 01:44 PM
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If I was sat in a car that was 2 seconds a lap quicker than everything else on the grid, then I'd be taking a long look at my self if I hadn't lapped everyone by the end.... penalties or not... Redbull will not get that kind of advantage again this season that's for sure..
02 August 2010, 01:58 PM
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The missing link is 'passion', these self gratifying F1 drivers are talented but lack absolute passion and commitment and only serve to inflate their already over-inflated views of themselves.
Massa last week looked like a 12 year old throwing a sulk when he emerged from his Ferrari at the end of the race, when he was told "Alfonso's faster" he should have said "Really, why hasn't he passed me yet then?" - instead of pulling over 2 laps later and then crying about it...
Then we have this weeks 'penalty' whereby Vettel bitches about being caught napping (while conveniently slowing the entire race down). Webber seems OK but I'm waiting for a real driver to come through the ranks with a set of ***** still connected, none of these Jenson, Button, Vettel, Massa types.... they're not F1 drivers, they're just overpaid ponce's.
Massa last week looked like a 12 year old throwing a sulk when he emerged from his Ferrari at the end of the race, when he was told "Alfonso's faster" he should have said "Really, why hasn't he passed me yet then?" - instead of pulling over 2 laps later and then crying about it...
Then we have this weeks 'penalty' whereby Vettel bitches about being caught napping (while conveniently slowing the entire race down). Webber seems OK but I'm waiting for a real driver to come through the ranks with a set of ***** still connected, none of these Jenson, Button, Vettel, Massa types.... they're not F1 drivers, they're just overpaid ponce's.
02 August 2010, 02:43 PM
#43
The missing link is 'passion', these self gratifying F1 drivers are talented but lack absolute passion and commitment and only serve to inflate their already over-inflated views of themselves.
Massa last week looked like a 12 year old throwing a sulk when he emerged from his Ferrari at the end of the race, when he was told "Alfonso's faster" he should have said "Really, why hasn't he passed me yet then?" - instead of pulling over 2 laps later and then crying about it...
Then we have this weeks 'penalty' whereby Vettel bitches about being caught napping (while conveniently slowing the entire race down). Webber seems OK but I'm waiting for a real driver to come through the ranks with a set of ***** still connected, none of these Jenson, Button, Vettel, Massa types.... they're not F1 drivers, they're just overpaid ponce's.
Massa last week looked like a 12 year old throwing a sulk when he emerged from his Ferrari at the end of the race, when he was told "Alfonso's faster" he should have said "Really, why hasn't he passed me yet then?" - instead of pulling over 2 laps later and then crying about it...
Then we have this weeks 'penalty' whereby Vettel bitches about being caught napping (while conveniently slowing the entire race down). Webber seems OK but I'm waiting for a real driver to come through the ranks with a set of ***** still connected, none of these Jenson, Button, Vettel, Massa types.... they're not F1 drivers, they're just overpaid ponce's.
02 August 2010, 02:49 PM
#44
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02 August 2010, 02:57 PM
#45
Mate I tell you it's a bit rich footballers saying that they are motivated and passionate in interviews. Show us some evidence of it FFS! The people who ultimately pay their wages the general public know when there is passion and commitment on display. Win or lose you know when someone is flogging their guts trying and when they're not!
02 August 2010, 04:17 PM
#46
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Its much harder for a driver to show passion these days - the sports too corporate. Can't have the driver saying the wrong thing and upsetting sponsors or media. The cars don't lend themselves to ***** out driving, too much grip and too fragile.
It doesn't help either that most drivers have been born with several silver spoons in their mouths, but what do you expect when a year in a junior formula costs >£150k.
As for Schumacher, never liked him but he was a truly great driver. Coming back was a huge mistake.
I've a lot of time for Webber, hes come through the hard way and from what you hear is a genuinely decent bloke.
It doesn't help either that most drivers have been born with several silver spoons in their mouths, but what do you expect when a year in a junior formula costs >£150k.
As for Schumacher, never liked him but he was a truly great driver. Coming back was a huge mistake.
I've a lot of time for Webber, hes come through the hard way and from what you hear is a genuinely decent bloke.
02 August 2010, 04:25 PM
#47
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My immediate reaction to the Vettel incident was that the team had asked him to hold up Alonso. Christian Horner has denied this but Vettel's conversation with his Engineer after the finish was telling. The guy basically told him to shut up and not talk about it until he was out of the car (ie away from the microphone).
02 August 2010, 04:50 PM
#48
02 August 2010, 11:15 PM
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I'm all up for tough racing, but that move by MS was just a step too far - pushing someone into the wall at 180+ mph is just not acceptible.
Agree with the Vettel comments - he's quick, but just not very 'racey'. Doesn't make that many moves on people, and when he does they don't always get very well executed (ie move on Webber..)
One new driver I actually think looks like hes got potential is Petrov. He out-qualified Kubica for the first time at Hungery, and he always looks really racey and ready to have a scrap on the track all the time. I hope Renault keep stick with him as I think he could be a very exciting driver once he gets to grips with F1 and stops making rookie errors. He's often up there on the fastest lap times in races, so he seems to have the speed there, just needs the consistency.
Agree with the Vettel comments - he's quick, but just not very 'racey'. Doesn't make that many moves on people, and when he does they don't always get very well executed (ie move on Webber..)
One new driver I actually think looks like hes got potential is Petrov. He out-qualified Kubica for the first time at Hungery, and he always looks really racey and ready to have a scrap on the track all the time. I hope Renault keep stick with him as I think he could be a very exciting driver once he gets to grips with F1 and stops making rookie errors. He's often up there on the fastest lap times in races, so he seems to have the speed there, just needs the consistency.
Last edited by Petem95; 02 August 2010 at 11:17 PM.
03 August 2010, 12:27 AM
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OK I am a Schumacher fan and even I have got to say that what occured on Sunday was just a little too close for comfort. I would have hit him with a one race ban.
However the fact remains as tight as it was he did leave Barrichello enough room and in true Schumacher style gave Barrichello the option to go for it or back out. Like many geniuses he is flawed - his limits of acceptability are beyond most others and he really doesn't see what is wrong with moves like that.
The only thing that annoys me is the double standards applied to him by so many.
Go to You Tube and watch Prost/Senna in Portigal or Webber/Massa in Fuji 2008 and you will see two very similar moves yet no outcry to have either driver hung drawn and quartered the way we hear with Schumacher.
I am all for condemning anyone when they do something dangerous, but the vitriol that Schuamcher seems to engender is a little strange.
However the fact remains as tight as it was he did leave Barrichello enough room and in true Schumacher style gave Barrichello the option to go for it or back out. Like many geniuses he is flawed - his limits of acceptability are beyond most others and he really doesn't see what is wrong with moves like that.
The only thing that annoys me is the double standards applied to him by so many.
Go to You Tube and watch Prost/Senna in Portigal or Webber/Massa in Fuji 2008 and you will see two very similar moves yet no outcry to have either driver hung drawn and quartered the way we hear with Schumacher.
I am all for condemning anyone when they do something dangerous, but the vitriol that Schuamcher seems to engender is a little strange.
03 August 2010, 07:12 AM
#55
I don't think trying to mitigate this by comparing him with others makes any difference.
I suppose he could have used this coming out of retirement lark to rehabilitate his image (and he hasn't), so at least you can't accuse him of being a hypocrite.
03 August 2010, 08:32 AM
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OK I am a Schumacher fan and even I have got to say that what occured on Sunday was just a little too close for comfort. I would have hit him with a one race ban.
However the fact remains as tight as it was he did leave Barrichello enough room and in true Schumacher style gave Barrichello the option to go for it or back out. Like many geniuses he is flawed - his limits of acceptability are beyond most others and he really doesn't see what is wrong with moves like that.
The only thing that annoys me is the double standards applied to him by so many.
Go to You Tube and watch Prost/Senna in Portigal or Webber/Massa in Fuji 2008 and you will see two very similar moves yet no outcry to have either driver hung drawn and quartered the way we hear with Schumacher.
I am all for condemning anyone when they do something dangerous, but the vitriol that Schuamcher seems to engender is a little strange.
However the fact remains as tight as it was he did leave Barrichello enough room and in true Schumacher style gave Barrichello the option to go for it or back out. Like many geniuses he is flawed - his limits of acceptability are beyond most others and he really doesn't see what is wrong with moves like that.
The only thing that annoys me is the double standards applied to him by so many.
Go to You Tube and watch Prost/Senna in Portigal or Webber/Massa in Fuji 2008 and you will see two very similar moves yet no outcry to have either driver hung drawn and quartered the way we hear with Schumacher.
I am all for condemning anyone when they do something dangerous, but the vitriol that Schuamcher seems to engender is a little strange.
Les
03 August 2010, 08:58 AM
#57
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No one will forget what he did to Damon Hill all those years ago and he has done nothing but underline his willingness to cheat when it is to his advantage to do so ever since. He does not deserve to be a part of F1.
Well said that man, The guy is a menace, and if not stopped will someday sadly seriouly injure or kill someone!!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
Well said that man, The guy is a menace, and if not stopped will someday sadly seriouly injure or kill someone!!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
03 August 2010, 09:21 AM
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The seven-time world champion initially denied he was at fault. However, on reflection Schumacher admitted to making a mistake.
If it had gone wrong Rubens Barrichello could have been very seriously hurt, maybe even killed, and the same thing applies to a lot of people in the pit lane
Murray Walker
"Immediately after the race yesterday I was still in the heat of it all, but after I looked again at the situation with Rubens I have to say that the stewards were correct with their judgement," he added.
Just got this statement off the BBC F1 website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
If it had gone wrong Rubens Barrichello could have been very seriously hurt, maybe even killed, and the same thing applies to a lot of people in the pit lane
Murray Walker
"Immediately after the race yesterday I was still in the heat of it all, but after I looked again at the situation with Rubens I have to say that the stewards were correct with their judgement," he added.
Just got this statement off the BBC F1 website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Colin
03 August 2010, 10:29 AM
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Saying that was a mistake rather than a deliberate act with no thought for Barrichello's safety is exactly the same as all those politicians saying that their greedy and illegal expenses claims were also an "accidental mistake"!
Les
Les
03 August 2010, 10:37 AM
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Here is a quote from a journalist who was actually there to see it unfold:
I speak as one who was as standing, in person, at the exit of that infamous corner in Adelaide '94, with a head on view of the entire scene. I also speak as one who went home and watched his video tape of the incident a hundred times over before I was sure of my opinion. Last of all, I speak as one who is not in any particularly strong sense of the word, a Micheal fan.
So muh fokelore and fiction has grown around that corner that I can no longer restrain myself.
MS slid wide and hit the wall on the outside of the track at the exit of the previous left-hander. This broke his right steering arm and should have been the end of his race and his championship.
He rejoined the track and - after much reefing at the wheel, followed something similar to the racing line into the following right hander. Damon, clearly having sensed that something was badly awry with the Benetton, dived to the inside in the extreme. When I say extreme, if you can find the on-car footage from the Williams, you will see that Damon's front right tyre actually head-butts the leading edge of the kerb. Not even close to a racing line or a realistic passing line.
At that point, Damon's car jinks very slightly back to the left and hits the REAR of the Benetton side pod, Damon's front left hooks Michael's rear right, and launches the Benetton into the barrier at the exit, effectively taking both cars out of the race.
Last time I checked, the rule of racing thumb was that if the car coming from behind struck the leading car behind the halfway point of the car, blame was apportioned to the trailing car.
My personal, subjective observation was, and remains; Michael made a mistake that should have cost him the world title. Damon made an even bigger mistake that cost him the world title. If you want to call that cheating, fine, go right ahead.
So muh fokelore and fiction has grown around that corner that I can no longer restrain myself.
MS slid wide and hit the wall on the outside of the track at the exit of the previous left-hander. This broke his right steering arm and should have been the end of his race and his championship.
He rejoined the track and - after much reefing at the wheel, followed something similar to the racing line into the following right hander. Damon, clearly having sensed that something was badly awry with the Benetton, dived to the inside in the extreme. When I say extreme, if you can find the on-car footage from the Williams, you will see that Damon's front right tyre actually head-butts the leading edge of the kerb. Not even close to a racing line or a realistic passing line.
At that point, Damon's car jinks very slightly back to the left and hits the REAR of the Benetton side pod, Damon's front left hooks Michael's rear right, and launches the Benetton into the barrier at the exit, effectively taking both cars out of the race.
Last time I checked, the rule of racing thumb was that if the car coming from behind struck the leading car behind the halfway point of the car, blame was apportioned to the trailing car.
My personal, subjective observation was, and remains; Michael made a mistake that should have cost him the world title. Damon made an even bigger mistake that cost him the world title. If you want to call that cheating, fine, go right ahead.
