Schumacher.......
03 August 2010, 04:28 PM
#91
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Not half as difficult as it is with you who has obviously been watching a different driver and not too closely as we will see later
secondly you really think that driving an F1 car to second place with just one gear out of seven is no achievement or indictaor of the man's ability to drive round a problem ... you are deluded!!!
Clearly he had problems and I won't disagree that he drove a blinder, but I'm surprised at you being sucked into the hype of what many in the paddock at the time commented was not physically possible.
The 2005 Ferrari was no better at the end of the year than the start and went well only at Imola and Hungray. As for not comparing race results.... did the team orders you seem to know so much about tell Rubens to drive 4places and 50s behind his team mate race after race ??? No they didn't did they??? Face it, you would never admit he was a great driver no matter what evidence was presented!!
After 3 years out he does seem to be struggling although his pace has been roughly the same as Rosberg's for the last few races. Is it such a surprise that not being able to test hampers him after 3 years away from a sport where tiny difference matter a lot? Is the car really that much better than these 'inferior' cars? I don't know the answers, but you seem to of course.
I know what I have seen, if you choose not to see it then fair enough. I consider myself lucky to have seen Schumacher's career and that of Senna, Prost and Mansell.... they will be who I rememeber
whereas I doubt I shall bother recalling too much about Button, Damon or that perennial underachiever Coulthard in my dotage.
Last edited by Devildog; 03 August 2010 at 04:50 PM.
03 August 2010, 04:33 PM
#93
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Schumacher is one of F1's all time greats, his record speaks for itself - by far the best in his era. That era has gone though!
Still, he did ram Hill in 94 IMO, and that of many others of all nationality, drivers and journos alike
Still, he did ram Hill in 94 IMO, and that of many others of all nationality, drivers and journos alike
03 August 2010, 04:44 PM
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The data indicates that he was lapping around a second slower per after the problems started. I second a lap slower whilst stuck in 5th gear. Yeah, whatever
Clearly he had problems and I won't disagree that he drove a blinder, but I'm surprised at you being sucked into the hype of what many in the paddock at the time commented was not physically possible.
Clearly he had problems and I won't disagree that he drove a blinder, but I'm surprised at you being sucked into the hype of what many in the paddock at the time commented was not physically possible.
Let's agree to disagree. I doubt either of us will change our minds about him.
BTW serious question.... were you old enough to have watched Senna properly... isolated incident my ****. And that comes from a Senna fan
03 August 2010, 05:31 PM
#97
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Oh OK LOL! The 'it couldn't have happened like that' defence has arrived.
Let's agree to disagree. I doubt either of us will change our minds about him.
BTW serious question.... were you old enough to have watched Senna properly... isolated incident my ****. And that comes from a Senna fan
Let's agree to disagree. I doubt either of us will change our minds about him.
BTW serious question.... were you old enough to have watched Senna properly... isolated incident my ****. And that comes from a Senna fan
As for the rest,
04 August 2010, 09:08 AM
#99
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With respect Les, the 'behaviour' as you call it is standard fare not just in Formula one but a lot of sports. It is part and parcel of racing, some call it cheating some call it being ruthless. Your perception of racing as it should be is perhaps wishful thinking. There are countless examples over the years where other drivers have at times done something or drove in a certain way to get the job done. We might not like it and it may not be 'sporting' but it gets the job done. I'm not saying Michael has had an entirely blameless career, not by any stretch of the imagination. However he did what he had to win. His comeback was a big mistake, at his age he cannot possibly hope to compete with younger, fitter and hungrier drivers.
How do you feel about that, does the behaviour of some people in such respects justify that kind of action, does it not matter about the life of another competitor. Do you enjoy seeing the likes of Schumacher deliberately pushing Barrichello into a concrete wall?
You are likening and trying to justify actions which can only be compared to the spectacle of armed soldiers killing slaves for the delectation of the Romans!
If there are people taking part in sport who are prepared to take such actions as your hero then I say that they should be stopped before the complete collapse of the sport concerned into a killing field.
Les
04 August 2010, 10:50 AM
#101
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I'm not disputing his brilliance, especially with an unlimited budget like Ferrari had in those days. Hell, he could have won many more titles if he'd not broken his legs or come out on top in his more outrageous and desperate moments. Newey dominated the 90's when with Williams, but Rory Byrne's Benetton was a very good car allowing Shuey his first wins and titles, and the souring of his relationship with Williams along with the Senna incident saw a lacklustre spell at McLaren. Once free of a team he never fit into he quickly guided Red Bull to where they are now. Newey outshone Schuey early on, was eclipsed by being in a poor team position but as they both come back into the light, it is Newey who is once again on top. If I were building a team I'd have Newey, and a young charger like Kubica driving, although I'd probably want Hamilton too.
Last edited by corradoboy; 04 August 2010 at 10:57 AM.
04 August 2010, 11:25 AM
#102
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We are deep in the realms of the 'Professional Foul' here.
It's a pretty disgusting topic whatever the sport concerned is, but we all know it goes on at various levels whether we're talking about performance enhancing drugs or a footballer having his ankles rapped deliberately. This is just plain cheating involving the perpetrators in little actual risk. However the dangers presented in motor racing at high speeds make this kind of driving abominable in my opinion.
I hold my hand up as a fan of Schumacher's genius in his ability to win.
But it's about time he was called to account for his complete lack of respect for his fellow competitors and fans of F1. So far this season he has made two potentially dangerous moves, one on Massa and now Barrichello. What will happen next time?
I don't see how it's ok to say that modern F1 cars are so tough that the drivers are virtually immune to the consequences of accidents, so carry on at will and devil take the hindmost. There is no way to predict the outcome of a high speed crash. As has already been said, it may not just be the drivers that are affected by the outcome.
This is not sentimental drivel, and I would certainly not want to remove the genuine wheel to wheel racing that we all enjoy. F1 is a hard game played for very high stakes. But motor racing is not a blood sport, it's not even intended to be a contact sport, so there should be clear definitions of what constitutes a fair but firm style of competitive driving. If that move on Sunday had been made by a novice F1 driver he would have had the book thrown at him.
I believe the FIA should make an example of Schumacher for the benefit of the sport in general.
It's a pretty disgusting topic whatever the sport concerned is, but we all know it goes on at various levels whether we're talking about performance enhancing drugs or a footballer having his ankles rapped deliberately. This is just plain cheating involving the perpetrators in little actual risk. However the dangers presented in motor racing at high speeds make this kind of driving abominable in my opinion.
I hold my hand up as a fan of Schumacher's genius in his ability to win.
But it's about time he was called to account for his complete lack of respect for his fellow competitors and fans of F1. So far this season he has made two potentially dangerous moves, one on Massa and now Barrichello. What will happen next time?
I don't see how it's ok to say that modern F1 cars are so tough that the drivers are virtually immune to the consequences of accidents, so carry on at will and devil take the hindmost. There is no way to predict the outcome of a high speed crash. As has already been said, it may not just be the drivers that are affected by the outcome.
This is not sentimental drivel, and I would certainly not want to remove the genuine wheel to wheel racing that we all enjoy. F1 is a hard game played for very high stakes. But motor racing is not a blood sport, it's not even intended to be a contact sport, so there should be clear definitions of what constitutes a fair but firm style of competitive driving. If that move on Sunday had been made by a novice F1 driver he would have had the book thrown at him.
I believe the FIA should make an example of Schumacher for the benefit of the sport in general.
04 August 2010, 11:31 AM
#103
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I'm not disputing his brilliance, especially with an unlimited budget like Ferrari had in those days. Hell, he could have won many more titles if he'd not broken his legs or come out on top in his more outrageous and desperate moments. Newey dominated the 90's when with Williams, but Rory Byrne's Benetton was a very good car allowing Shuey his first wins and titles, and the souring of his relationship with Williams along with the Senna incident saw a lacklustre spell at McLaren. Once free of a team he never fit into he quickly guided Red Bull to where they are now. Newey outshone Schuey early on, was eclipsed by being in a poor team position but as they both come back into the light, it is Newey who is once again on top. If I were building a team I'd have Newey, and a young charger like Kubica driving, although I'd probably want Hamilton too.
I would put Newey up as the best designer in F1 in the last 20 years no question, Byrne was very good, but needed Schumacher, Brawn etc. around him. Newey has built championship winning cars for three teams (well he will ahve done by the end of this season) and that is very impressive, but the manner of the winning is what makes it even more so as invariably his cars have been supremely dominant.
I suppose we should just be thankful that Schumacher never drove a Newey designed car as we may have seen 17/17 in a season LOL!
As for today I would choose Hamilton out of the current crop of drivers if I had to pick one driver for my team. I think he is a cut above the rest and I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. He has everything, aggression, control, incisiveness.... and that little bit of magic Senna had. Will never forget his race at Fuji in 2007 .... he made Alonso look silly.
Last edited by f1_fan; 04 August 2010 at 11:33 AM.
04 August 2010, 04:17 PM
#104
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Nothing wrong with positioning your car to make it more difficult to overtake within the rules, ie no multi swerving etc., but would you support a manoeuvre which endangers the life of a competitor?
It is no excuse to say that we all know it goes on as some say on this thread is it? That can never justify it. Surely you would not get any pleasure out of seeing a death on the track!
Les