Pakistan Floods
14 August 2010, 08:10 PM
#151
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well thats what it is.
It’s not the 1st time and it will not be the last. Overpopulation leads to population/ urbanization of the flood plains which leads to Seasonal flood effecting the population . Are you trying to tell me you don’t think this region is overpopulated?
It’s not the 1st time and it will not be the last. Overpopulation leads to population/ urbanization of the flood plains which leads to Seasonal flood effecting the population . Are you trying to tell me you don’t think this region is overpopulated?
14 August 2010, 11:11 PM
#152
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Scary read:
"The recent rapid increase in human population over the past two centuries has raised concerns that humans are beginning to overpopulate the Earth, and that the planet may not be able to sustain present or larger numbers of inhabitants. The population has been growing continuously since the end of the Black Death, around the year 1400;[4] at the beginning of the nineteenth century, it had reached roughly 1,000,000,000 (1 billion). Increases in life expectancy and resource availability during the industrial and green revolutions led to rapid population growth on a worldwide level. By 1960, the world population had reached 3 billion; it doubled to 6 billion over the next four decades. As of 2009, the estimated annual growth rate was 1.10%, down from a peak of 2.2% in 1963, and the world population stood at roughly 6.7 billion. Current projections show a steady decline in the population growth rate, with the population expected to reach between 8 and 10.5 billion between the year 2040[5][6] and 2050.[7]"
TX.
"The recent rapid increase in human population over the past two centuries has raised concerns that humans are beginning to overpopulate the Earth, and that the planet may not be able to sustain present or larger numbers of inhabitants. The population has been growing continuously since the end of the Black Death, around the year 1400;[4] at the beginning of the nineteenth century, it had reached roughly 1,000,000,000 (1 billion). Increases in life expectancy and resource availability during the industrial and green revolutions led to rapid population growth on a worldwide level. By 1960, the world population had reached 3 billion; it doubled to 6 billion over the next four decades. As of 2009, the estimated annual growth rate was 1.10%, down from a peak of 2.2% in 1963, and the world population stood at roughly 6.7 billion. Current projections show a steady decline in the population growth rate, with the population expected to reach between 8 and 10.5 billion between the year 2040[5][6] and 2050.[7]"
TX.
14 August 2010, 11:19 PM
#153
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Totally illogical statement and pretty difficult to understand what you mean anyway.
Are you saying then that you have no compassion whatever for the ordinary and very poor people and children of that country who are being drowned and/or are losing their property,cattle and crops and who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. They spend their time under normal circumstances just fighting to scratch a living without any of the luxuries that you take for granted.
It is just down to helping other people out in disastrous times and their nationality is nothing to do with it!
Please explain what you mean by "humanism" in the sense that you used it.
Les
Are you saying then that you have no compassion whatever for the ordinary and very poor people and children of that country who are being drowned and/or are losing their property,cattle and crops and who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. They spend their time under normal circumstances just fighting to scratch a living without any of the luxuries that you take for granted.
It is just down to helping other people out in disastrous times and their nationality is nothing to do with it!
Please explain what you mean by "humanism" in the sense that you used it.
Les
I don't know how you manage to stop giving all your wealth away either.
14 August 2010, 11:19 PM
#154
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If natural distasters were natures way of making a more sustainable earth, then it would be culling us Whities in the West not some poor Pakististanis, afterall we consume infinitley more of earth precious resources than some peasant living on $2 a day.
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
15 August 2010, 12:04 AM
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If natural distasters were natures way of making a more sustainable earth, then it would be culling us Whities in the West not some poor Pakististanis, afterall we consume infinitley more of earth precious resources than some peasant living on $2 a day.
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
15 August 2010, 12:42 AM
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If natural distasters were natures way of making a more sustainable earth, then it would be culling us Whities in the West not some poor Pakististanis, afterall we consume infinitley more of earth precious resources than some peasant living on $2 a day.
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
Oh hang on that's logical..... silly me, ignore please
TX.
15 August 2010, 12:57 AM
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i dont think anything we do will help i remember all the years of donations to africa and what did it do for them the place is still in dire straits as will any other country with a bent government
15 August 2010, 02:00 AM
#159
its not all bent goverments the people are to blame just as much .
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
15 August 2010, 02:01 AM
#160
OK guys thanks for comments. I am not after a badge 
but I do find it depressing to read some of the comments on here. I don't think I take things too seriously either but the scale of this disaster is mind blowing.
Over population? Yeah I guess but it takes a braver man than me to ignore the plight of dieing kids wherever they are.
And you do mellow as you get older. 30 years ago I might have just put this down as some paki kids in trouble which had nothing to do with me. But not now. Perhaps having your own kids makes a difference. Perhaps it's just softening of the brain
And we are all f,ucking up this planet
d
but I do find it depressing to read some of the comments on here. I don't think I take things too seriously either but the scale of this disaster is mind blowing.Over population? Yeah I guess but it takes a braver man than me to ignore the plight of dieing kids wherever they are.
And you do mellow as you get older. 30 years ago I might have just put this down as some paki kids in trouble which had nothing to do with me. But not now. Perhaps having your own kids makes a difference. Perhaps it's just softening of the brain
And we are all f,ucking up this planet
d
Immy
15 August 2010, 08:49 AM
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DL: in response to the World Bank offering aid etc, you say that governments contribute to their monies anyway? So, in effect, we all contribute because any money from government MUST come from us, our taxes. QED.
Plus, of course, this FlibFlab coalition we have now has ring-fenced the Overseas Aid Budget (at about £9Bn if memory serves me right) so explain again why we should dig into our pockets even more?
Dave
15 August 2010, 10:01 AM
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its not all bent goverments the people are to blame just as much .
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
So, DL is still a "co#k, spouting sh#t" but he has a good heart .... ?
DL: in response to the World Bank offering aid etc, you say that governments contribute to their monies anyway? So, in effect, we all contribute because any money from government MUST come from us, our taxes. QED.
Plus, of course, this FlibFlab coalition we have now has ring-fenced the Overseas Aid Budget (at about £9Bn if memory serves me right) so explain again why we should dig into our pockets even more?
Dave
DL: in response to the World Bank offering aid etc, you say that governments contribute to their monies anyway? So, in effect, we all contribute because any money from government MUST come from us, our taxes. QED.
Plus, of course, this FlibFlab coalition we have now has ring-fenced the Overseas Aid Budget (at about £9Bn if memory serves me right) so explain again why we should dig into our pockets even more?
Dave
Well I try not to spout s,hit as you so kindly put it. But if that is your opinion so be it.
All I have really been trying to do was point out the plight of so many people on this planet. And I started off with a very specific and genuine question about harvesting rainwater. I intend to ask ITGD about this tomorrow as there is no harm in a phone all.
The World Bank tends to give/loan their/our money to development projects rather than direct aid. So I mentioned them in the context of DCI's suggestion about learning lessons from this disaster by way of a survey.
And, of course, you don't have to give a penny if you don't feel like it
But let's be selfish about this. If my couple of quid saved a kid's life I would feel better.
dl
15 August 2010, 10:23 AM
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Just to put this in perspective here's a map of the region showing the affected areas.... I sense that there isn't enough high ground available for 30% of the country.
15 August 2010, 10:28 AM
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Les
15 August 2010, 10:38 AM
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Would you refuse to save a drowning man on the grounds of overpopulation? That is the only meaning one can put on your post, as well as the others in similar vein.
Not much to write home about is it?
Les
15 August 2010, 11:07 AM
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I must admit on the old charity side I hate contributing to things which attempt to emotionally blackmail me. On a local level it's where they collect the, unopened, charity 'clothes bag' and knock on the door to ask 'I see you haven't given anything ...'. 'You're quite correct. Goodbye'. Probably unopened because all the stuff that *could* have gone into the bag went to the shop in the town centre we visited ....
This disaster isn't like that I agree but on this scale I see no reason to contribute financially when the country has billions to spend on nuclear arms, etc etc. and, as I said, when the tax payer (i.e. me, with NO choice) already contributes to international *aid* anyway. I can see plenty of argument that says that Pakistan, in this case, my be short of 'transmogrifying, limpet propelled guitar cases' which would have a major impact on rescues etc but all that means is that if we, the UK, have a surfeit of 'transmogrifying, limpet propelled guitar cases' then that is what we should contribute. As I do not have any 'transmogrifying, limpet propelled guitar cases' experience I'm not involved.
Dave
15 August 2010, 11:23 AM
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Are you saying then that when there is a disaster such as this one that we should all preach "natural selection" and use that as an excuse to avoid helping out those people who are in such a terrible position.
Would you refuse to save a drowning man on the grounds of overpopulation? That is the only meaning one can put on your post, as well as the others in similar vein.
Not much to write home about is it?
Les
Would you refuse to save a drowning man on the grounds of overpopulation? That is the only meaning one can put on your post, as well as the others in similar vein.
Not much to write home about is it?
Les
Yes. Or do you think its better for people to starve to death when they can not produce food due to over population. Desertification occurs when population increases over the land capacity to regenerate reducing food production and resulting in further starvation. Or die of disease from very poor overcrowded living conditions?.
All i am saying is deal with the issues don’t just give them money when you see a big TV worthy disaster as that seem a little two faced. You don’t see many welfare charities for Rats or Fox’s do you ? Why because their population is to large and deaths and diseases is life’s way to try and correct the balance.
15 August 2010, 11:37 AM
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Yes. Or do you think its better for people to starve to death when they can not produce food due to over population. Desertification occurs when population increases over the land capacity to regenerate reducing food production and resulting in further starvation. Or die of disease from very poor overcrowded living conditions?.
All i am saying is deal with the issues don’t just give them money when you see a big TV worthy disaster as that seem a little two faced. You don’t see many welfare charities for Rats or Fox’s do you ? Why because their population is to large and deaths and diseases is life’s way to try and correct the balance.
All i am saying is deal with the issues don’t just give them money when you see a big TV worthy disaster as that seem a little two faced. You don’t see many welfare charities for Rats or Fox’s do you ? Why because their population is to large and deaths and diseases is life’s way to try and correct the balance.
There is no such thing as "life's way" ..... an inanimate object e.g. planet earth does not create anything to control anything (such as population levels) that view is one of the strangest things I've ever heard. You're now saying that there is something able to say.."you know what, there's too many people in Pakistan... I know I'll change the weather pattern and cause a flood to keep the population down" - how absolutely weird is that belief
15 August 2010, 11:42 AM
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its not all bent goverments the people are to blame just as much .
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
they breed like rabits ( based on the thought the more kids you have the more likely one will survive to look after them in old age.
they continue to grow the same crops in the same fields year after year(any gardener with a ounce of brains knows about crop rotation.
they live in stupid places (ie on the river banks) and then wonder why thier house/shack gets washed away .
THEY DONT NEED AID OR MONEY THEY NEED TRAINING
By the looks of things they need training nearly as much as you need to go back to school
15 August 2010, 12:03 PM
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So if a natural disaster or illness affected you personally you'd rather happily sit back and accept the fact that your suffering is through over population and its your turn to die? - or as I tend to think you'd be screaming for help and pleading till your last breath for people to help you and your loved ones from becoming sick, or even dieing.
There is no such thing as "life's way" ..... an inanimate object e.g. planet earth does not create anything to control anything (such as population levels) that view is one of the strangest things I've ever heard. You're now saying that there is something able to say.."you know what, there's too many people in Pakistan... I know I'll change the weather pattern and cause a flood to keep the population down" - how absolutely weird is that belief
There is no such thing as "life's way" ..... an inanimate object e.g. planet earth does not create anything to control anything (such as population levels) that view is one of the strangest things I've ever heard. You're now saying that there is something able to say.."you know what, there's too many people in Pakistan... I know I'll change the weather pattern and cause a flood to keep the population down" - how absolutely weird is that belief
NO over population is the Cause. If you don’t live on the flood plain you don’t get floods. The flood plain is part of the seasonal Patten of the river.
If every year I suffered devastating floods then my priority in life would not be trying to introduce as many children as I could into such conditions.
15 August 2010, 12:53 PM
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15 August 2010, 01:08 PM
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So if a natural disaster or illness affected you personally you'd rather happily sit back and accept the fact that your suffering is through over population and its your turn to die? - or as I tend to think you'd be screaming for help and pleading till your last breath for people to help you and your loved ones from becoming sick, or even dieing.
TX.
15 August 2010, 01:16 PM
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15 August 2010, 08:05 PM
#174
So, DL is still a "co#k, spouting sh#t" but he has a good heart .... ?
DL: in response to the World Bank offering aid etc, you say that governments contribute to their monies anyway? So, in effect, we all contribute because any money from government MUST come from us, our taxes. QED.
Plus, of course, this FlibFlab coalition we have now has ring-fenced the Overseas Aid Budget (at about £9Bn if memory serves me right) so explain again why we should dig into our pockets even more?
Dave
DL: in response to the World Bank offering aid etc, you say that governments contribute to their monies anyway? So, in effect, we all contribute because any money from government MUST come from us, our taxes. QED.
Plus, of course, this FlibFlab coalition we have now has ring-fenced the Overseas Aid Budget (at about £9Bn if memory serves me right) so explain again why we should dig into our pockets even more?
Dave
Immy
15 August 2010, 11:57 PM
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It's like a 100 year storm which incidentally people like bridge designers account for. It's no good pleading an 'act of God' when these things are probability driven and known.
15 August 2010, 11:59 PM
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16 August 2010, 01:13 AM
#177
Sitting back and reading this it would seem some people are happy/willing to give, even a little to help people who may be suffering in circumstances beyond their control, and you can't assume because this was the topic that those same people don't give to other causes on a regular basis anyway.
Topics like this get alot of different opinions, but I think why it has got heated is because some people have acted like it's almost their fault, or 'why should we give to this because of their government....' I think what has upset some has been the lack of humanity shown rather than whether money is put in.
I'll be honest, I haven't directly paid anything towards this particular disaster, not because I do not care, or feel sadness towards the people involved, but because I don't have a never ending fund to keep giving more when something hits the news. I personally give to charities year in, year out and being on a tight budget, I can't keep on adding more to that everytime something tugs at my heartstrings (if I did that, I'd literally be bankrupt). However, there is a difference between choosing what to give to directly and having no compassion, which has been an issue on this thread.
I would be more than happy for a bit of my tax paid to go and help these people out, as government aside, these are normal people.
16 August 2010, 01:31 AM
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I don't think that is what Les is getting anyway.
Sitting back and reading this it would seem some people are happy/willing to give, even a little to help people who may be suffering in circumstances beyond their control, and you can't assume because this was the topic that those same people don't give to other causes on a regular basis anyway.
Topics like this get alot of different opinions, but I think why it has got heated is because some people have acted like it's almost their fault, or 'why should we give to this because of their government....' I think what has upset some has been the lack of humanity shown rather than whether money is put in.
I'll be honest, I haven't directly paid anything towards this particular disaster, not because I do not care, or feel sadness towards the people involved, but because I don't have a never ending fund to keep giving more when something hits the news. I personally give to charities year in, year out and being on a tight budget, I can't keep on adding more to that everytime something tugs at my heartstrings (if I did that, I'd literally be bankrupt). However, there is a difference between choosing what to give to directly and having no compassion, which has been an issue on this thread.
I would be more than happy for a bit of my tax paid to go and help these people out, as government aside, these are normal people.
Sitting back and reading this it would seem some people are happy/willing to give, even a little to help people who may be suffering in circumstances beyond their control, and you can't assume because this was the topic that those same people don't give to other causes on a regular basis anyway.
Topics like this get alot of different opinions, but I think why it has got heated is because some people have acted like it's almost their fault, or 'why should we give to this because of their government....' I think what has upset some has been the lack of humanity shown rather than whether money is put in.
I'll be honest, I haven't directly paid anything towards this particular disaster, not because I do not care, or feel sadness towards the people involved, but because I don't have a never ending fund to keep giving more when something hits the news. I personally give to charities year in, year out and being on a tight budget, I can't keep on adding more to that everytime something tugs at my heartstrings (if I did that, I'd literally be bankrupt). However, there is a difference between choosing what to give to directly and having no compassion, which has been an issue on this thread.
I would be more than happy for a bit of my tax paid to go and help these people out, as government aside, these are normal people.
There is a cost to everything.
Pakistan needs to learn a lesson about planning and dealing with building on flood planes and having a government which looks after it's people instead of nuke programs.
16 August 2010, 10:15 AM
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What if that charity promotes further suffering in the future.
There is a cost to everything.
Pakistan needs to learn a lesson about planning and dealing with building on flood planes and having a government which looks after it's people instead of nuke programs.
There is a cost to everything.
Pakistan needs to learn a lesson about planning and dealing with building on flood planes and having a government which looks after it's people instead of nuke programs.
