Martin2005

And what exactly does this have to do with some American citizens wanting to build a mosque?

No need for the btw it's supposed to be OK to discuss things

Petem95

There is no reason why he shouldn't. As I said in my earlier post, which you appeared to imply was 'racist' in your earlier ramblings, I stated that there is nothing wrong with the building of a mosque in itself, but you need to look at it in context. A LOT of Americans find its placement highly insensitive. It's wrong that as a leader of a decomcracy he is opposing the views of the majority by backing it.

There would be nothing wrong with building a **** museum, but if this was built next to a holocaust memorial then a lot of people would likely object.

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Well, again i don't know (my head is starting to hurt now )

But i'm guessing *some Americans citizens*, 70% in fact could give you some pretty concrete reasons

Btw, sorry for the .



























Up yours

Martin2005

There's 'a lot' of Americans currently objecting to the building of Mosques in Wyoming and California too, and that's a very long way from ground zero. Just further proof that this issue is about ignorance and intollerance.

Why are you making an equivocation between the ***** who WERE responsible for the holocaust, and the Islamic faith which was not responsible for the 9-11. That is pretty muddled thinking is it not?

BTW it is mainly religious fundamentalists (of the Christian kind) that are opposing the Islamic faith all over America. If you want to align yourself with this kind of intollerance then good for you, but I'll see it for what it is, if you don't mind?

Martin2005

There's quite a large percentage of Americans that believe the Earth is only 4000 years old and that Sarah Palin would make a great President, you agree with them too???

I'll say it again; Islam was not responsible for 9-11, only very very simple people can believe that. 20 idiot fanatics were to blame not a religion. Why is it so hard for some people to make this distinction??

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Stop talking bo11ox, Californians are American too and are bound to feel the same as New Yorkers, it's 70% of Americans (not just NY'ers) that rightly oppose the plans. I to would be intollerant.

Who mentioned the ***** and the holcaust?? Oh yeah, YOU did




Nite nite, Peace out

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

There are Mosques all over the US, another one won't make any difference, the hatred and lack of understanding is what caused the problems in the first place. All religion is bollocks but perhaps just let everyone practice their own personal bollocks in peace and having a Mosque in spitting distance of a previous and potential future short airliner journey destination may not be a bad idea.

tony de wonderful

Those 20 were just the tip of a wider movement of radicalism which is somewhat vigeous in the Islamic world today. Much can be blamed on the whabbi and their message of radicalism they have been carrying forth over the last couple of decades stirring up problems, plus you have a very young population who are alientated and looking for a message.

It's not either/or though. I wouldn't blame wider Islam in totality but otoh the 'moderates' seem unable to offer a coherant and strong argument against the fanatics...they are not standing up and being counted basicaly, and also the moderates are alarmingly sometime quite like the radicals! Lord Achmed whatshisname even said 7/7 was an MI5 false flag operation FFS!

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Should just build one giant mosque on the site of the twin towers. At least that way you can pretty much guarantee they wont attempt the same thing again.

Leslie

Islam does not advocate terrorism or violence any more than any of the other religions which teach their followers to lead a good life with consideration for others. The problems stem from radicals or others who would use the religion for their own selfish purposes. Sharia Law is not a part of the Muslim religion. It is man made and is effectively an eastern version of what we would see as a police state-in spades!

Obama is trying to uphold religious freedom without any particular favour in the USA. With the blinkered anti feelings over there I don't think it will do him any good,especially since his popularity has waned as they approach the mid term elections.

We are of course all entitled to our own particular beliefs in any religion inluding those in Atheism for that matter. It would be a bad day if we lost that freedom in this country.

Les

Martin2005

It would make a refreshing change if you would actually read the whole thread, if you did you might actually understand.

The point was that people are objecting to Mosques being built in California , which is quite a few blocks away from ground zero!!!!

I was replying to someone's elses **** comments...oh hang on you didn't read the thread though did you

DCI Gene Hunt

That's the most sensible statement on here - in fact all major monuments or places of interest should have a mosque built next to them for this reason alone.

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Morning Martin.

Yeah, my mistake and appologies

Yes, understood. Like i said, it's a national concensus, people in California feel the same as people in NY. There will be people in CA that lost friends and/or family in 9/11

There are people in the UK that also object to the plans, and thats quite a few *more* blocks away from GZ.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

A popular choice is not necessarily the correct choice - The Fallacy of Popularity - look it up. The fact Obama has backed this is a good sign that the people who are running the U.S. aren't blinded by the same media disinformation and Islamaphobia the rest of the nation seems to be.

It isn't even being built at Ground Zero, but several blocks away - how far away does it need to be before it's deemed an acceptable distance for these critics? Surely healing divisions and moving on is more important than keeping open old wounds, this mosque would go some way to achieving that.

Xx-IAN-xX

How many islamic states would allow you to build a church in their country.I would assume not many, all religion is bollox in my opinion and usually the cause of most trouble (you only need to look at the threads on here) i'd burn the fecking lot down.

The Zohan

Interesting point, anybody in the so called west is classed as intolerant or racist for not wanting mosques built in 'their' country and when the boot is on the other foot, no one says a word. Why exactly is this???


I guess if you asked 1000 new yorkers if they wanted it built near site of the old twin towers then a lot would not (hypothesising of course), would this make them racist and intolerant. No not really, this is down to sensitivities and respect for those who have had their lives scarred or taken away by 911.

You should show sensitivity and respect first and foremost, this will cause a lot of bad feelings in the US and little good will come of it. Obama really should remove his fat head from his anus and do the right thing.

This is not about extremists christian radicals this is about everyday normal people and should not be seen as anything else but a bad decision by a PM to busy to appease everybody instead of doing what is right.

I wonder what or how Martin 2005 will defend this or spin it? - it sounds to me like you are a DM reading, knuckle dragging racist idiot for daring to challenge anything....

I have little time for this new president since it took him and his government a while to get into gear with the BP oil well disaster and then went on the war path against BP, being that the drilling rig is American owned and operated and managed and they should have shut down or stopped if asked to break or bend the rules but no, in true American tradition they blame everybody else. Yes BP are in the wrong but not the only ones in this instance

Another example of an incompetent president being pulled from pillar to post and trying to please everybody instead of doing the right thing.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

The president's job is not just to serve the will of the majority, but to defend the minority too, as well as protecting the constitution (Freedom of Religion in this case, which has in the Bush years been completely trampled on).

tony de wonderful

Islam has never reconciled with reason i.e had an Engligtenement, consequently it is very easy to adopt a radical stance and sell that to the masses who have no criticism skills.

Like medievil Christianity in Europe.

GlesgaKiss

The people get what they deserve, as the saying goes...

tony de wonderful

A mosque or a giant Islamic centre featuring a swimming pool and all sorts?

It's a political ststement...the edifice complex etc. It says 'we are arriving'. No doubt it is funded by Saudi/Whabbi money as are most of the mega-mosques...it has their hubris and evangelicalism written all over it.

Leslie

I think I understand what you are trying to say. is the "Radical Stance" the fault of the religion or the radicals who are declaring it?

Les

Leslie

Don't know about Christian churches in Islamic states. You are probably right. Does not mean to say we have to go the same way though, tolerance is a better way!

You are entitled to your views of course, but I would argue about religion as such being the cause of the troubles. that is a standard all enveloping atheistic statement and is incorrect, just opportunistic.

Troubles are caused by people who are not even following the teachings of the religion in question. The basic religious teachings do not advocate terrorism or other forms of violence.

Les

Tidgy

i can understand the reasons behind not wanting to have it built there, but surly by allowing it you are saying that we will not discriminate against the masses becasue of the actions of a few?

not all muslims are terrorist in fact its the minority, by starting to say 'you can't build here' etc etc, you just become intollerant and start to build up prejudice which breeds extreamism. Then who becomes the civilised society?

Tidgy

most relgions are interpretations of a text, how you interpret that text is personal.

so to the extreamists they are following the teachings of their religion and none extremest are in violation.

CrisPDuk

Since the job description of the President is to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", and the first amendment of said constitution enshrines (amongst other things) an individual's right to religious freedom, it's not actually about what Obama should be doing.

I do find it ironic (and more than a little scary) that the United States does now seem to be under the control of the type of Christian fundamentalism the Pilgrim Fathers were seeking to escape from

Tidgy

i think its caused by extreamism, people are loosing there tollerance because of all the bombings etc

CrisPDuk

Or maybe invading anyone who dares to disagree with them is just the 'American Way'

Tidgy

unless theres another reason then no you shouldn't invade because of differing views.

but thats a whole different ball game of which joe public will never find the truth for another 90 years.

Leslie

It is true that many religions profess to explain the meaning of text which might be difficult to understand properly.

It seems to me that the extremists are not so interested in the actual religion as much as what they can gain personally by their actions and their use of the peoples' beliefs in respect to the religion to persuade them to follow their requests to the people.

Les