tony de wonderful

Demagouge.

tony de wonderful

It's not a question of blind belief. The broad theory that it was a Islamist terrorist attack is simplily the best explantion. Now how much did the intelligence services screw up or whatever is another question, but the 'truthers' have after almost 10 years failed to come up with a better hypothesis despite the hyperbole on the internet which quite frankly is generally childish and stupid in its analysis as well as paranoid.

Leslie

People are entitled to ask the questions when they see things that seem not to be right or just don't fit in with what was said to be happening. It is right that they do too. If you just bilndly accept everything that is said on such occasions then those in power will just do as they like! A "broad theory" about such a disaster is just not good enogh!

I notice that you can't supply any kind of explanation for the items that I mentioned.

Les

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

How on earth did a plane get close to the Pentagon FFS - would / should have been blown out of the sky by American Air Force. Look at the damage too, virtually nothing No pics of a crashed plane supplied anywhere on your links either other than small pieces of wreckage ... a 747 would have its **** hanging out of the building.

You mention eye witness accounts - any links?

Looks dodgy to me

TX.

hodgy0_2

all in the links provided

but will reproduce for the lazy and stupid

Lets look at some eye witness testimony sticking only to people who saw a plane hit the building, and not look at people who saw an airliner, but didn't see an airplane hit the building because they looked away or were too far away (behind a hill, behind a building, etc) to see it actually hit the building.


"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20

"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News

Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001

"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001

That's just a small smattering of people who have gone on record as seeing the plane, and the plane hit the Pentagon. I could have included the dozens of people who saw the plane, but didn't see it hit (because it went behind a bridge, a hill, or some trees), but I choose only to post the ones that sounded the most valid and actually saw the plane hit the building. (I included the one firechief who states he saw some plane wreckage during firefighting/rescue attempts.) There are most likely twenty times more that either haven't been publicly recorded as seeing the crash, or simply don't want the attention. You can't honeslty sit there and deny the witnesses, the photographs, the facts, the science, and the reality that there was a terrorist attack on the Pentagon if you look at everything available and not one single tidbit of information at a time.

The Zohan

Thanks

Read though the other post you kindly put up after my request and much appreciated.

IMHO - christian fundamentalists or creationists (pretty much the same thing i guess) are not in a majority in the US as far as i am aware, statistics can be manipulated (i would say that as an easy cop out) but tbh i do wonder if they asked the whole population of the USA the question and got an answer back from all, likely a crass section of the public and if asked in areas with a huge CF or creationist population then likely to get the answer they want.

hodgy0_2

well you may or may not be right Paul

after all, all conclusions drawn from polls are extrapolated from a small sample of people

and I have often wondered how accurate they are – but on the whole the evidence suggests they a pretty accurate

even if you accept a margin of error of 20% (which no pollster on earth would accept) it is a lot of Americans

in reality the post title should read

Obama defends the right to build a cultural centre in New York – now as far as I have read it the cultural centre has all the necessary permits and it entirely lawful

What the fvck to people want Obama to do – to do anything else would promote anarchy with people making up the law and constitution as they go along.

If that’s what the Americans want – that’s fine, vote someone in who will ban Islamic cultural centres and change the constitution to enable it – then no one can complain. I haven’t got a problem with that.

The Zohan

As i have said before - just because you can do something doesn't mean you should of that it makes it right.

You only have to look at the current American ambulance chasing society with all the rights and none of the responsibilities that go along with it.

As president Obama should set an example and lead the way, and as another president said "you cannot please all the people all of the time".

hodgy0_2

that maybe so -- but we are talking about the head of state defending a persons/organisations rights and the rights enshrined in a constitution

as i said if they dont like it change the law

The Zohan

Their ****ed up society is proof of the lack of will to change the law, not saying our system is perfect either.

tony de wonderful

I never said they were not entitled to ask questions.

Of course it's a broad theory, we will never know what one hijacker had for breakfast, nor many other things.

I don't need to 'prove' the hypothois, you need to refute it. Do so please if you can. But you have very little in truth to do so with or the truthers would have done so by now.

tony de wonderful

would you want a massive mosque next door to you?

hodgy0_2

it isn't a Mosque -- how hard to you find it to understand that

tony de wonderful

How is it not?

hodgy0_2

QED

The Dogs B******s

Xx-IAN-xX

.
He's no Winston mate

Leslie

I think I almost understand what you are trying to say.

I pointed out the anomalies but did not draw a concrete conclusion.

Les

tony de wonderful

No you just failed to refute the orthodox hypothesis. Besides your 'anomolies' are only that in your mind, most are lies and distorsions.

tony de wonderful

Leslie

Have you looked at the evidence for the quoted anomalies?

What do you mean by the "orthodox hypothosis" Is it the standard story about what happened a hypothosis anyway?

Les

tony de wonderful

Some yes.

Of course.

Leslie

Jolly good!

Les