400hp is it worth it?
19 August 2010 | 08:24 PM
#63
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
From: Edinburgh (ish)
Nail. Head. Hit! 
Corresponds exactly to my 6 years experience with a classic Impreza.
It's really not just a case of getting a car to a certain power level; it has to work as a package (suspension, brakes drivetrain etc) It's that bit that often costs the most money.
As an example, my 340bhp classic overwhelmed the std 4pots easily and felt too baggy on the std suspension.
2.1k for AP 6 pots and about 1k for Eibach Coilovers sorted it, but that's 3k before we even start talking about the costs entailed in upgrading the power reliably.
My advice these days is if you want a 400bhp car (and you don't want to fall out with your bank manager), make sure you start with an STi and even then expect to be bent over! If you're starting from a UK Turbo or WRX, expect to be bent over repeatedly, with no lube!!
You play, you pay (sooner or later) as the old saying goes.
Ns04
PS IMHO For a road car, 400bhp is plenty! Forget all boyish notions of having the fastest car around; never gonna happen- there will always be someone quicker; just a question of how much you spend before you realise it!
Corresponds exactly to my 6 years experience with a classic Impreza.
It's really not just a case of getting a car to a certain power level; it has to work as a package (suspension, brakes drivetrain etc) It's that bit that often costs the most money.
As an example, my 340bhp classic overwhelmed the std 4pots easily and felt too baggy on the std suspension.
2.1k for AP 6 pots and about 1k for Eibach Coilovers sorted it, but that's 3k before we even start talking about the costs entailed in upgrading the power reliably.
My advice these days is if you want a 400bhp car (and you don't want to fall out with your bank manager), make sure you start with an STi and even then expect to be bent over! If you're starting from a UK Turbo or WRX, expect to be bent over repeatedly, with no lube!!
You play, you pay (sooner or later) as the old saying goes.
Ns04
PS IMHO For a road car, 400bhp is plenty! Forget all boyish notions of having the fastest car around; never gonna happen- there will always be someone quicker; just a question of how much you spend before you realise it!
I was looking at getting about 360/390 from an 06 STi (which I haven't bought yet, lol).
Any thoughts as to whether that will be significantly quicker than my 01 WRX with 301/290, bearing in mind the 100kg weight difference, 6 spd & 5 spd boxes, etc?
Andy
19 August 2010 | 09:07 PM
#64
Scooby Regular
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,439
Likes: 53
just a little reminder of what the 'stock' sti is capable of, just 15 seconds in it at the end and a difference of £200K ish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBxKcJV7Wc
if the sti driver had a co-driver he would have been a little quicker
SCOOBY'S........dont you just luv em?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBxKcJV7Wc
if the sti driver had a co-driver he would have been a little quicker
SCOOBY'S........dont you just luv em?
19 August 2010 | 10:01 PM
#65
I have a Hawkeye 06 which was running 320bhp, now after an extensiverebuild with everything,
forged pistons the lot,
full hayward-scott decat
paddle clutch and
Andy Forrest remap 450 BHP
and the cost so far is in excess of £8.500 and its still no finnished,
but wow what a difference very
19 August 2010 | 10:34 PM
#66
19 August 2010 | 10:58 PM
#67
Hmmm, i like it when speedo's move like rev counters do on normal cars
20 August 2010 | 05:43 PM
#70
I have no wish to dispute anything with anyone but here are some observations.
400 bhp reliably can be achieved on many Subarus but not 2.5s without changing pistons.
STi M/Y 97> forward are better starting points.
STi "550" pink injectors are unlikely to support a genuine 400 bhp but 550cc side feeds in Classics will...just.
Even on an STi 8 TMIC there is a case for moving to an efficient FMIC around 400 bhp, not just for ACT reasons but also pressure drop across the core.
If asked how much one of my TD05 20Gs will do, the answer is 380-390 bhp with all mods done. Several customers come back and report 400+ bhp.
Also remember the TD05-0620G. Around 430-440 bhp like for like.
The air box and pannel filter becomes a constriction at varying power levels. 97-00 probably around 350 bhp. Earlier cars prior to that and later cars seem happy to 400 bhp or beyond.
If you want to go for 400 bhp or whatever, it is not the specific figure that is important and the modifications have to be looked at as a whole to get a joined up result in line with your expectations.
It is amazing how some guys are over the moon with their cars until they go on a rolling road somewhere. Similarly others report 450 bhp from a set of modifications that will not make that figure but it would be cruel to burst their baloon, particularly if you are not directly involved.
400 bhp reliably can be achieved on many Subarus but not 2.5s without changing pistons.
STi M/Y 97> forward are better starting points.
STi "550" pink injectors are unlikely to support a genuine 400 bhp but 550cc side feeds in Classics will...just.
Even on an STi 8 TMIC there is a case for moving to an efficient FMIC around 400 bhp, not just for ACT reasons but also pressure drop across the core.
If asked how much one of my TD05 20Gs will do, the answer is 380-390 bhp with all mods done. Several customers come back and report 400+ bhp.
Also remember the TD05-0620G. Around 430-440 bhp like for like.
The air box and pannel filter becomes a constriction at varying power levels. 97-00 probably around 350 bhp. Earlier cars prior to that and later cars seem happy to 400 bhp or beyond.
If you want to go for 400 bhp or whatever, it is not the specific figure that is important and the modifications have to be looked at as a whole to get a joined up result in line with your expectations.
It is amazing how some guys are over the moon with their cars until they go on a rolling road somewhere. Similarly others report 450 bhp from a set of modifications that will not make that figure but it would be cruel to burst their baloon, particularly if you are not directly involved.
20 August 2010 | 05:53 PM
#71
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
From: The Potteries
21 August 2010 | 12:25 AM
#72
I have no wish to dispute anything with anyone but here are some observations.
400 bhp reliably can be achieved on many Subarus but not 2.5s without changing pistons.
STi M/Y 97> forward are better starting points.
STi "550" pink injectors are unlikely to support a genuine 400 bhp but 550cc side feeds in Classics will...just.
Even on an STi 8 TMIC there is a case for moving to an efficient FMIC around 400 bhp, not just for ACT reasons but also pressure drop across the core.
If asked how much one of my TD05 20Gs will do, the answer is 380-390 bhp with all mods done. Several customers come back and report 400+ bhp.
Also remember the TD05-0620G. Around 430-440 bhp like for like.
The air box and pannel filter becomes a constriction at varying power levels. 97-00 probably around 350 bhp. Earlier cars prior to that and later cars seem happy to 400 bhp or beyond.
If you want to go for 400 bhp or whatever, it is not the specific figure that is important and the modifications have to be looked at as a whole to get a joined up result in line with your expectations.
It is amazing how some guys are over the moon with their cars until they go on a rolling road somewhere. Similarly others report 450 bhp from a set of modifications that will not make that figure but it would be cruel to burst their baloon, particularly if you are not directly involved.
400 bhp reliably can be achieved on many Subarus but not 2.5s without changing pistons.
STi M/Y 97> forward are better starting points.
STi "550" pink injectors are unlikely to support a genuine 400 bhp but 550cc side feeds in Classics will...just.
Even on an STi 8 TMIC there is a case for moving to an efficient FMIC around 400 bhp, not just for ACT reasons but also pressure drop across the core.
If asked how much one of my TD05 20Gs will do, the answer is 380-390 bhp with all mods done. Several customers come back and report 400+ bhp.
Also remember the TD05-0620G. Around 430-440 bhp like for like.
The air box and pannel filter becomes a constriction at varying power levels. 97-00 probably around 350 bhp. Earlier cars prior to that and later cars seem happy to 400 bhp or beyond.
If you want to go for 400 bhp or whatever, it is not the specific figure that is important and the modifications have to be looked at as a whole to get a joined up result in line with your expectations.
It is amazing how some guys are over the moon with their cars until they go on a rolling road somewhere. Similarly others report 450 bhp from a set of modifications that will not make that figure but it would be cruel to burst their baloon, particularly if you are not directly involved.
03 October 2010 | 09:43 PM
#73
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire/west yorkshire
At what point in the power chase should we be thinking of uprating the clutch? I have a 2006 wrx wagon sl ppp 2.5 would you suggest I sell this and get an STI if I plan on going for more power?
04 October 2010 | 01:02 AM
#78
I always thought my car was quick, but i had a little play with a 911 turbo a few weeks ago, and he left me for dead.
Bear in min you can get one for £30k (or less) and it makes you wonder why we bother sometimes.
04 October 2010 | 01:18 AM
#79
Scooby Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
04 October 2010 | 01:25 AM
#80
I went out as a passenger in a 360 CS and wasn't impressed. Expected more.
04 October 2010 | 01:32 AM
#81
Scooby Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
even on a track the 360 felt so far from the limit it wasnt very entertaining.. IMO... i hear te likes of the R8 are more invoving tho
04 October 2010 | 01:39 AM
#82
the grip was astonishing, clutch was very heavy tho, gearbox wasnt great (less direct than the scoob).. but my main problem with supercars (ferraris, lambos, zondas, etc) is that they are so extreme that u could never really use one to its potential on anything other than a track... the sti on the other hand can be used to close to its potential every day
even on a track the 360 felt so far from the limit it wasnt very entertaining.. IMO... i hear te likes of the R8 are more invoving tho
even on a track the 360 felt so far from the limit it wasnt very entertaining.. IMO... i hear te likes of the R8 are more invoving tho
I remember Clarkson saying that on normal twisty roads a Ferrari/Lambo wouldn't be able to keep up with an Impreza or Evo.
04 October 2010 | 01:44 AM
#83
Scooby Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
plus I worry bout my scooby and its worth 7k... imagine how worrieed i would be if i had a 60k 360 or aston parked up outside lol...
p.s. any luck on insurance in an L postcode yet? i wanna get some mods but my insurance wanna add 1k just for a remap and exhaust lol... i live a mile from Steven Gerrard and John parrott for gods sake LOL... surely they dont have this trouble
Last edited by alp27; 04 October 2010 at 01:49 AM.
04 October 2010 | 09:10 PM
#85
Scooby Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
what do you want?
0 to 60?
quarter mile time?
or to get down the road as fast as possible?
6 speed or 5 speed?
i run 340/400 and the roads i drive to be faster i need better brakes/ not sure what would be better just looking now
so first you need to know what you want to achive
0 to 60?
quarter mile time?
or to get down the road as fast as possible?
6 speed or 5 speed?
i run 340/400 and the roads i drive to be faster i need better brakes/ not sure what would be better just looking now
so first you need to know what you want to achive
04 October 2010 | 10:34 PM
#86
The car is a newage STI 2002, so its 6 speed. It would be nice to be able to compete in the Scoobyshootout, and with well choosen mods keep myself in the standard category.
How the car performs on the road isnt to much of a concern from me as it wouldnt be a daily runner.
Brembo's with some good pads would surely be up to the job for what i need it for?!!?
How the car performs on the road isnt to much of a concern from me as it wouldnt be a daily runner.
Brembo's with some good pads would surely be up to the job for what i need it for?!!?
19 October 2010 | 11:20 PM
#88
[QUOTE=UK300 PRODRIVE;9635914]The car is a newage STI 2002, so its 6 speed. It would be nice to be able to compete in the Scoobyshootout, and with well choosen mods keep myself in the standard category.
How the car performs on the road isnt to much of a concern from me as it wouldnt be a daily runner.
Brembo's with some good pads would surely be up to the job for what i need it for?!!?]
Carbotech pads with Godspeed discs alloy hubs,good brakes will allow you higher circuit speeds,it is all about control.My old STI Wagon left everything behind on the straights but could not stop on the bends
How the car performs on the road isnt to much of a concern from me as it wouldnt be a daily runner.
Brembo's with some good pads would surely be up to the job for what i need it for?!!?]
Carbotech pads with Godspeed discs alloy hubs,good brakes will allow you higher circuit speeds,it is all about control.My old STI Wagon left everything behind on the straights but could not stop on the bends
19 October 2010 | 11:38 PM
#89
Driving tuition for success at SSO , look at John Felstead's(sp?) results.
With 2000 as you mentioned previously, maybe aTD05 18g, meth, 650 injectors, harveys up pipe, decat, 3port, fuel pump, lots of heat wrap and Dynamix re-map?
, look at John Felstead's(sp?) results.With 2000 as you mentioned previously, maybe aTD05 18g, meth, 650 injectors, harveys up pipe, decat, 3port, fuel pump, lots of heat wrap and Dynamix re-map?
20 October 2010 | 07:31 AM
#90
Ive never driven a car with Brembo's as yet. I purchased a STI 3 weeks ago and had it taken straight to the garage for engine work.
I bought some Brembo's (Discs, calipers, braided hoses, and two sets of pads) that were full recon'd by Godspeed earlier this year that I had intensions of fitting to my UK300, but I decided to sell the car prior to fitting. So I still havent had a scoob with better stopping potential that the standard Subaru 4 pots.