Rottweilers Strike Again....
01 September 2010, 08:36 AM
#121
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What we need to do is to analyse and understand why dog attacks happen generally, to understand what factors come in to play on all sides, what influences there are an then act accordingly.
Knee jerk reaction helps no one, least of all the victims. Never has, never will.
And that is something that you and others don't seem to get.
Knee jerk reaction helps no one, least of all the victims. Never has, never will.
And that is something that you and others don't seem to get.
01 September 2010, 08:42 AM
#122
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Morning "Devil Dog" 
Yep, could've been.... but it wasn't, as you then quote...
You then attempt to defend the breed by drawing a comparison against 'other breeds'....
Rottweilers are the second highest breed for the number of people related fatalities in the US, second only to pitbulls.
"a minuscule number" - so you find the number of attacks acceptable then? .... a few casualties so that you can continue to own an inappropriate animal.... I wonder if the parents of the children killed or maimed would agree with that view?
You're completely
Yep, could've been.... but it wasn't, as you then quote...
You then attempt to defend the breed by drawing a comparison against 'other breeds'....
Rottweilers are the second highest breed for the number of people related fatalities in the US, second only to pitbulls.
"a minuscule number" - so you find the number of attacks acceptable then? .... a few casualties so that you can continue to own an inappropriate animal.... I wonder if the parents of the children killed or maimed would agree with that view?
You're completely
What you lack is a sense of perspective, clouded by your own prejudices.
01 September 2010, 11:11 AM
#124
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Rottweilers are the second highest breed for the number of people related fatalities in the US, second only to pitbulls.
can you not see that along with pitbulls and others, the breed is chosen by america's feckwits/ganstas/'ard-men for it's appearance over everything, trained to be attack dogs with no purpose, unsurprisingly, they attack. Inevitably, an equal amount will be completely useless as attack dogs, and will never attack. If 10,000 labradors were trained to attack, you can bet your life someone would die at the jaws of a labrador.
Even though it has been pointed out time and again that it is not the breed, would banning the breed solve anything? of course not, the feckwit/gangstas/'ardmen would still exist, and simply move on to the next 'ard looking breed.
can you not see that along with pitbulls and others, the breed is chosen by america's feckwits/ganstas/'ard-men for it's appearance over everything, trained to be attack dogs with no purpose, unsurprisingly, they attack. Inevitably, an equal amount will be completely useless as attack dogs, and will never attack. If 10,000 labradors were trained to attack, you can bet your life someone would die at the jaws of a labrador.
Even though it has been pointed out time and again that it is not the breed, would banning the breed solve anything? of course not, the feckwit/gangstas/'ardmen would still exist, and simply move on to the next 'ard looking breed.
01 September 2010, 11:29 AM
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01 September 2010, 11:40 AM
#128
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01 September 2010, 11:41 AM
#129
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01 September 2010, 11:45 AM
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Are you asking if rottweilers are 'naturally' aggressive? Were they selectively bred to be aggressive? No they were not, they were developed for herding dogs, and also used to pull, so selectively bred to be calm, dominant and strong, aggression in a herding dog is counter productive.
Are you asking is left to their own devices i.e. brought up naturally in a wild environment without human contact? would they be aggressive, well, that is not possible as they would cross breed with other breeds, (humans recognise 'breeds' by appearance alone, a dog to a dog is a dog) but for the sake of the argument, The pack leader would be aggressive in defending it's pack, some other members would also be aggressive, some would be passive.
Your question is the same as asking are DOGS naturally aggressive, well guess what, some are some are not. Are you getting this yet? A DOG IS A DOG.
01 September 2010, 11:47 AM
#131
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Do i have evidence? What evidence are you looking for?
Are you asking if rottweilers are 'naturally' aggressive? Were they selectively bred to be aggressive? No they were not, they were developed for herding dogs, and also used to pull, so selectively bred to be calm, dominant and strong, aggression in a herding dog is counter productive.
Are you asking is left to their own devices i.e. brought up naturally in a wild environment without human contact? would they be aggressive, well, that is not possible as they would cross breed with other breeds, (humans recognise 'breeds' by appearance alone, a dog to a dog is a dog) but for the sake of the argument, The pack leader would be aggressive in defending it's pack, some other members would also be aggressive, some would be passive.
Your question is the same as asking are DOGS naturally aggressive, well guess what, some are some are not. Are you getting this yet? A DOG IS A DOG.
Are you asking if rottweilers are 'naturally' aggressive? Were they selectively bred to be aggressive? No they were not, they were developed for herding dogs, and also used to pull, so selectively bred to be calm, dominant and strong, aggression in a herding dog is counter productive.
Are you asking is left to their own devices i.e. brought up naturally in a wild environment without human contact? would they be aggressive, well, that is not possible as they would cross breed with other breeds, (humans recognise 'breeds' by appearance alone, a dog to a dog is a dog) but for the sake of the argument, The pack leader would be aggressive in defending it's pack, some other members would also be aggressive, some would be passive.
Your question is the same as asking are DOGS naturally aggressive, well guess what, some are some are not. Are you getting this yet? A DOG IS A DOG.
01 September 2010, 12:08 PM
#132
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If you say so.
Looks to me as if they were bred to GUARD. A dog which attacked cattle and other livestock would not be much use would it?
Oh and surely the temperament outlined above is not much use for an attack dog? I'm just trying to think of the last good natured attack dog I came across...?
And being biddable while not being aggressive or vicious hardly sounds like an inspiring attack dog either....
Originally Posted by The Kennel Club
These dogs .... were used to guard livestock. These mastiff-type dogs were discarded as the cattle were eaten or were left to guard outposts and many finished up in Switzerland while others reached southern Germany. They were especially known around the town of Rottweil which for 1,800 years was a centre for livestock trading. The evolving dog became a butcher’s dog, drover and draught dog.
Temperament
Good natured, not nervous, aggressive or vicious; courageous, biddable, with natural guarding instincts.
Temperament
Good natured, not nervous, aggressive or vicious; courageous, biddable, with natural guarding instincts.
Oh and surely the temperament outlined above is not much use for an attack dog? I'm just trying to think of the last good natured attack dog I came across...?
And being biddable while not being aggressive or vicious hardly sounds like an inspiring attack dog either....
01 September 2010, 12:10 PM
#133
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If you say so.
Looks to me as if they were bred to GUARD. A dog which attacked cattle and other livestock would not be much use would it?
Oh and surely the temperament outlined above is not much use for an attack dog? I'm just trying to think of the last good natured attack dog I came across...?
And being biddable while not being aggressive or vicious hardly sounds like an inspiring attack dog either....
Looks to me as if they were bred to GUARD. A dog which attacked cattle and other livestock would not be much use would it?
Oh and surely the temperament outlined above is not much use for an attack dog? I'm just trying to think of the last good natured attack dog I came across...?
And being biddable while not being aggressive or vicious hardly sounds like an inspiring attack dog either....
01 September 2010, 12:12 PM
#134
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On the subject of aggression (just to make it absolutely clear for the thread starter
)Have a read of thishttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...sive-dogs.html
More up to date than the US and Canada stats made up to 2006 that have been relied upon elsewhere in this thread
I've included some key points below:
Until now, research into canine aggression has almost exclusively involved analysis of dog bite statistics. But the researchers said these were potentially misleading as most bites were not reported. Big dogs might have acquired a reputation for being aggressive because their bites were more likely to require medical attention.
Breeds scoring low for aggression included Basset hounds, golden retrievers, labradors, Siberian huskies and greyhounds.
The rottweiler, pit bull and Rhodesian ridgeback scored average or below average marks for hostility towards strangers.
01 September 2010, 12:23 PM
#136
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They are defensive towards what is at risk of loss.
Police dogs don't attack, yet they bite. They are trained to do so. Should police dogs who bite people in the line of duty be banned?
Some breeds have had people buy them just because it makes them look hard. It's a sad fact that chav's choice of dog is the Staffie, which is now associated with Chavs and ne'er-do-wells.
The Rottweiler became associated with people wanting to look like they had big strong dogs to make themselves look big and strong.
My girlfriend, who scrapes 5 foot tall and weighs about 6 stone wet through, is happy walking fully grown male Newfoundland's which can weigh twice of what she does and then some more. That breed is also a lot taller and wider than Rottweilers. But as they have always had a good press as life savers, people don't associate that giant breed as being dangerous. Even in the Peter pan story, "Nanny" was based on a Newfoundland - why was she called Nanny? Because they are considered by many to be a good baby sitter. Now, is that the kind of image that the media have stirred up about Rottweilers?
Would a big, rough looking chap want a giant dog like a Newfoundland, which would just want to be fussed by everyone? Unlikely as it wouldn't fit his 'image'. Where as a compact, muscly looking dog better projects that image. And why does he want to project that image? Most likely as he's the kind of person who needs a dog for protection as he's done something to **** someone off and he thinks he's going to be attacked in revenge.
Police dogs don't attack, yet they bite. They are trained to do so. Should police dogs who bite people in the line of duty be banned?
The Rottweiler became associated with people wanting to look like they had big strong dogs to make themselves look big and strong.
My girlfriend, who scrapes 5 foot tall and weighs about 6 stone wet through, is happy walking fully grown male Newfoundland's which can weigh twice of what she does and then some more. That breed is also a lot taller and wider than Rottweilers. But as they have always had a good press as life savers, people don't associate that giant breed as being dangerous. Even in the Peter pan story, "Nanny" was based on a Newfoundland - why was she called Nanny? Because they are considered by many to be a good baby sitter. Now, is that the kind of image that the media have stirred up about Rottweilers?
Would a big, rough looking chap want a giant dog like a Newfoundland, which would just want to be fussed by everyone? Unlikely as it wouldn't fit his 'image'. Where as a compact, muscly looking dog better projects that image. And why does he want to project that image? Most likely as he's the kind of person who needs a dog for protection as he's done something to **** someone off and he thinks he's going to be attacked in revenge.
Originally Posted by The Kennel Club
The Dog Control Bill supports the principle that it is people, not the dogs themselves that make dogs dangerous. Lord Redesdale’s Bill would allow people to be better protected from dangerous dogs with tougher action taken against irresponsible dog owners.
01 September 2010, 12:25 PM
#137
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The first surrounds reasons for ownership/upbringing/training as gallois has mentioned.
The second concerns the statsitics themselves. They would only be overrepresented if the figures were based upon the the numbers of attacks by number of a certain breed. As the actual numbers of dogs living in the US and Canada are not provided, the stats themselves cannot be used to compare breed against breed. If, for example, there are three times as many Rottweilers as say GSD's, but only twice as many attacks, then the table makes the Rott look worse than the GSD when in fact the reverse would be true.
The only stats that can be relied upon to compare different breeds are stats showing attacks per (say) thousand dogs. And those stats don't exist.
Also, no stats exist for the UK which has a very different culture regarding personal protection than the US.
01 September 2010, 12:26 PM
#138
Pontificating
Attack being the best form of defense ?
So "intruder" enters site, guard dog see's him and backs up to the property he is protecting, snarling preventing the intruder going any further, intruder thinks sod that and ambles off and dog allows him to do so, no in reality as soon as he was over the fence the dog was after him sinking his teeth into his **** cheeks as he scrambled back over the fench.
So "intruder" enters site, guard dog see's him and backs up to the property he is protecting, snarling preventing the intruder going any further, intruder thinks sod that and ambles off and dog allows him to do so, no in reality as soon as he was over the fence the dog was after him sinking his teeth into his **** cheeks as he scrambled back over the fench.
Last edited by Funkii Munkii; 01 September 2010 at 12:28 PM.
01 September 2010, 12:43 PM
#140
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01 September 2010, 12:51 PM
#141
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Some of these dogs are bred to take down cattle and wild boar, they are friggin dangerous in the wrong situation; loaded guns.
...and at the end of the day unpredictable.
01 September 2010, 01:31 PM
#142
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Tony,
You are over generalising, clearly have no grasp of the subject in hand (its been 100 years or more since certain breeds (excluding Rottweilers, by the way) dogs were bred to "bring down cattle and wild boar") and therefore there is no point in further continuing this discusson
01 September 2010, 02:37 PM
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01 September 2010, 02:39 PM
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Tony,
You are over generalising, clearly have no grasp of the subject in hand (its been 100 years or more since certain breeds (excluding Rottweilers, by the way) dogs were bred to "bring down cattle and wild boar") and therefore there is no point in further continuing this discusson
You are over generalising, clearly have no grasp of the subject in hand (its been 100 years or more since certain breeds (excluding Rottweilers, by the way) dogs were bred to "bring down cattle and wild boar") and therefore there is no point in further continuing this discusson
01 September 2010, 03:46 PM
#146
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Seems to me that if a breed of dog has the basic instinct to attack or to fight, then you can bring it up to be as soft as butter, but if it feels threatened or claps eyes on someone or something that it dislikes intensely for some reason known only to itself, then it is likely to revert to type and attack. Such dogs or even all dogs should therefore be muzzled when in the public domain.
Les
Les
01 September 2010, 03:58 PM
#147
Little **** of a Jack Russell bit me on the ankle this morning as I rode my bike past. Not too much blood fortunately but still worthy of some germoline and a sticking plaster. 
To be fair, the owner was mortified and highly apologetic.
To be fair, the owner was mortified and highly apologetic.
01 September 2010, 04:11 PM
#148
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For anything the size of a jack Ruseel it's 'Meet my size ten' I'm afraid!
In that removal job (in a past life) I had the pleasure of being knawed on by a wee Westie as I took this wifeys sofa up to her flat with another bloke. I let it happen twice then swiftly booted the yappy little sh!te in the teeth.
In that removal job (in a past life) I had the pleasure of being knawed on by a wee Westie as I took this wifeys sofa up to her flat with another bloke. I let it happen twice then swiftly booted the yappy little sh!te in the teeth.
01 September 2010, 04:30 PM
#149
I cleaned my rottweiller's ears out the other day and obviously caught him on a sore spot, he howled and run and hid under the table he was shaking for quite a while.
The week before the cat (yes cat he lives with a cat) scratched him on his nose for getting a little to close to his gonads with his tongue (picture that
), now the dog wont enter the room when the cat is in there.oh such a brave and nasty breed those rottweiller's...
all of them are not the same.id say that 9/10 of the attacks you see in the sun, are dogs that have been bred to be guard dogs and not family dogs.
01 September 2010, 04:36 PM
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how can you reply to someone that thinks they are correct but in fact could not be more wrong.
I cleaned my rottweiller's ears out the other day and obviously caught him on a sore spot, he howled and run and hid under the table he was shaking for quite a while.
The week before the cat (yes cat he lives with a cat) scratched him on his nose for getting a little to close to his gonads with his tongue (picture that ), now the dog wont enter the room when the cat is in there.
oh such a brave and nasty breed those rottweiller's... all of them are not the same.
id say that 9/10 of the attacks you see in the sun, are dogs that have been bred to be guard dogs and not family dogs.
I cleaned my rottweiller's ears out the other day and obviously caught him on a sore spot, he howled and run and hid under the table he was shaking for quite a while.
The week before the cat (yes cat he lives with a cat) scratched him on his nose for getting a little to close to his gonads with his tongue (picture that
), now the dog wont enter the room when the cat is in there.oh such a brave and nasty breed those rottweiller's...
all of them are not the same.id say that 9/10 of the attacks you see in the sun, are dogs that have been bred to be guard dogs and not family dogs.