Tate Modern - more stupidity
12 October 2010, 06:25 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't define it, but I can say that when I see a piece of work that I know I could do then how is it art? For instance if I chose to have some people make 100,000 porcelain sunflower seeds and handpaint them to the standard of the work mentioned in my opening post I could and I could scatter them on the floor. Thing is if I did that no one would take a blind bit of notice until some arts council deems it to be art.
However I could never in a million years paint as well as Michaelangelo and his paintings don't need an arts council to tell us they are art. That is because the latter is talent and the former is not.
However I could never in a million years paint as well as Michaelangelo and his paintings don't need an arts council to tell us they are art. That is because the latter is talent and the former is not.
The sunflower seed piece is genius. Think about it...~4000 man years of work to create something functionally pointless....it's almost obscene and discomforting thinking about it, like some labour of hercules, but otoh it's a microcosm of China making consumerism **** for the world, that is deemed 'good'.
12 October 2010, 07:05 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wanting the English to come first in England for a change!
Posts: 2,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 October 2010, 07:10 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Art is about more than the object, it's about ideas, context, meaning etc. All modern art movements proved that it didn't need to be beautiful to be art, from Cubism onwards...Warhol made art from commodity objects...Ad Reinhardt made art from monochrome canvass....so aesthetics is something separate from art.
The sunflower seed piece is genius. Think about it...~4000 man years of work to create something functionally pointless....it's almost obscene and discomforting thinking about it, like some labour of hercules, but otoh it's a microcosm of China making consumerism **** for the world, that is deemed 'good'.
The sunflower seed piece is genius. Think about it...~4000 man years of work to create something functionally pointless....it's almost obscene and discomforting thinking about it, like some labour of hercules, but otoh it's a microcosm of China making consumerism **** for the world, that is deemed 'good'.
12 October 2010, 09:49 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2010, 03:55 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Art is about more than the object, it's about ideas, context, meaning etc. All modern art movements proved that it didn't need to be beautiful to be art, from Cubism onwards...Warhol made art from commodity objects...Ad Reinhardt made art from monochrome canvass....so aesthetics is something separate from art.
The sunflower seed piece is genius. Think about it...~4000 man years of work to create something functionally pointless....it's almost obscene and discomforting thinking about it, like some labour of hercules, but otoh it's a microcosm of China making consumerism **** for the world, that is deemed 'good'.
The sunflower seed piece is genius. Think about it...~4000 man years of work to create something functionally pointless....it's almost obscene and discomforting thinking about it, like some labour of hercules, but otoh it's a microcosm of China making consumerism **** for the world, that is deemed 'good'.
It is interesting that those who support "art" seem to be a particular type who use long words and throw in all kinds of facets which hardly ever seem to really refer to the discussion anyway. Mind you they all give the impression that they actually understand it all and that it proves the point even though it all sounds like a load of claptrap in actual fact. If pushed they will come back with yet another description in the same vein and the rest will all nod their heads in agreement!
Well I can think of a long word too. Its "obfuscation!"
I appreciate a good piece of what I consider art, and Mrs Leslie is an accomplished wild life artist. Her ability is admired by all who see it.
She like me is the last person who would descend into the abstract in an effort to describe it. It is purely extremely skilfully painted pictures of an interesting subject indicating how it might live in its natural habitat.
All this strange manner of attempting to impress others in such a ridiculous way leads to the most peculiar efforts which are regarded as genuine works to be admired by all.
It did it for me when the bloke who laid a pile of bricks on the floor in a perfectly geometric formation and told us all that he was the only person who could put it back together when it had been disturbed! Who was he trying to fool?
Les
13 October 2010, 04:10 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simplest measure of talent is whether the average Joe could do something or not. As I said I could reproduce that sunflower piece if I could be bothered and had enough time, but I could not paint the Mona Lisa.
What Les says above this post is spot on IMO and the problem is all this tosh talked about modern art just puts people off all art. That is a shame.
What Les says above this post is spot on IMO and the problem is all this tosh talked about modern art just puts people off all art. That is a shame.
13 October 2010, 04:27 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simplest measure of talent is whether the average Joe could do something or not. As I said I could reproduce that sunflower piece if I could be bothered and had enough time, but I could not paint the Mona Lisa.
What Les says above this post is spot on IMO and the problem is all this tosh talked about modern art just puts people off all art. That is a shame.
What Les says above this post is spot on IMO and the problem is all this tosh talked about modern art just puts people off all art. That is a shame.
If I copied the Mona Lisa to perfection with a computer controlled robot arm holding the brush would that make the computer a 'great artist'? Or me?
13 October 2010, 04:41 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2010, 04:50 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2010, 04:57 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A photo can do a more accurate visual representation of a wild animal than your wife.
13 October 2010, 05:32 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Neither as you are simply copying a work with a computer program. Now if you could get the computer program to 'think' and produce an orginal work of the quality of the Mona Lisa maybe then we could have a discussion.
13 October 2010, 05:53 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well firstly anyone who can do that at least has talent unlike our sunflower seed man discussed earlier. As to whether they are 'great artists' depends somewhat as to whether they can only copy or produce great orginal work and somewhat as to whether the 'art world' considers them so.
Was Warhols Campbells soup can original? You could buy said soup can in a supermarket.
13 October 2010, 09:30 PM
#47
You are confusing technical ability with art. The genius of the Mona Lisa is not in the execution, but in the idea. The division is not quite that clear-cut of course, but think: is a perfectly machined piece of metal a work of art? For a start, machined as what? By who? Designed by who? While you could certainly reproduce those sunflowers, you would never, no matter how long you lived, come up with the idea.
M
13 October 2010, 10:18 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are confusing technical ability with art. The genius of the Mona Lisa is not in the execution, but in the idea. The division is not quite that clear-cut of course, but think: is a perfectly machined piece of metal a work of art? For a start, machined as what? By who? Designed by who? While you could certainly reproduce those sunflowers, you would never, no matter how long you lived, come up with the idea.
M
M
13 October 2010, 10:20 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, but you are talking about the object of the painting not the painting itself. I can pop down the park and see a few ladies with enigmatic smiles, doesn't make the Mona Lisa unoriginal.
14 October 2010, 08:14 AM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not really. Pop art totally borrowed from commodity art. Warhol didn't paint a Campbells soup can he took it.
14 October 2010, 10:42 AM
#53
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw this and thought of this thread - is this art and if not, would it be if on display in the Tate?
Last edited by The Zohan; 14 October 2010 at 10:46 AM.
14 October 2010, 10:44 AM
#54
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where did I say that? You are really scraping the barrel trying to keep up! That really is a particularly stupid comment.
Where is the intellectual and spiritual content of an exhibit consisting of an unmade and soiled bed? What sort of artistic skill did it take to put that lot together?
So much "art" these days is any kind of rubbish that occurs to the "artist's" mind at the time and when it is exhibited all the so called cognoscenti pretend to understand what it is supposed to mean and spend all their time trying to impress each other at the time. What they are saying would almost certainly be an education to the "artist" as well!
You and your clever mates are being taken for a ride!
It is easy enough for anyone to appreciate real and skilful art of all types, but all the rest is rubbish and a con.
Les
14 October 2010, 11:33 AM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CHIPP'N HAM
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I visited the Tate Modern in St ives 3 years ago...what a load of rubbish that was....
1st room, full of clothes hung up on racks.... so i take my coat off and ask where I should put mine. The security guard (who was stood right next to it) replied, sorry sir, this is one of the exhibitions.... that's why I'm here...everyone thinks it's a cloakroom...
OK...so a room full of old clothes is now art...then I suddenly realised the room actually STANK to high heaven....because there were wetsuits and old trainers in the mix..
The rest of the place wasn't much better..
Will not be going there again...
1st room, full of clothes hung up on racks.... so i take my coat off and ask where I should put mine. The security guard (who was stood right next to it) replied, sorry sir, this is one of the exhibitions.... that's why I'm here...everyone thinks it's a cloakroom...
OK...so a room full of old clothes is now art...then I suddenly realised the room actually STANK to high heaven....because there were wetsuits and old trainers in the mix..
The rest of the place wasn't much better..
Will not be going there again...
14 October 2010, 12:45 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where did I say that? You are really scraping the barrel trying to keep up! That really is a particularly stupid comment.
Where is the intellectual and spiritual content of an exhibit consisting of an unmade and soiled bed? What sort of artistic skill did it take to put that lot together?
So much "art" these days is any kind of rubbish that occurs to the "artist's" mind at the time and when it is exhibited all the so called cognoscenti pretend to understand what it is supposed to mean and spend all their time trying to impress each other at the time. What they are saying would almost certainly be an education to the "artist" as well!
You and your clever mates are being taken for a ride!
It is easy enough for anyone to appreciate real and skilful art of all types, but all the rest is rubbish and a con.
Les
Where is the intellectual and spiritual content of an exhibit consisting of an unmade and soiled bed? What sort of artistic skill did it take to put that lot together?
So much "art" these days is any kind of rubbish that occurs to the "artist's" mind at the time and when it is exhibited all the so called cognoscenti pretend to understand what it is supposed to mean and spend all their time trying to impress each other at the time. What they are saying would almost certainly be an education to the "artist" as well!
You and your clever mates are being taken for a ride!
It is easy enough for anyone to appreciate real and skilful art of all types, but all the rest is rubbish and a con.
Les
14 October 2010, 03:48 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
tell thee what, the quality of that picture is pretty sh't!
