The Zohan

Now who's putting words into people mouth's?

Yup, deal with the lifestyle unemployed deal with the cheats remove benefits from those who choose not to work and pay less benefits to people with the max claimable being the national average wage - just like the Tories have done. Not a problem with that at all. I do have a problem with the CTC and a couple both earning ust under the max limit keeping CTC and a single person who is just over the limit not able to claim ctc - madness short sighted and poorly thought out!

I am happy for the money saved to be spent for the benefit of the UK population or reducing debt and i have been consistent with that

urban

iTrader: (1)

12.6 billion a year - yeah, dead tiny

Cut it off for a few years - 40 billion would go a long way in reducing the debt.

Leslie

Seems fair to me.

Les

David Lock

The total UK budget will increase from £8.4bn this year to £8.7bn in 2011, ... This means that aid will effectively flatline at 0.56%


We saved you £4.2bn already

dl

Dingdongler

I thought the figure was less than 0.5% of GDP even after the increase. Personally I don't mind that tiny fraction going abroad IF it in some way helps to save the lives of starving children. Actually I'd rather it went there than on benefits for some of the lazy good for nothing scroungers in this country.

Btw, they have scrapped aid to China and Russia

tony de wonderful

Welfare protects the ultra-rich. If welfare ended now there would be a revolution before midnight.

Martin2005

I'm not knocking anyone, I'm giving my point of view. Is that OK?

BTW my kids 4 and 9 and I want them to grow up in a more safe and secure and just world, lower taxes are on the list, but below those.

Also please at least acknowledge the consequences of the policy you support

Only governments have the money and resources to properly enact change, I happily donate to both home and overseas charities but do so in the knowledge that it's only a sticking plaster

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Only if it's the right point of view

hodgy0_2

the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina proves the old saying that

"every society is three hot meals away from anarchy"

maybe the government had that in mind when they bailed the banks out

Dingdongler

Maybe, maybe not. Definitely not if welfare had never been 'invented'.

Just look at countries like India. Most of the population is still classed as 'poor' yet there are ultra rich people there and a 'middle class' of about 300 million. There is no revolution there.

We could always burn the poor and this would help cut down on winter fuel supplements

tony de wonderful

Much of India is still the rural village, the peasant-poor can make a subsidence living off the land. In the UK, Capitalism obliterated that possibly in the 19th century.

Dingdongler

Plenty in India can't make a living off the land. Look at the millions living in shanty towns (as depicted in slum dog) they live virtually next door to people like the richest man in India who is building a personal 'house' for an estimated $1 billion.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/30/hom...ealestate.html

Anyway the poor in this country would not need to live off the land. You could withdraw all cash benefits and provide food vouchers.

tony de wonderful

India is urbanifying because its cities provide jobs no matter how low paying they may seem to be, otoh we have deidustralised in recent decades and now you have masses in limbo between the old rural existance of subsidence and an industrial existance as wage-slaves to capital....w/out state benefits they have no means of existing.

Food vouchers or cash = same thing.

Adrian F

Foreign aid should not be paid through Taxation, for those who believe in giving money to other countries then they can do this through charities.

Like wise we should not be paying into the EU why are we borrowing money to give to either of these things!!

why cut defence or welfare so that we can give money to other countries that is just so stupid!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Yup that Macdonalds stuff will definately kill you

dpb

Has this got anything at all to do with the caste system ?!

fast bloke

So if we don't send China 40 million quid next year, we will have to go to war with them???????? - 40 million into the Chinese economy is about 17 seconds worth of GDP, but if enough countries send the 40 million quid, they can use it to control currency fluctuations allowing them to have a massive export market thanks to the artifically depressed Yen. So we send them our cash, they use it to ensure their goods are cheaper than ours, so we lose manufacturing capability due to lack of demand, so the govt has less tax revenue, so they send China a bit more???????? WTFThat is as simply as I can put it

fast bloke

The EU thing is complicated. It is similar to Scotland's oil revenue questions. It is virtually impossible to work out if you would be better off or worse off if you go for it on your own

dpb

Surely these things are as much a pathetic bribe, to be kept as a trading partner , in the case of china etc

David Lock

Correct and I suppose it does mean we can chat to them about their currency screwing things up for us. A sceptic might argue that that won't make a blind bit of difference though.

But I would rather have China on our side than not. USA aside they're not many countries that could walk into UK and take over the place. But in 20 years China might have a more aggressive policy towards the West and with their size and population could probably swot away a few nukes. They have started on Africa already.

And it's the Yuan, not the Yen btw (post above).

dl

urban

iTrader: (1)

Seems we're both wrong

And anyway, even if your figure of £8.7bn is true - it's £8.7bn too much

Martin2005

Our aid to China represents 1% of the overall overseas aid budget, so let's not get too hung up on it hey.

BTW I fundamentally disagree with your analysis in China and the role aid plays there.

The Zohan

So you consider 40m trifling and not worth worrying about? - better spent in the UK than on a country who is probably lending us the money to give to them!

Leslie

And charging interest to do it too!

Les

GlesgaKiss

As harsh as it sounds, it's not some kind of natural obligation. Who gets to say that people should be forced to contribute to the charity of someone else's choice with money they've earned through their own work? And why do they have the right to make that decision?

Also: how do you define 'power'?

urban

iTrader: (1)

I think the overwhelming majority UK people are all for getting our own books in order first.
Then and only then should foreign aid be considered - assuming the country can afford it.

Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul FFS

Martin2005

Look guys there are some inescapable dynamics at play here, the we are living in a more inter-dependent world, things that happen in one part of the world will likely affect us. We cannot ignore this; we cannot pretend that if we pull up the drawbridge that there isn’t going to be implications in the future.
Let’s look at immigration for instance, the poorer people get, the more inclined they are to want to escape that poverty, so if you care about immigration you should care about this issue surely?
If we can help develop the economies of poorer countries then it helps the global economy, and therefore ours.
I think it would be completely short-sighted and utterly counter-productive to withdraw from overseas aid, not to mention immoral. Fortunately the government understand this issue.
I think it’s wrong to keep equating overseas aid to giving to charity, the 2 things are completely different, charity tends to be a short-term fix, overseas aid is (or at least should be) a long term investment in development.
Overseas aid can be justified on pure selfish national interest, that’s before we start caring!

tony de wonderful

Foreign aid props up and enables corrupt and useless foreign regimes. Just look at Pakistan for example, a corrupt medieval plutocracy spunking its money on nukes and space programs while it needs aid to feed its poor. Obscene.