stedee

iTrader: (4)

yeah but you took the filter off, why did you do that btw, now air in the system

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Unfortunate timing here.

Martian - My advice to you would be to not do anything other than the guidelines APi have issued you with for the moment. David is a top fella and APi have built more engines than most! Chances are all is fine and, as Simon says, it just needs cranking for longer. BUT, better safe than sorry!

If there is something wrong and it's not down to you then you WILL be looked after by David and the folks at APi. Their customer service is A1.

As for the MOT, if you cancel first thing, they're unlikely to charge you. Not much that can be done about the work situation I fear!

Hope it all works out for you

Ns04

martian_1894

Filter was taken off to check it was full of oil. When I spoke to them Friday morning the chap on the phone (not david) said to put a decent semi synthetic in and run it for 1000 miles going no higher than 4000rpm.

When it turned up with oil in I didn't know what oil was in it. For peace of mind I put my own in so I knew it definately had the right oil in it.

As for taking the filter off causing air in the system what happens when it comes to a filter change? The filter was full of oil and replaced back onto the engine. The engine was then turned over with the cam sensor unplugged as per the instructions with the spark plugs removed and we waited for the oil light to go out to say that the oil had built up pressure. what more was we supposed to do?

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

you need to crank it longer than 20seconsds to get oil light to go..

I don't think you hafve done anything wrong, other than not cranking it long enough.. and assuming sensor is refitted etc

Simon

dj219957

mine takes upto 1 minute to build pressure after an oil chnage.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Last time I fitted new engine in mine it took several 2mins plus cranks

Simon

martian_1894

Thats the thing On my old honda I knew it took that long but because they've in effect already primed it with the oil and I've just drained it and replaced the stuff in the sump I couldn't see why it would take so long. The last tim e we did it for a little longer but we really didn't wanna push it in case someting went wrong.

I just want to say I have no doubt that David and the guys at API will sort this out it's just I really needed it running this weekend and was looking for some advice on what it could be.

stedee

iTrader: (4)

yes but youve unprimed it by taking the filter off, youve lost the syphoning effect

you know it`ll be fine but i understand why you dont want to keep on cranking it

dj219957

your not gonna do any damage just cranking it, the starter may get hot but thats it.
the forces on on the crank with the plugs out will be small. crank it over some more!
your just catious and i dont blame you. i felt the same after mine was rebuilt.

A.D.Edmundson

Agree with jgm , u need to crank it for far more than 20 seconds, we have built numereous engines and have all taken at least a minute or two to build oil pressure.

Ant

Ian

iTrader: (10)

just wondering, but why isnt this the case when you do a normal oil change?, as didnt theengine have oil in/pressured all ready?

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Depends how long its had no oil in, sometimes takes a bit of cranking after oil change too

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

As mentioned above - by taking the filter off you have introduced air into the system.
To purge the air when the engine is in the car(2 man job):Make sure the spark plugs are removed and slacken off the filter a turn or two to break the seal - spin the engine over until oil comes out the loose filter and continue cranking while someone tightens the filter up.
The oil light will go out shortly after that.

Mick

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

I guess this is all sorted now ? I have been off all day, so just caught this.

ALL engines built here have a test procedure and full data of that test. The engine builder will have all the info and it will have had oil pressure and compression and leakdown tests, tested, monitored, and approved long before the engine left API.

We do / will support our customers as much as they need, but something is not right here. It was ready to go when it left and now it isn't ready to go.

Quite often after a spin of 30 seconds the light still hasn't gone out. PROVIDING that all the signs are that it should have OP and it has oil in the sump, start it and be ready to stop it immediately, is always our advice.

If you called APi today, l expect that you will have been told that. By doing so we are accepting the responsibility for telkling you to do so. No problem there then.

It is regrettable that you may have missed an MOT appointment. OUR MOT station wouldn't charge for cancelled appointment. Another garage might charge if you just don't show, but as they are unlikely to never see you again [ cos you missed the date ] how do they do that ??

Good luck, David.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

******** double post.

stedee

iTrader: (4)

lol

Splitpin

I'm late onto this one too, so hopefully it's all sorted. However, just in case (and for discussion/future value), personal preference on a freshly built engine is not to pre-fill the oil filter (and then crank it til oil pressure is established), or, in a variation of Mick's suggestion above, start cranking it before the filter is installed, and put a filled one on as soon as oil has started to spurt out of the boss, and then crank some more.

With the pickup and majority of the pump dry, the presence of oil in the filter can create an airlock that the pump (even with assembly lube in it) can be unable to overcome sufficiently in order to pull oil up the pickup and prime. While pre-filling the filter is usually a good idea, this specific scenario is an exception to the rule.

If sh*t happens, using a big syringe to force oiil into the system throught the OE pressure switch hole, while turning the crank slowly backwards, will work, as will gently pressurising the crankcase through the breathers.

That's one of the reasons why you should re-establish oil supply prior to starting after an oil change too. But in general an engine that has just had an oil change will retain a lot more oil in the pump and supply capillaries than you will find in a fresh build.

martian_1894

I spoke to the guys at API yeasterday morning and was told to crank it for longer, It took a little while but the light did go out! Fitted the new plugs and leads and it fired up first turn. I would have cranked it for longer at the weekend but didn't want to void any warranty!

The Mot station were ok with the missed appointment as they had a car come in to be sqeezed in during the day!

Big thanks to all the guys at API, I kow I've been a pain with all the phone calls and emails!

dj219957

all is well that ends well!

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

And thanks to unofficial APi staff that contributed to this over the weekend when we were unaware of the ' problem '.

Well done Scoobynetters, some positive help rather than the " sue 'em, report 'em" culture that so often happens in these instances

David APi

Can't offer you all free bacon rolls - there's too many of you and there's a recession on

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

It may be worth adding some new info on your supplied sheets here David,
As the procedure is a little different from what API have told him on the info sheets,
Or a side note that if you have trouble with pressure then try X, Y and Z maybe.

vindaloo

It's three packs (of 18 rashers) for £10 in tesco...

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

We have thought of that in the past, simply, there are so many options that might occur, that we are in danger of creating a document that people won't read 'cos it's too long and wordy.

In this case Richard took off the APi fitted oil filter to put on a sandwich block that, presumably, links to an oil cooler. By breaking into the system he created an air bubble that needed purging, which takes time depending upon length of pipe run and size of cooler rad.

When people get a problem we prefer them to call for advice, as a calm word is often best. It was just that in this situation it happened when we were closed and we couldn't be contacted.

But your point is well made, we'll look at it differently. and see what can make it more useable.

David

JohnHey

You could put a link on the sheet to an online FAQ, so the infos there, but the sheet isnt too wordy.

Fat Boy

Well done David for being big enough to agreeto look at your advice sheets - which in themselves are already a step up on what some other builders provide i.e. sweet FA- and glad all was ok for OP

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Jeezus man, It's only taken us ten years to get some semblance of a working web site.

NOW you want me to change it

JohnHey

yes, have it done by the end of the day!

LOL

Sorry, was trying to save work on the sheet, side effect of course being more on the website. Dont I would make a great business troubleshooter lol

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

I know I didn`t contribute to the situation, but I would be prepared to come over on Saturday and eat the bacon rolls on behalf of the people who did. I can do his on a regular basis, and maybe even start up a "project thread" about it if people want

Shaun

Cliff,
The idea behind that is you actually need to open your wallet and give some money to API first!

I might just be about in credit with API but unfortunately I don't do early Saturday mornings!

Isn't David the lucky one!