It's too simplistic to just say it did 400(?) bhp on the OEM top mount.

Mine made 340 bhp std but for a FMIC, the mapper said that wasn't that special, BUT he was able to add loads of ignition advance because the inlet temps were so much lower.

Thus it spool'd like a crazy thing on it's VF35.

IMHO.

dunx

 

It is not as simplistic as you seem to think.

A turbo will be capable of a power output but the actual power achieved will depend on the supporting mods and how complimentary or joined up these may be on that particular installation.

For a start the TD05 20G is not old hat. Unfortunately many specs of these turbos exist including some right crap but a well specified 20G is a solid, cost effective turbo with very good BHP per £ spent.

Unfortunately for some disappointed owners, 400 bhp from an MD321H is only possible sometimes and on a 2 litre the spool is nothing special.

From actually fitting front mounts to cars in the 380-400 bhp bracket and specifically going from an STi 8 TMIC to Hybrid GT FMIC I can tell you that you will typically pick up 15-20 bhp with a remap after fitting the FMIC.
In part you can see the gains to be had from an efficient FMIC if you monitor your current ACT. If your crrent set up suits you that is fine but be aware of the further gains to be had from an efficient front mount.

 

Think how much better the two cars above would be with an efficient front mount. What are peak air charge temperatures.
The 321 H is laggy on a 2 litre in my experience and as I have said above only some will hit the magic 400. However I do not doubt that it is a good turbo and has a place in the option list.

 

Look forward to having my Perrin FMIC fitted and mapped then

 

I ran a 321H for several years on my original JDM STI 02 engine, AVCS heads with 3" decat and 650 injectors, FMIC etc. On V Power it used to make anywhere from 395 to 405bhp depending on rollers etc. Peak Boost of 1.6 bar was about mid 3000s on the road in higher gears so pretty usable. In fact, I loved it, was a cracking turbo on a 2L.

 

Zaks crystal ball gazing was bob on then

TX.

 

Very talented man

 

I disagree Harvey sorry.

Just some brief looks through datalogs at cars and..

H on a 2.0 gets 1 bar at around 3200
T on a 2.0 gets 1 bar at around 3450

Both will hold 1.5 to to the rev limit

I cant really see a 20G spooling that quick or having the response of the ball bearing turbo.

 

The few graphs i have seen of 321h's dont spool that much later. Would that be laggy on a avcs car or a non avcs car Harvey?

So in your opinion Harvey, what is the best turbo to get one close to 400 bhp with the least lag?

 

What is simplistic for me is making the right choice and buying the turbo once, hence trying to gather as much information as possible and striving to make an educated decision.
Im more than happy to spend 1500 on the right one but not after ive blown the best part of a 1k on something that isnt up to the job.

Im sure all the mentioned blowers are worthy contenders for my application but after having my fingers burnt by one or two tuners over the past 12 months its not something im rushing into.

so to summarise, im still none the wiser.... .....

 

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me Duncan based on what you have observed. My experience of the 321H on a 2 litre is obviously not as good as yours in terms of satisfaction. I have 20Gs on Classics in 4th gear spooling to 1 bar below 3200 and just on Saturday gone, on Derek D's car, MY05 STi UK, so AVCS, with ported headers and one of my TD05 20G turbos and 600cc injectors I commented that spool was well below 3300 on the cars rev counter in 4th gear (6 speed box). As you know the car's rev counter is usually optomistic. Boost was flat almost all the way to the red line at 1.5 bar or thereabouts and Bob Rawle may still have raw data for that car which was a good example but not out of the ordinary.
I expect the 321 H would produce a few more bhp top end but you are comparing an £850 turbo, (my 20G) with a much more expensive 321H.
I am not knocking the 321H but the spool figure you quote are nothing special and not dissimilar to my 20Gs.

 

Im sure they would go better with better intercoolers.

Obviously if the car isn't working efficiently then poor results will occur. But on good cars the md321h does spool well.

Andyf said he tht a good td05 would spool as well as an md321h but the latter turbo would make 20hp more.

I have been impressed by your td05's and they are also a good option.

 

Just to add to this. I've just had the graphs through from the mapping of my 321T.

Turns out I was being a bit optamistic on the point at which I got 1 Bar. It actually makes 1 Bar @ 3150Rpm.

Here's what Zak said.

For reference from the logs run in 4th gear, 1.03bar is recorded at 3150rpm and 1.50bar at 3450rpm although wastegate duty is being reduced throughout these transitions to keep the boost in check so it could easily produce higher boost figures if that's all we were out to prove. 1bar in 5th was recorded as 2750rpm but this is right on the surge line so the boost threshold has been raised slightly to prevent this happening.
Good sum of parts mate, ie equal length headers, Harvey's uppipe and the 321T

Runs were taken in 3rd gear to keep the speeds down to suit the conditions however a short run in 4th to compare previous runs with the VF35 show an increase in torque from 2500rpm (graph attached to illustrate this), this is due to the VF35 being surgetastic when run with an induction kit as your previous set-up

 

 

Good hard information there. Your previous boost /spool figure was in top gear. Very respectable but it is normal to compare in 4th where the lower load on the engine results in a higher spool point.

 

Think the main reason for running in 3rd was to keep the speed down as the mapping was done on the public road Harvey. This is the graph to compare the MD321T to the VF35

 

I've got the T being fitted to my 2.0 STI PPP tomorrow, afterwhich I'll re-map it. Should make 400hp happily without too much effort whereas I'm of the impression the H won't as it stands. Mark at Lateral, who provides these, re-iterated to me today that the T won't spool anywhere near as early as a properly sorted VF35.

 

Does it really matter as once the T spools up the other car may as well be in reverse

TX.

 

What year car are you putting the t on?

 

Got a T on my MY03 STi and think it's fantastic! Will be for sale the beginning of next year though as I will be going rotated

 

2005 2.0 STI PPP, last of the blobs

I'm just about to scoot to Lateral to pick up some 800cc flow matched injectors

 

Cool but worrying to see that it's still never enough!!

Do you have a feel, and I know this varies from car to car, as to what boost you'd need to hit 400lb/ft torque?

 

To be honest, on the road it probably is enough if I'm honest.....but not on track

I got 375lb/ft at 1.6bar, so guess 1.8bar might make 400lb/ft, but ideally a 2.1/2.3/2.5 would achieve this a lot easier.

 

Please post up a graph here when you are done, i have the same car and this would be just what i was looking at doing!!!! But with a H, maybe you could swing me to the T.