How useless is F1 nowadays???
15 November 2010, 08:02 AM
#61
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I like to see either a return to more primitive technology such as manual boxes and clutches and big aero restrictions, or an unlimited technology approach.
One will result in a bigger test of the driver and less predictable racing (imagine missing critical gear changes etc), the other in radical and entertaining car designs - think the innovative 4WD cars and the 6 wheel car of years ago.
One will result in a bigger test of the driver and less predictable racing (imagine missing critical gear changes etc), the other in radical and entertaining car designs - think the innovative 4WD cars and the 6 wheel car of years ago.
15 November 2010, 09:00 AM
#62
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I think you must be very easy to please if you found today deserving of such praise. Another boring F1 episode!
F1 serves as a "spectacle" with plenty of sound, colour, "exotic" locations, pretty girls.
It serves as a showcase of technological advances.
It serves as a "race" by the Oxford English Dictionary definition: a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course…
What it doesn't provide regularly enough, is excitement. Today was a case in point.
F1 serves as a "spectacle" with plenty of sound, colour, "exotic" locations, pretty girls.
It serves as a showcase of technological advances.
It serves as a "race" by the Oxford English Dictionary definition: a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course…
What it doesn't provide regularly enough, is excitement. Today was a case in point.
Les
15 November 2010, 09:03 AM
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I think the single most effective way to improve the spectacle is to ban any form of wing front or rear.
That would remove the aerodynamic problem of close following and also promote a bit more sliding around and bring back the good old 4 wheel drift!
Les
That would remove the aerodynamic problem of close following and also promote a bit more sliding around and bring back the good old 4 wheel drift!
Les
15 November 2010, 09:49 AM
#64
Next year Active rear wings are being allowed, this plus the re introduction of kers is suppose to allow a car a further 160bhp boost. But everyone will have the same features so nullify their effectiveness.
Remove aero package, no refuelling and have one set of tyres for the race and see how drivers cope once tyres start to go off.
Remove aero package, no refuelling and have one set of tyres for the race and see how drivers cope once tyres start to go off.
15 November 2010, 10:03 AM
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Next year Active rear wings are being allowed, this plus the re introduction of kers is suppose to allow a car a further 160bhp boost. But everyone will have the same features so nullify their effectiveness.
Remove aero package, no refuelling and have one set of tyres for the race and see how drivers cope once tyres start to go off.
Remove aero package, no refuelling and have one set of tyres for the race and see how drivers cope once tyres start to go off.
15 November 2010, 10:48 AM
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It's technology combined with health and safety that has ruined all top motor sport. WRC with the group B cars, Moto GP with the 500cc bikes and F1 with the turbo cars. Bring those back and see what a revival those sports have in excitement and fan base compared to the dull racing that takes place now. That will sort the men from the boys and go back to who really are the best drivers/riders.
My opinion with F1 currently is that it is no longer about the driver, it's the best team that wins the title. Strategy and technology are nothing to do with the driver's skills but most of the time it's those two factors that win a driver the F1 title. Schumacher and before it was about the drivers with Senna, Prost and Mansell being the best battles by far for me.
My opinion with F1 currently is that it is no longer about the driver, it's the best team that wins the title. Strategy and technology are nothing to do with the driver's skills but most of the time it's those two factors that win a driver the F1 title. Schumacher and before it was about the drivers with Senna, Prost and Mansell being the best battles by far for me.
15 November 2010, 11:04 AM
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What a stupid comment!
So if I think something's poor, over-rated and boring but I have an interest enough to voice my opinion then I should stop watching it.
I watch it because I want to see if it's still all of the above and with hope that it isn't.
So if I think something's poor, over-rated and boring but I have an interest enough to voice my opinion then I should stop watching it.
I watch it because I want to see if it's still all of the above and with hope that it isn't.
15 November 2010, 11:36 AM
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All these people that are complaining - Did you watch every race this year, or just the last one? Because if you did only watch the last race, then you have no fecking idea just how good this season has been.
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
15 November 2010, 01:00 PM
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All these people that are complaining - Did you watch every race this year, or just the last one? Because if you did only watch the last race, then you have no fecking idea just how good this season has been.
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
Yes, there was the odd battle wheel to wheel stuff, but mostly it was whoever got to the first corner first, won. Baring any mechanical difficulties.
15 November 2010, 01:10 PM
#72
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Well, I can't beat you on the 20 years (only about 15 for me), but completely disagree regarding the 2010 season. 2009 was dull, but this year we had so many ups and downs throughout the year, you could never predict who was going to win. Not so when you look back at some of the seasons over the past 10 years.
15 November 2010, 01:10 PM
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I might disagree with Chris about Alonsoandso who deservedly lost at the weekend but I have to agree about the racing this year.
It has been much better and harder charging. Webber effectively lost it thanks to his own errors and crashing into others. Hamiltion definately.
The problem is by far these new tracks which are picked out by who gives that poison dwarf Eccleston the biggest brown envelope and that's wrong.
The Brazil race showed just how drivers can overtake when the circuit is right and while I take your point Les about aero and conditions, the conditions yesterday don't get much better but they still couldn't pass and that's a poor track these days.
I think there have to be tolerances in the aero package as there are now but no specific banning. Red Bull have shown a team can innovate and make the best car now. Brawn did it last year. When it comes down to biggest technology budget then that's when it gets poor. For me, the sport is going in the right direction. Just needs Eccleston to fall off his perch and get some proper tracks back.
5t.
It has been much better and harder charging. Webber effectively lost it thanks to his own errors and crashing into others. Hamiltion definately.
The problem is by far these new tracks which are picked out by who gives that poison dwarf Eccleston the biggest brown envelope and that's wrong.
The Brazil race showed just how drivers can overtake when the circuit is right and while I take your point Les about aero and conditions, the conditions yesterday don't get much better but they still couldn't pass and that's a poor track these days.
I think there have to be tolerances in the aero package as there are now but no specific banning. Red Bull have shown a team can innovate and make the best car now. Brawn did it last year. When it comes down to biggest technology budget then that's when it gets poor. For me, the sport is going in the right direction. Just needs Eccleston to fall off his perch and get some proper tracks back.
5t.
15 November 2010, 01:20 PM
#74
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I might disagree with Chris about Alonsoandso who deservedly lost at the weekend but I have to agree about the racing this year.
It has been much better and harder charging. Webber effectively lost it thanks to his own errors and crashing into others. Hamiltion definately.
The problem is by far these new tracks which are picked out by who gives that poison dwarf Eccleston the biggest brown envelope and that's wrong.
The Brazil race showed just how drivers can overtake when the circuit is right and while I take your point Les about aero and conditions, the conditions yesterday don't get much better but they still couldn't pass and that's a poor track these days.
I think there have to be tolerances in the aero package as there are now but no specific banning. Red Bull have shown a team can innovate and make the best car now. Brawn did it last year. When it comes down to biggest technology budget then that's when it gets poor. For me, the sport is going in the right direction. Just needs Eccleston to fall off his perch and get some proper tracks back.
5t.
It has been much better and harder charging. Webber effectively lost it thanks to his own errors and crashing into others. Hamiltion definately.
The problem is by far these new tracks which are picked out by who gives that poison dwarf Eccleston the biggest brown envelope and that's wrong.
The Brazil race showed just how drivers can overtake when the circuit is right and while I take your point Les about aero and conditions, the conditions yesterday don't get much better but they still couldn't pass and that's a poor track these days.
I think there have to be tolerances in the aero package as there are now but no specific banning. Red Bull have shown a team can innovate and make the best car now. Brawn did it last year. When it comes down to biggest technology budget then that's when it gets poor. For me, the sport is going in the right direction. Just needs Eccleston to fall off his perch and get some proper tracks back.
5t.
Webber has never 'done it' for me. Yes, he could always deliver on saturday in his Jag days and that was impressive. But his race pace has always let him down. Vettel make too many mistakes as did Lewis this year. Jensons struggles unless the car is 100% tuned into his driving style, although when this is the case, he can be devastatingly quick.
And as for Alonso, he also made too mistakes at the start of the year and then had some terrible luck with stewards decisions. The Germany incident ruined the year for me in terms of supporting Fernando. No need for it. Either win by yourself, or whats the point??
15 November 2010, 01:32 PM
#75
I heard a comment on Friday practice by Anthony Davidson, who struggled to get his point across with the other commentators laughing. They were discussing rule changes and increasing overtaking. It was a bit like this... an analogy would be like football and basketball. With football you have a constant strategic chess game taking place and it takes ages to build up to a goal (overtaking manouvre) but in basketball they score every few seconds.
Does anyone want more goals in football? Most likely (I particular remember the WC in USA and there was a rumour the US had asked for bigger goals, much to our national amusement. Is football any less exciting for only having a few goals per game?
I personally enjoy the way that F1 is all about the strategic game. It's been the same for years IMO. Yes some memorable races involved lots of overtaking, but that happens today still, there's a few overtaking filled races every season. But crucially not every race, and that's been the same for years.
Take the famous battle between Senna and Mansell at the '92 Monaco GP. Mansell (after changing tyres) was so much faster than Senna. But he couldn't find a way past. That is widely regarded as a great race, but apparently it also lacks an overtaking manoeurve. There are others, but too this day I can still see Senna and Mansell flying towards Rascasse.
I personally think the whiners (F1 is boring) are just that, johnny come latelys to see what all the fuss is about and then just being disappointed because they are expecting some type of rally cross action, junior championship crashes or Nascar lead changes every 5 seconds. They simply don't see the depth (within F1) that others can.
Yes I think rule changes will increase overtaking, but at the same time designers/teams are looking for the maximum way to get speed out of a car possibly negating the effects of any changes. Again Anthony or Karun on Friday mentioned a front wing feature (designed to help overtaking) that the teams just ignore and only use in only very limited circumstances, it was touted that the variable wing changes would allow the driver some degree of control under the turbulent air from the car in front just before an overtake.
The beauty of F1 is things like the F-Duct that Maclaren brought in (pure brilliant innovative design). It's also about seeing two different cars race 300 odd miles and finish meters apart. It's also about the chess game of working out where pits stops will be and who comes out where. It's not about sitting there and wondering why X isn't able to overtake Y for 2 hours on a Sunday. Personally I think if you have to wonder that and don't already know the reasons your not a real fan anyway.
If your looking for a race with constant action like some sort of TV soap (Eastenders?) well you're watching the wrong thing. I much prefer the intelligence of something like Sopranos anyway. I'll let you whiners get back to your TV Quick guides to see when the season restarts in 2011.
Does anyone want more goals in football? Most likely (I particular remember the WC in USA and there was a rumour the US had asked for bigger goals, much to our national amusement. Is football any less exciting for only having a few goals per game?
I personally enjoy the way that F1 is all about the strategic game. It's been the same for years IMO. Yes some memorable races involved lots of overtaking, but that happens today still, there's a few overtaking filled races every season. But crucially not every race, and that's been the same for years.
Take the famous battle between Senna and Mansell at the '92 Monaco GP. Mansell (after changing tyres) was so much faster than Senna. But he couldn't find a way past. That is widely regarded as a great race, but apparently it also lacks an overtaking manoeurve. There are others, but too this day I can still see Senna and Mansell flying towards Rascasse.
I personally think the whiners (F1 is boring) are just that, johnny come latelys to see what all the fuss is about and then just being disappointed because they are expecting some type of rally cross action, junior championship crashes or Nascar lead changes every 5 seconds. They simply don't see the depth (within F1) that others can.
Yes I think rule changes will increase overtaking, but at the same time designers/teams are looking for the maximum way to get speed out of a car possibly negating the effects of any changes. Again Anthony or Karun on Friday mentioned a front wing feature (designed to help overtaking) that the teams just ignore and only use in only very limited circumstances, it was touted that the variable wing changes would allow the driver some degree of control under the turbulent air from the car in front just before an overtake.
The beauty of F1 is things like the F-Duct that Maclaren brought in (pure brilliant innovative design). It's also about seeing two different cars race 300 odd miles and finish meters apart. It's also about the chess game of working out where pits stops will be and who comes out where. It's not about sitting there and wondering why X isn't able to overtake Y for 2 hours on a Sunday. Personally I think if you have to wonder that and don't already know the reasons your not a real fan anyway.
If your looking for a race with constant action like some sort of TV soap (Eastenders?) well you're watching the wrong thing. I much prefer the intelligence of something like Sopranos anyway. I'll let you whiners get back to your TV Quick guides to see when the season restarts in 2011.
15 November 2010, 01:38 PM
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So the fastest guy on Saturday usually turns out to be the fastest guy on Sunday? Shock bloody horror!
Well, I can't beat you on the 20 years (only about 15 for me), but completely disagree regarding the 2010 season. 2009 was dull, but this year we had so many ups and downs throughout the year, you could never predict who was going to win. Not so when you look back at some of the seasons over the past 10 years.
Well, I can't beat you on the 20 years (only about 15 for me), but completely disagree regarding the 2010 season. 2009 was dull, but this year we had so many ups and downs throughout the year, you could never predict who was going to win. Not so when you look back at some of the seasons over the past 10 years.
15 November 2010, 06:18 PM
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If your looking for a race with constant action like some sort of TV soap (Eastenders?) well you're watching the wrong thing. I much prefer the intelligence of something like Sopranos anyway. I'll let you whiners get back to your TV Quick guides to see when the season restarts in 2011.
I also think you cannot pass comment on F1 until you've actually been to watch a race. Television defuses the speed of the cars, the mindbending swiftness both in a straight line and how quickly they change direction. Then you will appreciate just how amazing the sport is and how the drivers are bordering on superhuman to keep them on track.
Go to a race, try and photograph one of the cars, then you will understand.
astraboy.
15 November 2010, 06:55 PM
#79
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Yes - these things need to be seen in the flesh to fully understand what it's all about but i wouldn't go to another race. You see **** all compard to the tv 
15 November 2010, 07:19 PM
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As for photography I like taking photos with my DSLR and hardly got one keeper out of the 100's I took at Spa, I ended up taking photos of the track rather than the cars just so I ended up with something to keep.
This year at Silverstone I didnt even bother taking the camera!
15 November 2010, 07:20 PM
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15 November 2010, 11:30 PM
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I was lucky enough to be sat at Donnington watching Senna drive down the Craner Curves visibly quicker than anyone else on a very wet day in 1993.
As mentioned above TV supresses some of the extremes. Go watch one just once and it will stay with you. Its been a really really good season. Hope next years is as close.
(I was also at Silverstone when Schumacher stuck it in the barrier and broke his leg. Not very far away and in full view....but watched it on the TV at my feet. Hey ho)
As mentioned above TV supresses some of the extremes. Go watch one just once and it will stay with you. Its been a really really good season. Hope next years is as close.
(I was also at Silverstone when Schumacher stuck it in the barrier and broke his leg. Not very far away and in full view....but watched it on the TV at my feet. Hey ho)
16 November 2010, 01:18 AM
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Another good point, unless you have seen them for real you dont actually understand just how bloody quick these things are, TV dosent do them any favours TBH.
As for photography I like taking photos with my DSLR and hardly got one keeper out of the 100's I took at Spa, I ended up taking photos of the track rather than the cars just so I ended up with something to keep.
This year at Silverstone I didnt even bother taking the camera!
As for photography I like taking photos with my DSLR and hardly got one keeper out of the 100's I took at Spa, I ended up taking photos of the track rather than the cars just so I ended up with something to keep.
This year at Silverstone I didnt even bother taking the camera!
16 November 2010, 02:04 AM
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16 November 2010, 03:33 AM
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16 November 2010, 09:03 AM
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Its a bit like old ladies watching **** just to see how bad it is!
Les
16 November 2010, 09:06 AM
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16 November 2010, 09:08 AM
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All these people that are complaining - Did you watch every race this year, or just the last one? Because if you did only watch the last race, then you have no fecking idea just how good this season has been.
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
It started with a boring race and ended with a boring race. The other 17 races were fantastic.
I suppose every game of football is just spectacular and you never have any processional games.
I agree that some track designs really do not help overtaking. You can't blame it all on the cars due to having so much overtaking at many other tracks. Next year should be helped by kers and the banning of blown rear wings.
You need big braking zones into tight corners.
Short and medium length braking zones cannot create over taking chances due to the following driver simply not having he distance needed to get the job done.
It just pisses me off that when there is a fantastic race, nobody says anything. Also, the same people that complain never contribute on the F1 threads which to me, shows a general lake of interest.
Then, when they actually bother to watch a race, they complain when nobody dies in a firey death!
Les
16 November 2010, 09:18 AM
#90
The only real gripe I would have with F1 in its current situation right now is that a car can be 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the car in front, then just sit behind it about 10m for the next 20 laps (at some circuits) because of the way the aerodynamics of the cars is today, causing little drag and disrupting the air flow for the car behind. For me that's just not on, I believe they are getting rid of double diffusers, I hope this goes some way to improving things.