How common is it for the 07 STI engine to go pop!
16 November 2010, 11:42 PM
#32
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newbie question...
what is the reccommended BHP figure you should remap a 2.5 Sti (my06) to on standard internals, and a turbo back 3" system with a panel filter, and an uprated fuel pump?
Thanks in advance...
what is the reccommended BHP figure you should remap a 2.5 Sti (my06) to on standard internals, and a turbo back 3" system with a panel filter, and an uprated fuel pump?
Thanks in advance...
17 November 2010, 07:03 AM
#33
Safe maximum for the engine internals as std is to stay under 400bhp. In effect that means remapping it to the best of the std VF43 turbo.. should cope with that just fine if mapped det free.
Start looking to add bigger turbos and it is risking it IMO.
Start looking to add bigger turbos and it is risking it IMO.
17 November 2010, 09:36 AM
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Fine I see your point, but what does the dyno trace show you between 6500 and 8300 ??
And more importantly where the peak of the torque curve is?
Inless of course you are going the RCM way and just running revs to increase road speed with no regard to torque.
F1 engines have surprisingly low torque as they are all about revs. There is no flywheel at all, a clutch in carbon kevlar which is no bigger than a decent coffee mug [ admittedly with 7 friction plates ] is screw threaded onto the end of the crank. They have no interest in torque just revs.
David
And more importantly where the peak of the torque curve is?
Inless of course you are going the RCM way and just running revs to increase road speed with no regard to torque.
F1 engines have surprisingly low torque as they are all about revs. There is no flywheel at all, a clutch in carbon kevlar which is no bigger than a decent coffee mug [ admittedly with 7 friction plates ] is screw threaded onto the end of the crank. They have no interest in torque just revs.
David
17 November 2010, 09:43 AM
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AND the VF43 cracks across the wastegate seat into the turbine cavity. They do that standard, without increased boost levels. My local dealer Crossroads at Tredington has a BIG bin full of cracked VF43 turbo's that IM don't even ask to be sent back U/ w.............
David
17 November 2010, 10:35 AM
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Well I have an 07 Hawkeye with 37K on the clock and the headgasket has cracked.
Luckily I bought the car from 2nd hand from Subaru so my gasket failure is covered under warranty but I took the plunge yesterday and bought some Mahle pistons and rods which are going to be fitted when the gaskets are being replaced.
To add insult to injury the clutch started slipping around 2 weeks ago aswell, so I am fitting that on Saturday also.
Its been a stroke of luck really with these failures because it sets me up nicely for a turbo change and membership to the 400+BHP club on my return onshore in March next year.
Now I have to decide between the M321T and SC46......
Luckily I bought the car from 2nd hand from Subaru so my gasket failure is covered under warranty but I took the plunge yesterday and bought some Mahle pistons and rods which are going to be fitted when the gaskets are being replaced.
To add insult to injury the clutch started slipping around 2 weeks ago aswell, so I am fitting that on Saturday also.
Its been a stroke of luck really with these failures because it sets me up nicely for a turbo change and membership to the 400+BHP club on my return onshore in March next year.
Now I have to decide between the M321T and SC46......
17 November 2010, 10:46 AM
#39
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Well I have an 07 Hawkeye with 37K on the clock and the headgasket has cracked.
Luckily I bought the car from 2nd hand from Subaru so my gasket failure is covered under warranty but I took the plunge yesterday and bought some Mahle pistons and rods which are going to be fitted when the gaskets are being replaced.
To add insult to injury the clutch started slipping around 2 weeks ago aswell, so I am fitting that on Saturday also.
Its been a stroke of luck really with these failures because it sets me up nicely for a turbo change and membership to the 400+BHP club on my return onshore in March next year.
Now I have to decide between the M321T and SC46......
Luckily I bought the car from 2nd hand from Subaru so my gasket failure is covered under warranty but I took the plunge yesterday and bought some Mahle pistons and rods which are going to be fitted when the gaskets are being replaced.
To add insult to injury the clutch started slipping around 2 weeks ago aswell, so I am fitting that on Saturday also.
Its been a stroke of luck really with these failures because it sets me up nicely for a turbo change and membership to the 400+BHP club on my return onshore in March next year.
Now I have to decide between the M321T and SC46......
David
17 November 2010, 08:07 PM
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So can we say that David's none too impressed at the Hawks and Duncan thinks they're pretty good?
Any thoughts as to why the head gaskets go? And would it be likely to go again after another year or two?
Also, if you replace pistons, if you are replacing one which is damaged, I take it you'd want it to be the same type as the remaining ones?
Any thoughts as to why the head gaskets go? And would it be likely to go again after another year or two?
Also, if you replace pistons, if you are replacing one which is damaged, I take it you'd want it to be the same type as the remaining ones?
17 November 2010, 09:12 PM
#43
Never seen ringlands go on any hawkeye sti i have mapped, I have never seen head gaskets go on any I have mapped and never seen bottom end go on any hawkeye sti I have mapped. The only issues I have seen have been head gaskets on unmapped cars strangely enough or PPP.
Mine ran far more than 1.3 bar on the standard pistons for around 40,000 miles with lots of track abuse with no issues or oil useage.
Dunno where David is getting his 50/50 scare stats from but I believe it to be incorrect from my experience but then maybe I am very aware of how to map these
Maybe some other mappers would care to comment on their experiences with the hawkeye sti and how much boost they can cope with but I have not seen any issues running up to 1.5 bar mid range on the std pistons.
If you replace pistons you'd either replace with a like for like one or preferably swap all out for forged items which will undoubtedly be stronger and more durable and able to cope.
Sometimes it is something as silly as the thermostats breaking down that leads to some slightly less scrupulous garages (or those requiring work) diagnosing head gaskets needing repair - I have seen this and think it is outrageous to take advantage of a customer like that.
Anyway, treat them well and understand the ecu and what causes det and they are a very easy way to get high 300's power and torque. Far easier than a 2.0 STi IMO.
If you want to go over 400bhp and you will need to replace the std pistons (and probably the clutch)
Mine ran far more than 1.3 bar on the standard pistons for around 40,000 miles with lots of track abuse with no issues or oil useage.
Dunno where David is getting his 50/50 scare stats from but I believe it to be incorrect from my experience but then maybe I am very aware of how to map these
Maybe some other mappers would care to comment on their experiences with the hawkeye sti and how much boost they can cope with but I have not seen any issues running up to 1.5 bar mid range on the std pistons.If you replace pistons you'd either replace with a like for like one or preferably swap all out for forged items which will undoubtedly be stronger and more durable and able to cope.
Sometimes it is something as silly as the thermostats breaking down that leads to some slightly less scrupulous garages (or those requiring work) diagnosing head gaskets needing repair - I have seen this and think it is outrageous to take advantage of a customer like that.
Anyway, treat them well and understand the ecu and what causes det and they are a very easy way to get high 300's power and torque. Far easier than a 2.0 STi IMO.
If you want to go over 400bhp and you will need to replace the std pistons (and probably the clutch)
17 November 2010, 11:19 PM
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Cheers Duncan.
Pretty difficult to get over 350bhp on a sportscat without a turbo change (which could in any event damage those pistons!)?
Good to have your thoughts on all of this - it's appreciated.
Pretty difficult to get over 350bhp on a sportscat without a turbo change (which could in any event damage those pistons!)?
Good to have your thoughts on all of this - it's appreciated.
17 November 2010, 11:26 PM
#45
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What's the differance between your map and the ppp in order to prevent the hg's and pistons breaking! My plan next week is to view a mint wr1 and decide whether to take the risk with the hawk or go for the ice blue! As ultimately I want to be able to use the car without being paranoid about blowing the thing up.
18 November 2010, 01:38 PM
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Hi I gave Richard a call at FB he was really helpful and suggested that I get him to check the ECU for any faults or info relating to the health of the engine. Which I will do. But again he suggested that it was a gamble buying a 2.5, just got to make my mind up now.
TX.
18 November 2010, 02:15 PM
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FWIW.
I've just got a Hawkeye PPP and had it remapped immediately by Bob.
Inital impressions, the 2.5 engine is a much better proposition for the road than the 2.0. Soo much low down thump; makes driving quickly effortless; even on the PPP map it was good! Bob looked at it and immediately got 348bhp and 380ft lbs of torque out of it! That's to say nothing of the improvements he made to the drive by wire throttle response etc... The real clincher is that the boost threshold at this power level is similar to a TD04 on a 2 litre. I sh*t you not! 2.5k revs and they're off like they mean it!
BUT
The problem with the 2.5 is if you want the "excitement" of the 2 litre car, where the turbo spools up and you feel like the car is running away with you, then you need a bigger turbo than is fitted to the 2.5 lump. Unfortunately, the engine internals simply aren't up for it!
Hence, as soon as my poxy insurance company pay out the settlement on the old car, my Hawk will be going to David for a forged upgrade!
Overall, VERY impressed with the hawk though, 2.5 definately the way to go for road use, just a pity Subaru didn't give them better pistons! My UK MY99 took 1.5bar and laughed it off for 3 years on the std internals and still felt as fit as a fiddle before the accident *sighs*
FWIW David and Bob both said, no more than 1.35 on the std pistons IIRC and you can usually take what they say straight to the bank in my experimence, with absolutely no disrespect intended to Duncan (it's just that I don't have any experience of him personally).
Ns04
I've just got a Hawkeye PPP and had it remapped immediately by Bob.
Inital impressions, the 2.5 engine is a much better proposition for the road than the 2.0. Soo much low down thump; makes driving quickly effortless; even on the PPP map it was good! Bob looked at it and immediately got 348bhp and 380ft lbs of torque out of it! That's to say nothing of the improvements he made to the drive by wire throttle response etc... The real clincher is that the boost threshold at this power level is similar to a TD04 on a 2 litre. I sh*t you not! 2.5k revs and they're off like they mean it!
BUT
The problem with the 2.5 is if you want the "excitement" of the 2 litre car, where the turbo spools up and you feel like the car is running away with you, then you need a bigger turbo than is fitted to the 2.5 lump. Unfortunately, the engine internals simply aren't up for it!
Hence, as soon as my poxy insurance company pay out the settlement on the old car, my Hawk will be going to David for a forged upgrade!
Overall, VERY impressed with the hawk though, 2.5 definately the way to go for road use, just a pity Subaru didn't give them better pistons! My UK MY99 took 1.5bar and laughed it off for 3 years on the std internals and still felt as fit as a fiddle before the accident *sighs*
FWIW David and Bob both said, no more than 1.35 on the std pistons IIRC and you can usually take what they say straight to the bank in my experimence, with absolutely no disrespect intended to Duncan (it's just that I don't have any experience of him personally).
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 18 November 2010 at 02:19 PM.
18 November 2010, 03:04 PM
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So can we say that David's none too impressed at the Hawks and Duncan thinks they're pretty good?
Any thoughts as to why the head gaskets go? And would it be likely to go again after another year or two?
Also, if you replace pistons, if you are replacing one which is damaged, I take it you'd want it to be the same type as the remaining ones?
Any thoughts as to why the head gaskets go? And would it be likely to go again after another year or two?
Also, if you replace pistons, if you are replacing one which is damaged, I take it you'd want it to be the same type as the remaining ones?
Duncan may claim to " know how to map Hawks " But so do Pat Herborn & Bob Rawle who map for APi and I'd pit them against any mapper in the country. There is no secret, just experience & attention to detail. Our resetting of the fly-by-wire makes the pedal feel MUCH better. In standard form it is horrible and mushy and not much better on PPP.
The mapping world has not been helped by that rubbish system that everyone is downloading off the interweb. All of a sudden every Tom, Dick and Harry is a mapper. With the emphasis on DICK.
David
18 November 2010, 03:59 PM
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Here's one at 30,000 miles
Doing this car right now. Mapped at no more than 1.35 bar.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...a/DSC00034.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...a/DSC00033.jpg
30,000 miles only. 2.5 Hawk type UK STi of course.
David
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...a/DSC00034.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...a/DSC00033.jpg
30,000 miles only. 2.5 Hawk type UK STi of course.
David
Last edited by APIDavid; 18 November 2010 at 04:16 PM. Reason: more info
18 November 2010, 05:33 PM
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FWIW.
I've just got a Hawkeye PPP and had it remapped immediately by Bob.
Inital impressions, the 2.5 engine is a much better proposition for the road than the 2.0. Soo much low down thump; makes driving quickly effortless; even on the PPP map it was good! Bob looked at it and immediately got 348bhp and 380ft lbs of torque out of it! That's to say nothing of the improvements he made to the drive by wire throttle response etc... The real clincher is that the boost threshold at this power level is similar to a TD04 on a 2 litre. I sh*t you not! 2.5k revs and they're off like they mean it!
BUT
The problem with the 2.5 is if you want the "excitement" of the 2 litre car, where the turbo spools up and you feel like the car is running away with you, then you need a bigger turbo than is fitted to the 2.5 lump. Unfortunately, the engine internals simply aren't up for it!
Hence, as soon as my poxy insurance company pay out the settlement on the old car, my Hawk will be going to David for a forged upgrade!
Overall, VERY impressed with the hawk though, 2.5 definately the way to go for road use, just a pity Subaru didn't give them better pistons! My UK MY99 took 1.5bar and laughed it off for 3 years on the std internals and still felt as fit as a fiddle before the accident *sighs*
FWIW David and Bob both said, no more than 1.35 on the std pistons IIRC and you can usually take what they say straight to the bank in my experimence, with absolutely no disrespect intended to Duncan (it's just that I don't have any experience of him personally).
Ns04
I've just got a Hawkeye PPP and had it remapped immediately by Bob.
Inital impressions, the 2.5 engine is a much better proposition for the road than the 2.0. Soo much low down thump; makes driving quickly effortless; even on the PPP map it was good! Bob looked at it and immediately got 348bhp and 380ft lbs of torque out of it! That's to say nothing of the improvements he made to the drive by wire throttle response etc... The real clincher is that the boost threshold at this power level is similar to a TD04 on a 2 litre. I sh*t you not! 2.5k revs and they're off like they mean it!
BUT
The problem with the 2.5 is if you want the "excitement" of the 2 litre car, where the turbo spools up and you feel like the car is running away with you, then you need a bigger turbo than is fitted to the 2.5 lump. Unfortunately, the engine internals simply aren't up for it!
Hence, as soon as my poxy insurance company pay out the settlement on the old car, my Hawk will be going to David for a forged upgrade!
Overall, VERY impressed with the hawk though, 2.5 definately the way to go for road use, just a pity Subaru didn't give them better pistons! My UK MY99 took 1.5bar and laughed it off for 3 years on the std internals and still felt as fit as a fiddle before the accident *sighs*
FWIW David and Bob both said, no more than 1.35 on the std pistons IIRC and you can usually take what they say straight to the bank in my experimence, with absolutely no disrespect intended to Duncan (it's just that I don't have any experience of him personally).
Ns04
Is it an STi or WRX you have (or should I say "started off with"!?). Got any pics.
cheers,
AndytJ
18 November 2010, 05:41 PM
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Ok, a question for you all:
Should I:
a) Buy a std 06 Sti and as planned fit a Milltek with sports cat & Walbro & remap it.
b) Buy an 06 Sti PPP - don't fit any bits, but remap it too.
B) strikes me as being cheaper - PPP models don't seem much dearer. I expect the std with Milltek will be marginally quicker, but will it be noticeable? On the other hand, I'm not convinced the Prodrive will sound as good?
any thoughts from David, Duncan, Paul or anyone else that fancies chipping in will be most welcome!
Andy
Should I:
a) Buy a std 06 Sti and as planned fit a Milltek with sports cat & Walbro & remap it.
b) Buy an 06 Sti PPP - don't fit any bits, but remap it too.
B) strikes me as being cheaper - PPP models don't seem much dearer. I expect the std with Milltek will be marginally quicker, but will it be noticeable? On the other hand, I'm not convinced the Prodrive will sound as good?
any thoughts from David, Duncan, Paul or anyone else that fancies chipping in will be most welcome!
Andy
18 November 2010, 05:50 PM
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I like a quick response!
What cats stay/are removed on the PPP Hawk STi's? Do the PPP cars automatically come with Prodrive springs ? (If not, it's not such a great deal!).
AtJ
What cats stay/are removed on the PPP Hawk STi's? Do the PPP cars automatically come with Prodrive springs ? (If not, it's not such a great deal!).
AtJ
18 November 2010, 05:59 PM
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Whilst I very much doubt you will name names, how prevalent is the issue of bad mapping and the effects on these and other cars?