World Cup 2018
04 December 2010, 08:19 PM
#122
I'm English,however,not just re football,I feel like the whole world dislikes England and the UK generally
Oh well.Cricket is more important than football anyway
...bunch of yobs every time I have been to a match
Oh well.Cricket is more important than football anyway
...bunch of yobs every time I have been to a match
04 December 2010, 08:22 PM
#123
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05 December 2010, 11:43 AM
#125
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last night, over dinner, I was chatting to a very good friend who happens to be a leading sport journalist, he recounted a few stories that highlight why we were never going to win.
Last year he was having lunch at a restaurant with a top French sports journo who is very well connected, and had recently been on the Fifa delegation to Russia to inspect their bid.
He told Nick (my friend) that Russia’s bid was very very impressive, they showed the Fifa delegation all the good (and bad) points of the bid, and Fifa seemed impressed.
Anyway, as they were chatting, in walked one of the English bids leading executives, Nick beckoned him over for a chat, introduced him to the French journo to retell the story of the impressive Russian bid – Nick said the executive looked at him as if he had just dropped a turd in his class of prosecco and just said “Russia, Russia, you must be joking they havn't got a chance".
As to why we all thought we were in with a chance – that’s just what the bid team briefed the press, Journalist are lazy ******* and just repeat what they are told.
We were hopelessly naive and are seen as arrogant by the rest of the footballing world – and from the above you can see why
Last year he was having lunch at a restaurant with a top French sports journo who is very well connected, and had recently been on the Fifa delegation to Russia to inspect their bid.
He told Nick (my friend) that Russia’s bid was very very impressive, they showed the Fifa delegation all the good (and bad) points of the bid, and Fifa seemed impressed.
Anyway, as they were chatting, in walked one of the English bids leading executives, Nick beckoned him over for a chat, introduced him to the French journo to retell the story of the impressive Russian bid – Nick said the executive looked at him as if he had just dropped a turd in his class of prosecco and just said “Russia, Russia, you must be joking they havn't got a chance".
As to why we all thought we were in with a chance – that’s just what the bid team briefed the press, Journalist are lazy ******* and just repeat what they are told.
We were hopelessly naive and are seen as arrogant by the rest of the footballing world – and from the above you can see why
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 December 2010 at 11:45 AM.
05 December 2010, 12:29 PM
#126
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last night, over dinner, I was chatting to a very good friend who happens to be a leading sport journalist, he recounted a few stories that highlight why we were never going to win.
Last year he was having lunch at a restaurant with a top French sports journo who is very well connected, and had recently been on the Fifa delegation to Russia to inspect their bid.
He told Nick (my friend) that Russia’s bid was very very impressive, they showed the Fifa delegation all the good (and bad) points of the bid, and Fifa seemed impressed.
Anyway, as they were chatting, in walked one of the English bids leading executives, Nick beckoned him over for a chat, introduced him to the French journo to retell the story of the impressive Russian bid – Nick said the executive looked at him as if he had just dropped a turd in his class of prosecco and just said “Russia, Russia, you must be joking they havn't got a chance".
As to why we all thought we were in with a chance – that’s just what the bid team briefed the press, Journalist are lazy ******* and just repeat what they are told.
We were hopelessly naive and are seen as arrogant by the rest of the footballing world – and from the above you can see why
Last year he was having lunch at a restaurant with a top French sports journo who is very well connected, and had recently been on the Fifa delegation to Russia to inspect their bid.
He told Nick (my friend) that Russia’s bid was very very impressive, they showed the Fifa delegation all the good (and bad) points of the bid, and Fifa seemed impressed.
Anyway, as they were chatting, in walked one of the English bids leading executives, Nick beckoned him over for a chat, introduced him to the French journo to retell the story of the impressive Russian bid – Nick said the executive looked at him as if he had just dropped a turd in his class of prosecco and just said “Russia, Russia, you must be joking they havn't got a chance".
As to why we all thought we were in with a chance – that’s just what the bid team briefed the press, Journalist are lazy ******* and just repeat what they are told.
We were hopelessly naive and are seen as arrogant by the rest of the footballing world – and from the above you can see why
Our bid had excellent technical merits, the least risk in all areas, it's hardly arrogant to be surprised that it got the least votes in a totally nontransparent voting system which answer to nobody?
It was the best bid on paper.
05 December 2010, 12:38 PM
#127
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That is just self-flagellating nonsense.
Our bid had excellent technical merits, the least risk in all areas, it's hardly arrogant to be surprised that it got the least votes in a totally nontransparent voting system which answer to nobody?
It was the best bid on paper.
Our bid had excellent technical merits, the least risk in all areas, it's hardly arrogant to be surprised that it got the least votes in a totally nontransparent voting system which answer to nobody?
It was the best bid on paper.
05 December 2010, 01:18 PM
#128
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...onfession.html
"... England's World Cup bid chief has believed for nearly a year that 13 of the 24 voting FIFA members were 'buyable'. Andy Anson made the shocking claim at a private dinner party in January and then relied on others who had attended the function to prevent the potentially devastating conclusion from becoming public. ..."
Dave
PS: cue 'well it's the xenophobic, trivialising, <insert abusive adjective> Mail - you'd expect that from them ' comments .....
PPS: Hodgy would seem to be one of the few people that thought the bidding was fair and above board from the above comments. Even Obama has talked about what a con it all was.
Last edited by hutton_d; 05 December 2010 at 01:20 PM.
05 December 2010, 03:24 PM
#129
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fvck me just read what i typed. Not what you want to believe i typed, or what you think i typed, or what you imagined i typed just what i typed nothing else - where did i mention anything about fairness.
05 December 2010, 05:01 PM
#131
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... which implies that you thought our bid was *sh]te* and that we had ideas above our station for thinking that we had a chance. Now you may not have meant that but that's how it came across. The wonders of the terse medium that is the ol' interweb/email .....
Apologies if I got you wrong ..... Dave
05 December 2010, 05:40 PM
#132
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Hold on. You wrote this ....
... which implies that you thought our bid was *sh]te* and that we had ideas above our station for thinking that we had a chance. Now you may not have meant that but that's how it came across. The wonders of the terse medium that is the ol' interweb/email ..... Apologies if I got you wrong .....
Dave
... which implies that you thought our bid was *sh]te* and that we had ideas above our station for thinking that we had a chance. Now you may not have meant that but that's how it came across. The wonders of the terse medium that is the ol' interweb/email .....
Apologies if I got you wrong ..... Dave
a leading UK sports/football journalist was talking to a leading French journalist about the Russian bid, (a French journo who had had been on the FIFA inspection remember) and he said it was very very good - surprisingly good - our media would not have reported this BTW, because they just report what they are fed by our bid team (which was, by the end of the process, that we were a shoe in)
one of the top members of the English bid team rocks up to the table, upon being informed by someone who had been to Russia and had seen at first hand the technical aspects of the Russian bid -- his only reaction was as I have described above, derision, if that is not arrogance then we obviously have different views on the meaning of arrogance.
yes we had the best technical bid, the best footballing infrastructure, transport links, policing etc etc etc --- but if that is the sole criteria why bother having a bidding process at all, and just host it in the UK for the next 50 years (until another country catches up) – it was never the main criteria
is the process fair – no not a chance, and if our bid team knew back in January that, as my journalist friend told me last night the Spanish had already confirmed to him last year “all the fish had been sold” – why bother bidding, as I said they are both naive and arrogant to think that the best technical bid, with added Beckham stardust and a slick presentation was going to swing it – it never was. And now all the hand wringing and self justification begins.
the most powerful aspect of the Russian presentation was the fact that western europe has had the world cup 10 times, and Europe east of Germany 0
even if the Russian bid was only 70% of ours - it made a pretty compelling case, and that is notwithstanding the fact the FIFA and the Russians are a bent as a 9 bob note
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 December 2010 at 08:06 PM. Reason: poor geography
05 December 2010, 06:00 PM
#133
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05 December 2010, 06:15 PM
#134
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Hold on. You wrote this ....
... which implies that you thought our bid was *sh]te* and that we had ideas above our station for thinking that we had a chance. Now you may not have meant that but that's how it came across. The wonders of the terse medium that is the ol' interweb/email ..... Apologies if I got you wrong .....
Dave
... which implies that you thought our bid was *sh]te* and that we had ideas above our station for thinking that we had a chance. Now you may not have meant that but that's how it came across. The wonders of the terse medium that is the ol' interweb/email .....
Apologies if I got you wrong ..... Dave
I think the naivete may well have been that we thought that having the best technlcal bid meant we should get it.
There have been big enough clues from Blatter about it being a world event and looking to develop the global nature of the game.
I have not read the whole thread but the one observation I will make is that the England bid team are an embarrassment to England.
We lose and we blame everyone but ourselves. It's bent executives, it's bribes, it's the wrong system. Everything except how we played our bid.
Strangely the Qatar bid team employed an English lobbyist who is probably got one of the strongest CVs on the planet for winning big events like this, including 2012. We decided we did not need him for the 2018 bid.
05 December 2010, 07:34 PM
#135
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The guy I mentioned above, Mike Lee, has now come out and spoken about the England bid. Remember this is from a successful bid leader AND an Englishman, well a Mackem.
He is not too flattering about either our bid or our 'system'. His comments seem to align pretty well with Hodgy's experience.
Even worse - there are moves afoot to bring Lord Triesman back!!!!!!!!!
Mike Lee
He is not too flattering about either our bid or our 'system'. His comments seem to align pretty well with Hodgy's experience.
Even worse - there are moves afoot to bring Lord Triesman back!!!!!!!!!
Mike Lee
05 December 2010, 07:38 PM
#136
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But then that's the Brits all over. Trying to *change* a system that can't be changed apart from being dismantled and rebuilt in a different format (cf the UN, the EU, FIFA, etc etc )Dave
05 December 2010, 07:43 PM
#137
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One of the things I do is work with companies on large bids for work - tens of millions.
If anyone who has worked on a bid is naive enough to think, in any system, that best financials and best presentation wins then good luck to them. It may do, but there is far more than that when it comes to winning.
And the most basic thing - the people deciding need to like you. And all evidence suggests that FIFA don't like at least some of our people involved, if not the English FA generally.
If anyone who has worked on a bid is naive enough to think, in any system, that best financials and best presentation wins then good luck to them. It may do, but there is far more than that when it comes to winning.
And the most basic thing - the people deciding need to like you. And all evidence suggests that FIFA don't like at least some of our people involved, if not the English FA generally.
05 December 2010, 08:11 PM
#138
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no problem and for what its worth I think we would host a fantastic world cup with 100% full stadia.
bang on - that's the crux of it Trout -- it's a people business and my point was that to many it seemed we came over as a bit arrogant.
05 December 2010, 09:30 PM
#139
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The bid could be handed in by Gillian McKeith and if its the best its the best. End of.
Good to see Boris is doing his part though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11921692
5t.
05 December 2010, 09:47 PM
#140
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the best multicultural support, transport (internal and external links), stadia (safety etc), training facilities, football culture, leagues, climate, commercial opportunities, tourist infrastructure (hotels) etc etc
and that is just not going to happen
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 December 2010 at 09:54 PM.
05 December 2010, 10:20 PM
#141
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I think what annoys most people (including myself), is that FIFA had a criteria for who they wanted to host the 2018 WC and we didn't meet that from the beginning. They should have said we will only accept bids from continents/countries that haven't hosted it before, then the next WC we'll accept bids from past hosts etc. The reason they don't IMO is they like being sucked up to getting no doubt endless freebies/promises.
05 December 2010, 10:28 PM
#142
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except that's what the issue with this was right at the start. It shouldn't be about who has the biggest brown envelope It should be about the best technical bid.
The bid could be handed in by Gillian McKeith and if its the best its the best. End of.
Good to see Boris is doing his part though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11921692
5t.
The bid could be handed in by Gillian McKeith and if its the best its the best. End of.
Good to see Boris is doing his part though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11921692
5t.
To make it simpler - if you have two bids that are identical in technical merit, and you like working with one team and not the other, which are you likely to choose?
It would seem from the outside that the England bid team forgot this.
Take it a step further and if the 'buyers' do not like you they may not even read your fabulous technical bid!
05 December 2010, 10:49 PM
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One of the things I do is work with companies on large bids for work - tens of millions.
If anyone who has worked on a bid is naive enough to think, in any system, that best financials and best presentation wins then good luck to them. It may do, but there is far more than that when it comes to winning.
And the most basic thing - the people deciding need to like you. And all evidence suggests that FIFA don't like at least some of our people involved, if not the English FA generally.
If anyone who has worked on a bid is naive enough to think, in any system, that best financials and best presentation wins then good luck to them. It may do, but there is far more than that when it comes to winning.
And the most basic thing - the people deciding need to like you. And all evidence suggests that FIFA don't like at least some of our people involved, if not the English FA generally.
05 December 2010, 10:51 PM
#145
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06 December 2010, 07:59 AM
#147
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I think what annoys most people (including myself), is that FIFA had a criteria for who they wanted to host the 2018 WC and we didn't meet that from the beginning. They should have said we will only accept bids from continents/countries that haven't hosted it before, then the next WC we'll accept bids from past hosts etc. The reason they don't IMO is they like being sucked up to getting no doubt endless freebies/promises.
it is just as important to know when to "no bid" as it is to bid
06 December 2010, 10:06 AM
#148
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My point is not about brown envelopes - of course that is wrong.
To make it simpler - if you have two bids that are identical in technical merit, and you like working with one team and not the other, which are you likely to choose?
It would seem from the outside that the England bid team forgot this.
Take it a step further and if the 'buyers' do not like you they may not even read your fabulous technical bid!
To make it simpler - if you have two bids that are identical in technical merit, and you like working with one team and not the other, which are you likely to choose?
It would seem from the outside that the England bid team forgot this.
Take it a step further and if the 'buyers' do not like you they may not even read your fabulous technical bid!
Are FIFA building the stadiums and hosting the event? No.
They have no work to do other than accept more freebies so it doesn't matter.
I also work with firms doing deal worth a fair few million and I understand the value of relationships on a day to day basis. However, this is simply about looking at something and picking the best possible one, the one that meets the criteria laid down. If it ticks the boxes then nothing else matters.
The last few days have shown that FIFA themselves are a bunch of liars and if Mr Lee wants to slide his head up Sepp Blatter's behind then good luck to him. I'd rather we didn't operate like that and I'm glad we haven't.
Agree with others that FIFA should set proper criteria to avoid countries wasting time and effort. e.g. If you've hosted in the last 50 years then no go.
5t.
06 December 2010, 10:48 AM
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On Saturday I turned on Radio 5 Live and they were still banging on about the World Cup bid, on Sunday the same. There were people phoning in saying we shoul break away from FIFA or (and I kid you not) take economic sanctions against them LOL!
Never have I heard something so utterly blown out of proportion. Why are people so obsessive about it? We didn't get it, there is nothing we can do now, get over it and move on FFS!!!
Never have I heard something so utterly blown out of proportion. Why are people so obsessive about it? We didn't get it, there is nothing we can do now, get over it and move on FFS!!!