Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Yeah they do take a bit of stopping once they start. It is usually a combination of events that cause it all, same as most accidents. One person panick brakes and every one has a knee jerk reaction, the hgv driver, who can see all this coming has no option but to brake, whether he thinks it is safe to do so or not, ie going down hill. And us Brits not having the experience in these conditions usually no help. If we had ice and snow for 6 months of the year we would learn to drive in it.

maydew

iTrader: (9)

too true,

i got the second part of my cpc next week another 7 hours of my life wasted,last years they were showing us statistics of how many car crashes were on the m6 against country road crashes from 1980

maybe they should show us from last years snow .

maydew

iTrader: (9)

now now i thought we had come to some agreement on this debate lol

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Having seen cars bolt from the THIRD lane to the slip road it is not suprising that these D!(K heads still do this in adverse conditions. Usually they are far from the scene of the incident without any video evidence, thus the truck driver gets the blame.
I don't doubt that there are a few idiot HGV drivers but 99.9% are exceptional drivers and need to be comended for the job that they do!!

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

I could never see the point in putting existing/experienced drivers through it. It will not change the old timers and i know a few that will retire before they take it.


I'm over half way through NVQ Level 4 in Occupational Health and Safety Practice, then ive got the NEBOSH diploma to study for, 550 hours But i just think how many hours ive spent in 6x8 tin can going nowhere and it don't seem so bad.

tony de wonderful

HGV Driver are under a lot of pressure to get from a - b in a certain time.

Still it makes my blood boil when they won't surrender a few feet of road to let you slot in to exit motorways sometimes.

rogos

one thing you are forgetting is that with a car the majority of the weight is at the front (engine) which effectively pulls the veh in a straight forward motion which is why a car on an icy bend always goes straight on instead of round it if it spins out on a bend or a straight road it is usually down to driver error, avaisive driving or the road camber or all of them. Now with a truck all the weight is sitting on the trailer which is effectively hanging off the back end so when a truck tries to make it round an icy bend it jacknifes because the front bit tries to go round the corner but the back bit carries straight on q jacknife, if a truck jacknifes on a straight road it can also be caused by driver error or road camber but it can also be caused by the driver trying to take avaisive action as well it is alot harder to stop and control a 44 ton truck than what it is to stop and control a 1.5 ton car you do the maths. plus another point someone mentioned earlier in the thread the truck hanging 3 inches off his back end, well what about the car that just overtook the truck and cut back in too early and sharp so it spun out in front of the truck see where this is going!!! truck driver starts to steer around obstruction in snow, car slows down faster than truck, truck has to brake and trailer pushes forwards.....jacknife! now dont deny it because not only am i a mechie but i also drive big rigs myself so i get to witness what goes on on our roads from all angles including the aftermarth, at the end of the day we are all as bad as eachother after all how many of us was driving on winter tyres in the snow i bet the answer is none of us. dont pin the truckers for it all, after all they are trying to keep your local supermarket stocked up so you dont go hungry, now theres a thought.

rogos

that few feet is their safety zone should they need to stop or get out of harms way, if you cant overtake safely before your junction then you have miss judged it and should have sat behind the truck until your exit instead of try to cut him. when i am not in a truck myself but in my scoob i have no trouble with truckers at all and they always give me the room i need but it all depends on how well and quickly you plan ahead and how often you evaluate your position and surroundings while driving down the road.

tony de wonderful

I'm talking about them driving virtually bumper to bumper anyway. If all Drivers leave a true safety zone in front of them on a motorway there is room for about 5 cars to slot in.

Sometimes the motorway is choc and you are stuck in L2, and need to get onto L1 to exit the motorway.

I'm not saying all Truckers are ignorant, but common courtesy would be to lift off the throttle for a second just to give a gap.

StickyMicky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYo3kORaXAo

Yup

DYK

My mate has been driving all week up through Scotland and back down the North East,got home Saturday morning without any major problems.Only got slightly stuck after he dropped the load and the weight had gone from the tractor wheels,causing him to spin getting back out the customers yard.He said some drivers were going way too fast for the conditions,including a couple of truckers heading up the A92 kirkcaldy one in the outside lane inches from the van infront,that p1ssed him off seeing a trucker doing that.What got him a bit mad was car drivers infront braking/slowing down going uphill.He said i needed to keep my speed going uphill and although i allowed safe distance to the vehicle infront,it doesn't help when they slowdown for no reason,as it causing me to slow sown to keep that safe distance,and icy hills are a problem unloaded.He was glad to get to Newcastle to pick a load up and get some weight back on the tractor wheels,he also said these modern trucks now being Automatic gears,don't help in condotions like this,but once you got some weight on the front it's pritty much ok..

rob 666

iTrader: (1)

i personally enjoy driving them in these conditions , as im a mechanic and not a driver i only ever take tractor unit's out, switch the t/c off and have some sideways fun

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Remember: Gritters are HGVs too, and they cope OK.

Our old tipper was a bit pants in the snow unloaded, however stick 3 ton of gravel on the back and it was fine (being a tipper it had M+S tyres from new, coach builder fitted them when putting on the tipper body).

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

So your saying that in heavy snow where visibility for a car driver is low (overtaking slowly, other cars in the left hand lane), its ok for a truck driver to come flying up (we are talking from 400+m and not slowing down to adjust to the adverse conditions or traffic), and flash you to get out of the way
Yes and you wonder why they crash
Its called bad driving on the truck drivers behalf, hence why they normally jack knife in the first place

Tony

Leslie

Might be the way the braking is set up on a big rig, when some prat makes the HGV have to hit the brakes hard on snow, the trailer wheels lock too easily,maybe due to weight transference. Once the trailer starts to overtake the donkey into a jack knife it must be impossible to control it.

Can't blame the driver for that.

Les

Chip

Chip (HGV licence holder)

Anger

iTrader: (4)

I remember why i dont drive my car in the snow with all you expert HGV drivers out there causing hayhem

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

On good modern tractor units, there are plenty of toys to play with with regards to air suspenion, brake distribution and jake brakes (engine braking - can be turned on or off or on various levels of automatic). I suppose the debate is if the driver knows how to use them properly to best suit the conditions....

Chip

I didnt know Marks and Spencers sold tyres now.

Chip

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

[ plays some fleetwood mac ]

Ahh, these are not just Tyres....

These are rubber coated, steel belted radial M&S tyres with a large blocked tread pattern

**jay**

iTrader: (1)

A lot of jackknifes are due to autos(no clutch) and it rapidly trying to go down gears itsself when braking and exhausts brakes that cant be turned off on some new units causing the drive wheels on the unit to lock up when braking as soon as i feel mine go im on the clutch, thats why i hate all these new automatics.

stevie boy

i managed to save one the other day, on the A1 doing a constant 40mph, massive gap to the traffic infront doing 40, around a thousand revs below where the turbo comes in, the road was level, straight and i was driving in the wheelings. the back end of the unit snapped into the deserted lane 2, no warning, i did nothing wrong! 2 trucks did jack knife in that section. they're actually quite good in fresh and conpacted snow, but its ice that gets them

Biggs

iTrader: (14)

Yes but the only way to "deal with it" in a situation like that is to slow down which would cause you to get stuck on a hill (then be moaned at for blocking the roads in these conditions ) or overtake the slowing car so as to keep traction yourself, then again get moaned at for driving like a maniac.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I understand the hill part, but on straight, FLAT road, there is no need for it.
2 stories taken from the news, found in about 20 secs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-11918246
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-11921416

Unfortunate for the 2nd one, 1st one a little more serious!

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You can also add this one to the above can happen to any vehicle, not just a truck
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11921448
Add this one too, driver error on the part of everyone by the sounds
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-11921336
And this one which is very sad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-11914456

stevie boy

i don't see the relavance in the links you've posted to your argument. very few facts are known on either incident at this stage. the 1st one a truck hits a vehicle on the hard shoulder, no mention of traveling too close to a vehicle, the fact he's been arrested i'd imagine is standard procedure in a fatal untill the facts are known. the 2nd one no one else was involved and it wasn't linked to the cold snap.


stevie

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yet the conditions on the 2nd one were still sub zero, they may not have linked said incident to ice/snow, still does not mean it didnt play a factor (unless the driver fell asleep).
Its quite hard to acutally "go off the road".
1st one is death by dangerous driving, trucks take up more road, should be more concious of other users, especially broken down vehicles (its been said before, HGV drivers are better than everyone else ) though the occupants should have left the vehicle when it had broken down.
You can try all you want, but a fair few truck drivers drive like idiots in the snow and ice because they think they have more grip, where in fact they have less than your average car and are relying on weight/momentum, which bites when they need to stop!

Tony

DYK

Well i can't speak for all lorry drivers but my mate is not the sort that drives 6" from the vehicle in front,trouble is when you got a group of cars in front going up an icy hill and one brakes then that causes the other to brake and so on.He even said that he was having to leave up to maybe 600 yard gap so he could get a good run up the hills.In a car you can easily slow down and pick up speed again,it's no so easy in a truck.Yes trucks should not be driving 6" from the vehicle in front but some do and are stupid for doing it,but car drivers should not be braking going up a hill either should they,are they even looking in the mirrors to see what's behind them...