alcazar

iTrader: (2)

AFAIK, H&S offered to refund postage costs if he returned it. This is comon and saves time.

He tried to cut corners by not buying enough insurance, or wasn't savvy enough to ask about it, and so when it was lost, he can only claim £90.

H&S ACCEPTED resonsibility for it being wrong.

The op is at fault for the loss, so must bear it himself.

imprezajon

iTrader: (2)

i personnally feel that there is blame on both sides.
as the item was unfit for purpose H&S could/should have offered to pay for the postage cost to return it to them and not expect the seller to pay out of his own pocket and recover the cost back especially if they had admitted that it was wrong. they could have used the same company that delivered it to collect.that to me would be good basic customer service.
and the seller for accepting responsibilty to return it himself and not insure it for the price he paid.

53

iTrader: (41)

I am surprised this thread is still open given it's just a troll thread with no achievable outcome

Change the thread title at least

Postage FAIL

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Is the nicest sport in the world worth having this monstrously expensive item fitted to it ?

dunx

P.S. Credit card sale ? Far greater rights to claim, that's why I have one...

jh1

I doubt it,s a case of sending a wrong part unless it does fit another vehicle correctly. From the pics it does look like a trainee had a go and it never got checked. Unfortunate said item went missing as H+S would have rectified the problem. Bad press will cost H+S more than a good will gesture in this case, jason

Alan Jeffery

Being fair to H and S we've found it doesn't matter where you buy an exhaust system from, you occasionally get a bad fit. Sometimes it's down to things people don't think about, like engine and transmission mounting variations. I dare say you also get the odd one where the jig is out, or the guy with the welding torch is having an off day. We have had one or two shockers from some mainstream players, but hey, we just deal with it. that's one advantage of not attempting to fit it yourself!

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

It does say on their ad for that header system its made to order.Rushed friday job i bet LOL

53

iTrader: (41)

Still a postage FAIL which ever way you cut it.

The transaction was, as I read it, meant to be over a year ago, in which time the person that may or may not have made a Friday manifold may or may not even still work there. So why draw conclusions in the present based on the inconclusive events of the past ? Trolling of this kind wouldn't be tolerated for other traders on snet !

What is constant throughout, and pretty inescapable, is that the OP failed in his duty of care to return the exhaust to enable a refund/exchange. So yes good companies can make mistakes and good customers can too, we're all human

The only bummer for the OP, which he is rightly pis$ed at (himself I imagine), is that he royally messed up the conclusion of the transaction by not returning the item properly thus denying himself the opportunity of refund or exchange.

Conclusion, move on dude, you won't achieve anything

Pink_Floyd

Regardless of what the fault or problem was, the OP should have made sure there was adequate insurance cover on the item.

If H&S are in the wrong for refusing to pay postage or collect, and the OP then takes it upon themselves to return the item, then the liability is firmly with them to ensure the item arrives safely and is insured correctly. If H&S were refusing to pay for return postage and insurance then the OP should have battled this out with them until they agreed full costs before sending.

If they would not agree costs he should have gotten this in writing and then sent it properly with a view to reclaim postage at a later date, not to send it as cheaply as possible and then complain when a 3r party, not H&S, loose the item.

Setright

Okay..so, two things are getting missed in this thread:

1)H&S did nothing but taunt and tease me, and blame ME for their manifold not fitting. The fitting was attempted by an Authorised Subaru dealer. H&S should have at least believed, and taken my information, including a STACK of pictures seriously instead of DENYING that their manifold could be out of tolerances. For example: The crossover pipe on my manifold was flat, yet the jig pictures that H&S sent to me shows a very clear curve in the crossover to allow it to clear the "jacking plate" on the underside of the car:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._crossover.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._Crossover.jpg




2) The Distance Selling regs actually state that the consumer can ask for a FULL REFUND, and must recieve this within thirty days, REGARDLESS of whether or not the goods have been returned. H&S is blatanly ignoring the law with respect to selling over the internet.

bigsinky

he checks online or with the courier to make sure he is adequately covered if his £1000 worth of goods goes missing or is damaged in transit.

Pink_Floyd

Point one is redundant now as you've tried to send the item back. As for point two, I'd personally like to see where in the distance selling regs it states you can ask for a full refund without returning? Does this mean you can be fully refunded and not ever return the item? I seriously doubt it.

I strongly believe that whatever you were entitled to is now dead in the water as you went ahead and sent back the goods.

Take a step back from all of this though and answer this; Why did you send it without adequate insurance?

*EDIT* It would appear, at first investigation you are correct on the refund;

3.46: As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case
within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money
even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to
you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received
by you before you make a refund. See also paragraph 3.64.

However I might investigate as to how this affected by custom made items. In addition you've most likely blown these rights by returning the item that's subsequently lost.

blackcountryboy

iTrader: (3)

to be fair i think we can all agree for a £1000 the quality was not there, the thing looked like it had just been thrown together, for a £1000 id want it gold plated!!!!

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps a compromise was to get it repaired to spec in the US and have H & S pay for it? They may have been more willing to accept it was a lemon than to end up paying for the shipping back and forth plus the repair?

I'm curious why this had to be sourced from the UK? Surely the great US of A has a few decent constructors? It must have cost $2500 all in, which must go a long way over there?

I like the way the neg. exhaust review has never made it to the web page, but then I bet its not the only site that "moderates" any feedback.

Definition of faulty for Mr Pendantic. Defective or imperfect. This was imperfect.

Pink_Floyd

I think the problem here is that there are too many 'ifs, buts and maybes' I have scanned through the distance regs for business owners which can be found here;

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/...g-regulations/

From my interpretation of them I have the following observations;

1. The buyer can demand a refund and the goods do not need to be returned before this occurs.

2. The order could be considered a 'custom order' meaning;

3.38 Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel
if the order is for: the supply of goods made to the consumer’s own specification such as custom-made blinds or curtains

This is of course subject to interpretation in this case.

3. The buyer must take reasonable care of the item;

3.60 Consumers have a statutory duty to take reasonable care of the
goods while in their possession

Whilst it appears the seller must collect the goods the above applies to the buyer. I would imagine sending the goods off uninsured breaches this term and condition.

Ultimately a lot depends on the contract set out by Hayward and Scott. All this is now purely academic as the OP has effectively lost the item and whilst they are entitled to a refund, so is the seller entitled to receive goods back at some point.

I honestly don't think you'll get anywhere now with this OP. Whilst you might have a cast-iron case about poor workmanship etc you've completely shot yourself in the foot by sending them back and the company loosing them. You should have sought advice, it took me less than five minutes to download and scan that document. You could have done all this and fought the seller via letter, email and telephone. At the very least you'd still have the item.

Have you considered chasing the courier? Sometimes things do turn up.

white.akita

i agree with dunx,
£1000 for a exhaust manifold for a non turbo ! WHY ????
just stupidity in my eyes.
for £1000 you can now buy a turbo impreza with mot for that.
if you have a classic non turbo impreza you whole car probably isnt worth that much more ! regardless of how much money you have wasted on it.

Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

Who said anything about USA?

Read the thread properly, the guys from Denmark.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Well spotted that man - just keeping you on your toes


The way the story comes over, I naturally assumed he was a Yank full of his consumer rights.

I'd still push the point of getting the system repaired in DENMARK.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

incorrect, lets pee on your bonfire

imperfect: of, pertaining to, or characterized by defects or weaknesses:

incoorrect: not correct as to fact; inaccurate; wrong:

It is not defective, just incorrect, no defects or weaknesses, just inaccurate, ie incorrect size or part

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

There is a bit more info here, and remember the customer has not cancelled, they have received the item and have rejected it to put it in its best context http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/web/c...256B81003BEC0A

Still it looks as though you have to send the item back for a refund.

Tony

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

but this person lives in denmark not in the uk, and they have strange tax laws regarding cars.

we have it easy over here in regards to modding cars.

53

iTrader: (41)

There is also a condition on special order/custom purchases not to mention the difference between cancelled unopened purchases and items for return that have been fitted. Either way it's immaterial as duty of care was not taken or mitigated.

On the positive side at least you didn't order it through Flat Four Online

Setright

A few years ago, I bought a Whiteline front ARB from Camskill. The bar was bent too far in one end, and fouled the power steering pipes. Camskill put me in contact with Whiteline Australia, they asked for a photo and some specific measurements.

Based on that, Whiteline concluded the bar was out of tolerance, and sent me new one.

THE CASE WAS SORTED WITHIN ONE WEEK!!!!

That my dear sceptic readers, is CUSTOMER SERVICE!



H&S twisted this story, and used it against me, claiming that this was proof that my car was somehow wonky.

WHAT A LOAD OF CODSWALLOP! I only told that story to H&S to explain what I considered good customer service.


Whiteline didn't ask for the original bar, and please bear in mind the price of an ARB is much lower, and hence Whiteline's margin for profit much smaller.

911SSC

iTrader: (2)

Hi all

Just relaying our side ...............

We sent manifold out all in good faith as you do, having made the manifold in the same jig that we have made the other ones that have fitted. As you all know it turned out it didn't fit so there is no point in sending another one out as it would have been the same until we have received the first one back checked the jigs to see where the problems are as Mr Heise was going to mark them and along with the pictures we was going to sort it out.

Mr Heise agreed with this and quite innocently we asked him to send it back from his end as i assumed this would be easier than arranging a collection from here having agreed we would refund any shipping costs.

As you all know the parcel went missing . After a few e mails back and forth with Mr Heise Mr Scott agreed to pay him back 50% ( £500 ) which Mr Heise declined , this was offered in good faith although it wasn't our fault the parcel went missing and not insured correctly.

It then went quite for approx 8 months while we now know he was seeking legal advice which has turned out to not be in his favour. We then get a e mail out of the blue saying he will take us up on the offer of 50% refund which Mr Scott declined as at the initial offer it was totally rejected.

Those of you who know us know we bend over back wards to help if there is a problem. We will leave it up to you to decide as this is the one and only response we will be making public and we felt you should have the side of events.

.

Regards

Ian and Gordon

smokingkills

iTrader: (3)

That offer may cause you Data Protection Act issues unless you have written consent from the individual in question to reveal these details to 3rd parties.

ghg

I think you should be giving him the 50% as you offered it before.

why would he take 50% initially as before you should have been giving him the full amount or another exhaust.

distance selling regs state you should have given him a full refund within 30 days, why didnt you do that?

f4la k

iTrader: (1)

911ssc aka h@s, I have also seen a few exhaust made by yourself that were off poor fitment, on the other hand i know alot of satisfied customers. The thing here is you sent a part that did not fit and then you broke all the rules by asking the consumer to send it back, innocently or not, you should have had it picked up yourselfs and being a business you should know the rules.

I for one, and i dont think many others would accept a 50% refund.

This guy took pictures and showed clearly the manifold did'nt fit correctly.

On the otherhand the buyer should of declined sending the item back to you and insisted on you sending a courior for it, but he probably thought that by asking you to do that, that you would think he was being awkward.
Anyway op, your are not going to get your money back now, so i suggest that you just live and learn, and in the future remember and pay the correct insurance for said item...

53

iTrader: (41)

Damn generous offer IMHO ! Take the money or open the box, you opened the box and it was £90 ! lol can't really complain when resolution was afoot and your postal fail prevented a happy outcome.

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

so you spend a grand on a item but only get offered 50% back lol yeah id snap their hand off.

53

iTrader: (41)

It's called compromise both are losing out one for a manifold they'll never receive back and £410 for an inability to post something properly. Seems fair to me