Express: It's the next ice age!
23 December 2010, 05:50 PM
#61
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Dave you seem to be particularly aggravated with my posts. The reason I have not linked to the thousands of papers is because I am at work. You will understand that there are certain restrictions in place when using the internet at work. Secondly it takes time, my lunch break isn't that long - I dont have the JNCC at my finger tips any more.
Those you claim to be warmists / coldists are the uneducated (environmentally) broadsheet readers who feel they have to have an opinion on what ever subject is popular around the dinner table.
As we all know, climate change isn’t about getting hotter or warmer - either could happen depending on many variables. The most popular for colder temps would be the disruption of the golf stream, but I suspect you already know this.
It tends to be the flag waving eco warriors who think we should be adopting the most green of all life styles, saying that certain renewables aren’t suitable because of the initial cost in carbon. We have to be realistic - you need to use which ever technology best suits the situation. We as an Island are lucky enough to be able to harness wind and water based renewables, which basically means we are not putting all our renewable eggs in one fibre woven basket.
Having to use non renewable tech to prop us up when the wind doesn’t blow, is unfortunate, but its something we cannot do without. I agree that its expensive and can be costly to the tax payer, but we would be paying for these anyway, and depending on what was used would be damaging to the environment - hence the need for the 'green' windmills - you are killing to birds with one stone.
I'm sure there are some points I haven’t answered - shoot me a pm and I'll get back to you.
Those you claim to be warmists / coldists are the uneducated (environmentally) broadsheet readers who feel they have to have an opinion on what ever subject is popular around the dinner table.
As we all know, climate change isn’t about getting hotter or warmer - either could happen depending on many variables. The most popular for colder temps would be the disruption of the golf stream, but I suspect you already know this.
It tends to be the flag waving eco warriors who think we should be adopting the most green of all life styles, saying that certain renewables aren’t suitable because of the initial cost in carbon. We have to be realistic - you need to use which ever technology best suits the situation. We as an Island are lucky enough to be able to harness wind and water based renewables, which basically means we are not putting all our renewable eggs in one fibre woven basket.
Having to use non renewable tech to prop us up when the wind doesn’t blow, is unfortunate, but its something we cannot do without. I agree that its expensive and can be costly to the tax payer, but we would be paying for these anyway, and depending on what was used would be damaging to the environment - hence the need for the 'green' windmills - you are killing to birds with one stone.
I'm sure there are some points I haven’t answered - shoot me a pm and I'll get back to you.
Last edited by Richy P1984; 23 December 2010 at 05:52 PM.
23 December 2010, 06:14 PM
#62
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Maybe he's a politician looking for re-election, and thus knows that the largest voting sector is the affluent middle earning tofu sandal wearing eco fairtrade do-good at everyone elses cost as long as we're alright and our property values stay high and we can afford a Porsche as well as the Prius and fly off on 4 eco-holidays a year brigade.
23 December 2010, 06:50 PM
#63
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I'm only 'picking on you' as you seem incredibly dense at accounting! The tax system allows for this as you can make as many overpayments to HMRC as you like. Me? I'll just pay what is owed and not make overpayments just so some bird brained politicians brain-washed by the greenies can scr3w our country up!
Dave
23 December 2010, 07:00 PM
#64
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23 December 2010, 07:50 PM
#65
Saying that conventional powerstations, be it nuclear, coal or gas that will be running constantly, are there to *prop up* renewable power sources is like saying the engine is there to prop up KERS on an F1 car. The reality is that renewable power will always supplement conventional power, but that doesn't sound as "green" and to say otherwise is just political spin.
Rather than spend what potentially could amount to £30bn a year for the next 30 years, couldn't that be used to building more efficient nuclear power station and better nuclear recycling/disposal facilities? Surely that would be more cost effective and provide a more reliable and dependable energy source than wind/tidal/hydro and would secure our country's future energy needs?
Rather than spend what potentially could amount to £30bn a year for the next 30 years, couldn't that be used to building more efficient nuclear power station and better nuclear recycling/disposal facilities? Surely that would be more cost effective and provide a more reliable and dependable energy source than wind/tidal/hydro and would secure our country's future energy needs?
23 December 2010, 08:03 PM
#66
Maybe he's a politician looking for re-election, and thus knows that the largest voting sector is the affluent middle earning tofu sandal wearing eco fairtrade do-good at everyone elses cost as long as we're alright and our property values stay high and we can afford a Porsche as well as the Prius and fly off on 4 eco-holidays a year brigade.
Have an award: the Alcazar award for telling it like it is.
The AAFTILII.
23 December 2010, 09:46 PM
#67
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It's all very simple really. Global Warming/Climate change is BIG business. it's all down to £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££'s and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s
24 December 2010, 12:02 AM
#68
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YES WE CAN. Can you not get it through your dense skull! Why are we going for 'renewables'? To stop AGW, to stop emitting CO2, according to the *warmists*. Why the **** do we then run an alternative plant at 100% all the time AT THE SAME TIME AS RUNNING THE WINDMILLS or whatever renewabl;e flvour of the month is???????? Why the **** should we build TWO of the same thing at the same time???
I'm only 'picking on you' as you seem incredibly dense at accounting! The tax system allows for this as you can make as many overpayments to HMRC as you like. Me? I'll just pay what is owed and not make overpayments just so some bird brained politicians brain-washed by the greenies can scr3w our country up!
Dave
I'm only 'picking on you' as you seem incredibly dense at accounting! The tax system allows for this as you can make as many overpayments to HMRC as you like. Me? I'll just pay what is owed and not make overpayments just so some bird brained politicians brain-washed by the greenies can scr3w our country up!
Dave
I think you need to re-read my post. This was an arguement over global warming. If you want to start a discussion on the need for renewable energy then maybe a new thread will start.
Dense - is when you think coal and gas will never run out, and thinking that putting your head in the sand will solve the problem. Why do you think your electricity and gas bill is rising, its getting harder to find and reach (+ companies want more profit - different thread).
24 December 2010, 12:03 AM
#69
Scooby Regular
24 December 2010, 12:46 AM
#70
DENSE is failing to grasp that even if global warming is accepted as fact, what we choose to do about it (if anything at all), has everything to do with whether it makes better sense to invest tens of billions a year in measures to limit CO2 output, or to put that money aside instead and invest in measures to mitigate against the actual effects of the warming (if and) when they occur.
24 December 2010, 01:45 AM
#71
Scooby Regular
DENSE is failing to grasp that even if global warming is accepted as fact, what we choose to do about it (if anything at all), has everything to do with whether it makes better sense to invest tens of billions a year in measures to limit CO2 output, or to put that money aside instead and invest in measures to mitigate against the actual effects of the warming (if and) when they occur.
The arguement is about global warming, your post although relevant in a wider discussion is not relevant here so kindly stfu and stop making posts just to make yourself look clever.
24 December 2010, 09:15 AM
#72
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... Dense - is when you think coal and gas will never run out, and thinking that putting your head in the sand will solve the problem. Why do you think your electricity and gas bill is rising, its getting harder to find and reach (+ companies want more profit - different thread).
As for electricity bills rising, you STILL have not grasped that this is mainly because of US being made to pay for stupid ides such as windmills/FITs etc All in the name of climate change. Read some of the links you obviously don't bother to. All the information is there.
All this talk about *many people in fuel poverty*. Wonder why there are more people like that? It's because we subsidise the bleddy windmills. Windmills/solar/etc are all uneconomic without subsidies. WE provide the subsidy in our bills. WE are paying for this nonsense. Go and use Xmas to read up on FITs/renewable subsidies and the like and then come back to apologise for trying to spread disinformation .....
Oh look. It's all OK now though. The *warmists* have come up with a reason why we're getting ALL these cold winters even though we're still getting global warming .... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...s-2168418.html ...
"... The computer model used by the scientists also predicted that, as the ice cover continues to be lost, the weather pattern is likely to shift back into a phase of warmer-than-usual winters. Global warming will also continue to warm the Arctic air mass, Professor Rahmstorf said."If you look ahead 40 or 50 years, these cold winters will be getting warmer because, even though you are getting an inflow of cold polar air, that air mass is getting warmer because of the greenhouse effect," he said. "So it's a transient phenomenon. In the long run, global warming wins out." ...."
No, wait, a computer model .....
Merry Xmas!
Dave
24 December 2010, 11:15 AM
#75
I know they'll run out. But noone knows when. As I said we have several hundred years of coal reserves beneath the country. Oil exploration continues and finds are being made all the time.
As for electricity bills rising, you STILL have not grasped that this is mainly because of US being made to pay for stupid ides such as windmills/FITs etc All in the name of climate change. Read some of the links you obviously don't bother to. All the information is there.
All this talk about *many people in fuel poverty*. Wonder why there are more people like that? It's because we subsidise the bleddy windmills. Windmills/solar/etc are all uneconomic without subsidies. WE provide the subsidy in our bills. WE are paying for this nonsense. Go and use Xmas to read up on FITs/renewable subsidies and the like and then come back to apologise for trying to spread disinformation .....
Oh look. It's all OK now though. The *warmists* have come up with a reason why we're getting ALL these cold winters even though we're still getting global warming .... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...s-2168418.html ...
"... The computer model used by the scientists also predicted that, as the ice cover continues to be lost, the weather pattern is likely to shift back into a phase of warmer-than-usual winters. Global warming will also continue to warm the Arctic air mass, Professor Rahmstorf said."If you look ahead 40 or 50 years, these cold winters will be getting warmer because, even though you are getting an inflow of cold polar air, that air mass is getting warmer because of the greenhouse effect," he said. "So it's a transient phenomenon. In the long run, global warming wins out." ...."
No, wait, a computer model .....
Merry Xmas!
Dave
As for electricity bills rising, you STILL have not grasped that this is mainly because of US being made to pay for stupid ides such as windmills/FITs etc All in the name of climate change. Read some of the links you obviously don't bother to. All the information is there.
All this talk about *many people in fuel poverty*. Wonder why there are more people like that? It's because we subsidise the bleddy windmills. Windmills/solar/etc are all uneconomic without subsidies. WE provide the subsidy in our bills. WE are paying for this nonsense. Go and use Xmas to read up on FITs/renewable subsidies and the like and then come back to apologise for trying to spread disinformation .....
Oh look. It's all OK now though. The *warmists* have come up with a reason why we're getting ALL these cold winters even though we're still getting global warming .... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...s-2168418.html ...
"... The computer model used by the scientists also predicted that, as the ice cover continues to be lost, the weather pattern is likely to shift back into a phase of warmer-than-usual winters. Global warming will also continue to warm the Arctic air mass, Professor Rahmstorf said."If you look ahead 40 or 50 years, these cold winters will be getting warmer because, even though you are getting an inflow of cold polar air, that air mass is getting warmer because of the greenhouse effect," he said. "So it's a transient phenomenon. In the long run, global warming wins out." ...."
No, wait, a computer model .....
Merry Xmas!
Dave
Are we to have warmer winters or colder winters, I wish they would make up their frickin' minds. Perhaps they should just junk their computer modelling since can't predict the weather and neither it seem predict "climate". Why do they insist on continuing putting so much effort with trying to prove that global warming/climate change IS solely caused by humans, because warming and cooling has been happening long before humans appeared.
24 December 2010, 11:31 AM
#76
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So what are your views on the University of East Anglia faking their 'Climate Change Study' results?
And even though we and government know this happened, nothing has changed. Slightly odd when the government base a lot of it's decisions on this data!
The earth is around 4.5 billion years old. How the **** can we base decisions that effect millions of people on data only going back 100 years or so.
Not too good with numbers, but that's quite a small percentage!
Wake up, it is all a con and we are bending over and taking it.
And even though we and government know this happened, nothing has changed. Slightly odd when the government base a lot of it's decisions on this data!
The earth is around 4.5 billion years old. How the **** can we base decisions that effect millions of people on data only going back 100 years or so.
Not too good with numbers, but that's quite a small percentage!
Wake up, it is all a con and we are bending over and taking it.
24 December 2010, 04:35 PM
#77
Scooby Regular
What a load of BS, so presumably, the Arctic ice was a lot smaller or non existant in the pre-industrial ages when we had much harsher winters and when the Themes froze over!
Are we to have warmer winters or colder winters, I wish they would make up their frickin' minds. Perhaps they should just junk their computer modelling since can't predict the weather and neither it seem predict "climate". Why do they insist on continuing putting so much effort with trying to prove that global warming/climate change IS solely caused by humans, because warming and cooling has been happening long before humans appeared.
Are we to have warmer winters or colder winters, I wish they would make up their frickin' minds. Perhaps they should just junk their computer modelling since can't predict the weather and neither it seem predict "climate". Why do they insist on continuing putting so much effort with trying to prove that global warming/climate change IS solely caused by humans, because warming and cooling has been happening long before humans appeared.
Dave, I hope you don't drive your Impreza all the time, think of all that CO2 your putting into the atmosphere - you are certainly not helping the long fight we face against the evil AGW body.
Have a good Xmas everyone - including you Dave
p.s. who ever said there was 700 years worth of coal under this country - that was pure comedy gold!
Afternoon everyone, I shall not be posting in here again, as its like trying to hold a discussion with the pope about the big bang.
24 December 2010, 09:09 PM
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