Dynamix
how much do you charge to get a map done? i have no idea if this has been done on my classic facelift already or not, its got a induction kit and front cat back exhaust, just curious for now,
thanks mark

 

My FMIC has been fitted since the 10th December 2006 and hasn't been remapped.

In that time it been used and abused, rolling road days, plenty of drag racing.

All that's when wrong in that time is a blown gearbox and a jammed thermostat. Oh, and a flat battery when it sat under a foot of snow for 2 weeks earlier this month.

All that said, I wouldn't advise someone to do as I have. Just because mine has been fine, doesn't mean another car will.

More so the Newage cars, which have a much more capable ECU than the classics, but, seem to be much more.. tempermental(not really the correct term, it'll do though), when it comes to FMIC's and induction kits.

 

Duncan, when are you back up north

 

When your snow melts mate


Actually I am up there on the 11th Jan for a day and then for a weekend at the beginning of feb.

 

Hi Mark

What model year is yours ?

If it is 97-98 facelift then it will need an aftermarket ecu such as Simtek as your std ecu isnt mappable. Simtek's work out at around £1k supplied, fitted and mapped.

 

Please don't believe everything you read in magazines which rely on advertising for their very existance.

It is unlikely you will fit an FMIC without an induction kit or a change in the induction layout. The whole purpose of changing the induction is to let more air in. More air requires more fuel. If you do not require more fuel you have just wasted your time and money and probably fitted an inefficient system.
If you fit an efficient front mount intercooler you will require more fuel. Just for a start your charge temperatures will be lower so if you don't require any additional fuel, chances are you have fitted a very inefficient FMIC kit.
So there are two reasons you are likely to need more fuel or put another way, why your engine is likely to run weak with a change to efficient induction and FMIC.
Please read carefully what NS04 says @ post #23.

Matrix: Sorry Matrix but you do not appear to understand the workings of the OE ECU with MAF. The 02 sensor only operates in closed loop off boost and cannot work at full load where it is important to ensure the AFR is not on the weak side.

The effect of WOT and weak AFR is picking up a piston in the bore and over £1000 of expenditure to rectify.

What you have also failed to understand is that the addition of an efficient FMIC can end up with the engine operating outwith previously mapped areas so goodness knows what might happen there. On the factory ECU presumably very rich.

What I have seen some people do is increase fuel pressure to keep the engine safe, in their eyes, until they can afford a remap or an aftermarket ECU. Having lost count of the number of intercooler kits we have fitted and mapping sessions done I assure you that if you fit an efficient induction and intercooler kit without a remap there is a high probability it will end in tears as it has done for many people that have ignored this advice.
Added to that the whole purpose of improving your induction and intercooling is surely to gain more power and that won't happen without a remap.



I have given this example several times before but it may help again. My STi 3 Wagon with STi 8 top mount on the rollers with Steve Simpson. We obtained 392 bhp with ACTs in the 40s. A Hybrid GT FMIC was fitted, no change in the existing inlet system and the car returned to the rolling road. We globally added a small percentage of fuel to keep the engine safe and it ran to 401 bhp straight away. Adjustments were then made across the map and we achieved a 410 bhp for the addition of the Hybrid GT and remap.

Fit an efficient inlet tract and FMIC without a remap if you wish but you are simply getting away with it and NOT getting the best from your car. If you do get away with it perhaps you should consider the efficiency of the system you have.

 

I was patiently waiting for harvey to come on this thread, complete with his famous, helpful and illustrative FMIC + no remap/with remap evidence.

No more further comments needed IMO.


OP, just heed harvey's advice...

 

Oh btw, merry Xmas...

 

Just wondering if tweaking a map is within the scope of a competant DIY'er having a wideband lambda and gauge and det cans

 

Thanks for that Joz. Happy Christmas to you and I wish everyone a Happy Christmas and healthy, happy 2011.
It matters not to me if people think they can get away without a remap, some certainly will/do but for others it has been catastrophic and often ended their Subaru love affair.

Justin: Hi. Happy Christmas.
I do my own mapping but that is always followed by further mapping on the rollers from Steve Simpson or Pat Herborn or road mapping from Bob Rawle and when the road mapping is finished the smoothness that Bob brings to the map is like a revelation. With Bob's expertise he can find smoothness, response, spool and top end that totally ellude me even although I have considerable mapping experience both hands on and as an observer of other mappers on numerous vehicles, not just my own.
To answer your question directly I think the best an amateur mapper even with my experience could expect to achieve would be a safe map and there would be a lot of performance still to find. The consequence of making a mistake is such that it could all end in tears. You then need access to your ECU. On Ecutek that is not possible and on Simtek for instance you need a dongle plus your own laptop and Simtek software in addition to wideband Lambda that has to be reliable, an accurate boost guage and det monitoring equipment so that adds up to a tidy sum.
For best results I will leave it to a few chosen professionals but Bob does the best part of anything I am involved in.

 

Harvey Merry Christmas mate

Mapping really intrests me but i guess the mappers will be keeping their trade secrets to themselves as would any pro
I may purchse some gear just out of intrest and hobby purposes, Bosch wideband lamda is only about £40 but the gauge costs a fair bit, i guess soon lambda det cans will be connected to a computer and allow the computer to develop the best efficent safe map

 

I had this very conversation with Harvey and splitpin a few months ago.... I was convinced it wouldn't need a map but I am now converted, there is a post that goes in to a massive amount of detail main posters are myself, splitpin and Harvey.

Those two are VERY knowledgable and what they say should most certainly be seriously considered and adhered to!

I most certainly wouldn't run a FMIC and induction kit on a STD ECU map.... no way!

 

Justin: I don't know how good your hearing is or how much you would want to trust det cans and a mashed bit of copper pipe or whether you would want to go to a Phormula Knock Analyser Pro which can give visual and audible feedback but by the time you have gone to knock detection, wideband Lambda, dongle and software assuming you have a suitable laptop I guess you have just spent something over £600.
If you are a computer nerd or into IT I don't suppose it will be much of a challenge for you to familiarise yourself with the base maps. I think you have an Ecutek so you cannot access that so you are stuffed before you start but if you invested in a Simtek, around another £1,000 there are a few maps to be looking at. Fuel, ignition and boost to start with. Now the first thing you could do is download your existing map and save it so you can always return to your existing map but unless there was something wrong with the map you already had because it had not been done properly in the first place or you had made some alterations I am not sure why you would want to be making any changes anyway.
All in all, it could turn out to be a very expensive hobby. For cheapness you could go down the Apexi route with a hand held commander and the software from New Zealand which would be cheaper but that would be a step backwards from your existing Ecutek and a big step backwards from the potential of a Simtek.
From time to time I see people posting that they are on a mapping course. I don't have any knowledge of these in the UK but that might be the most cost effective way to look in to the possibilities for yourself and decide whether you really want to and can afford to start playing with your own map.

 

hi buddy sorry forgot to add the year its a 99 year model, facelift classic,

 

With the restyled front bumper and coilpack on the passenger side of the IM?

If so, the std ECU is mappable by EcuTeK... Which dynmaix can sort for yer...

 

Don't think Duncan uses EcuTek.

 

Oh really? Didn't realise, sorry.

He's an OS kinda guy, right?

 

with the new style bumper i think but i think the coil pack is on the centre of the IM

sods law that every car i get needs a stupidly expensive ECU, think i will just get an airbox and put it back on, the last thing i want is a screwed engine

 

If that's the case then you either have a MY97/98 with a MY99/00 bumper fitted.... Or a MY99/00 with a MY97/98 engine! (or at least a MY97/98 I.M./ign. system lol )

 

Ive got no idea its defiantly a 99 V reg car, i know a new engine was fitted to it 11k ago, what is the best way to find out, would a pic posted on here help?
thanks matey

 

It's okay - you DO have a MY99. The coilpack IS on the passenger side of the IM!

Although being a V-reg., and if DVLA have issued the correct letter, then it's odds on you have a MY00 - as V reg is Aug 99 - Feb 00 (MY00 is Sep 99 - Aug 00). But the engines are effectively the same for MY99 and MY00, so it's only a detailed point.


If you were to see a MY97/98's coilpack position/shape of IM's branches, you'd realise the difference. Their coilpacks, literally, are slap bang in the centre (and not offset like your MY99/00 engine's).

 

Every day is a school day, thank you for your help and sorry for being such a massive biff,
best regards, mark

 

why is scooby mapping still such a 'black art'?

....over in the evo community every man and his dog seems to be mapping evos quite cheap and easily since open software become available

(although admittedly the traders are not liking it and tend to diss it as they're losing out on a lot of business)........wonder if scoobs will end up this way?

 

Whoa, don't be that hard on yourself. It's a steep learning curve re. these cars. Nothing to be embarrassed about or anything.

That's what tech forums are for - help.

 

As i posted up a couple of weeks ago.....Type RA with fmic, induction kit, TD05 converted to FE, 380cc injectors, parallel fuel lines, HKS FCD, walbro pump, makes 1.3bar all controlled by a PP chip...no custom mapping...made 324bhp on the rollers 4 weeks ago...5 trackdays last year in its current spec and the only problem was it destroyed a clutch...

Oh and the cars for sale for cheapish money...

 

Why is black art? EcuTek making money from people,which still think EcuTek is way to forward(on NewAge) and i with this disagree...
EcuTek now releasing RaceRom and RR features like Boost at gear are few months largely available on Open Source,AntiLag is now supported by RomRaider via Group N ROM,EcuEdit,Speed Density Tuning and other stuff which will be maybe available on EcuTek RaceRom,but EcuTek this RaceRom get out maybe at next year(some tuners all ready have these promo tools all ready for testing,but i think will be available maybe later due EcuTek rather working on locking tools for ECU like on features),EcuTek fan club will may disagree,but Open Source is largely available for free(EcuEdit is not free),you don't need licence or you need just right tools/right mapper...

And when will end this way on Subaru?Look at US where guys with EcuTek are just in back,at front are guys with "custom" Open Source maps or COBB tuning or new UTEC,maybe this will be same here but this will need more time.



Jura

 

They should be rubbing their hands together; lots more blown engines for them to fix or saying My car aint running right since I fiddled with it lol

Having the software is one thing; having the technical knowledge and skill to use it is quite another!

If people get it wrong, it's an expensive lesson!!

 

If you are get car mapped to not competent mapper/or Cowboy,this will happen,here are good open source mappers which have good reputation,these guys making not just Remap,but tuning from Engines and ended with Service.

I

 

In English?

Not a black art. Be aware of the costs involved in having all the necessary equipment and start on your own car. However, from a start you will not have the knowledge to get the best out of your car. I have noticed that even with recognised mappers, some are better with a particular ECU and tuning package than on other ECUs or completely different modifications.
With no prior knowledge, even if you fully understand the workings of a petrol engine and the ECU you are working with I think you are on a mega voyage of discovery. Unfotunately a slight oversight can lead to expensive disaster. Three or four mappers have told me that there is rarely a week goes by when they have not added to their knowledge.