Hawkeye STI - Type UK?
13 January 2011, 06:01 PM
#91
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Its only UK owners that will say that, any owner of a twin scroll car will tell you there is no codswallop, ive seen more than enough 2ltr twin scroll cars push virtually the same torque on the standard turbo v standard turbo, and thats with half a litre less 
The twin scroll is the nicer engine, best of both worlds and mine pulls from around 17-1800rpm 
Tony
The twin scroll is the nicer engine, best of both worlds
and mine pulls from around 17-1800rpm Tony
All that said, I still think the JDM car is a better car, just for the fact that it comes with so much more equipment as standard, the problem is I personally wouldn't have one as a daily driver due to the gear ratios, been there & done that, drove me nuts!
13 January 2011, 06:15 PM
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Nothing wrong with the gear ratio's, my type R has lower gear ratio's than the Spec C, quite happily does 3k at 70mph, very nice, leaves me 5k of rev range left
Dunno about missing the low down grunt, mine has plenty of that hence why I can drive round town in 5th gear at 25mph
Tony
Dunno about missing the low down grunt, mine has plenty of that
hence why I can drive round town in 5th gear at 25mph Tony
13 January 2011, 06:22 PM
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Agreed...........absolutely nothing wrong with the gear ratio's....and as for 'low down grunt'.......please come for a drive in my car and I will demonstrate severe low down grunt, instantaneous power in any gear, even at very low revs.
Greg
PS: I have owned both Type UK and JDM STi's so all my comments are based on experience!
Greg
PS: I have owned both Type UK and JDM STi's so all my comments are based on experience!
13 January 2011, 08:01 PM
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Its only UK owners that will say that, any owner of a twin scroll car will tell you there is no codswallop, ive seen more than enough 2ltr twin scroll cars push virtually the same torque on the standard turbo v standard turbo, and thats with half a litre less
The twin scroll is the nicer engine, best of both worlds and mine pulls from around 17-1800rpm
Tony
The twin scroll is the nicer engine, best of both worlds
and mine pulls from around 17-1800rpm Tony
Do you find it difficult to get parts from main stealers? I take it none of them have a service history? JDMs seem like hen's teeth!
13 January 2011, 08:04 PM
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Agreed...........absolutely nothing wrong with the gear ratio's....and as for 'low down grunt'.......please come for a drive in my car and I will demonstrate severe low down grunt, instantaneous power in any gear, even at very low revs.
Greg
PS: I have owned both Type UK and JDM STi's so all my comments are based on experience!
Greg
PS: I have owned both Type UK and JDM STi's so all my comments are based on experience!
Wish you were nearer - I'd love a shot! You can try out my old bug if you like!
13 January 2011, 08:40 PM
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as they dont even hold the basics in stock, easier to get it direct from japan or import car parts, atleast they hold stock.Tony
13 January 2011, 10:35 PM
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13 January 2011, 10:48 PM
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Well, it was that or a 2.8i Capri that warmed my cockles as a lad!
14 January 2011, 03:56 PM
#103
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Thought i give my 2 cents worth.
Before i start, let me set the record straight, everything is based on what i feel and yes, I've owned a 2.5L hatch STI and a hawkeye Spec C and have driven a hawkeye STI uk on a regular basis. All in stock condition, so i can't really comment on how well they respond to upgrades.
First, lets look at their gear ratios
JDM 3.636, 2.375, 1.761, 1.346, 1.062, 0.842 FD - 3.900
UK 3.636, 2.235, 1.521, 1.137, 0.891, 0.707 FD - 3.900
From 3rd gear onwards, the JDM ratios are very much shorter (JDM 6th is almost as short as UK 5th) I believe part of this low end pull-ability from the JDM cars are due to the short ratios. As far as i can tell, where all things constant, in 1st gear where the ratios are identical, i definitely feel that the 2.5 spools up a alittle quicker than the JDM. Though i have to say, from then on to the redline, it's quite a different story.
So probably a more accurate comparison on a 2.5 single scroll vs a 2.0 twin scroll engine would be to use the JDM 6th against the UK 5th? Which i believe will not be much between them.
which is still mighty impressive if you ask me, considering the 0.5L deficit.
My point is although the UK 2.5 is inferior in some aspects, it claws back in appeal in the way it requires fewer revs to get them going and with bags of torque on tap. A well remapped 2.5 would make a very quick road car i believe.
Having said that, i still won't trade my 2.0 for a 2.5 as it i prefer the top end scream and pull of the 2.0L, It feels like a pukka race engine too and best of all, it's JDM
Before i start, let me set the record straight, everything is based on what i feel and yes, I've owned a 2.5L hatch STI and a hawkeye Spec C and have driven a hawkeye STI uk on a regular basis. All in stock condition, so i can't really comment on how well they respond to upgrades.
First, lets look at their gear ratios
JDM 3.636, 2.375, 1.761, 1.346, 1.062, 0.842 FD - 3.900
UK 3.636, 2.235, 1.521, 1.137, 0.891, 0.707 FD - 3.900
From 3rd gear onwards, the JDM ratios are very much shorter (JDM 6th is almost as short as UK 5th) I believe part of this low end pull-ability from the JDM cars are due to the short ratios. As far as i can tell, where all things constant, in 1st gear where the ratios are identical, i definitely feel that the 2.5 spools up a alittle quicker than the JDM. Though i have to say, from then on to the redline, it's quite a different story.
So probably a more accurate comparison on a 2.5 single scroll vs a 2.0 twin scroll engine would be to use the JDM 6th against the UK 5th? Which i believe will not be much between them.
which is still mighty impressive if you ask me, considering the 0.5L deficit.My point is although the UK 2.5 is inferior in some aspects, it claws back in appeal in the way it requires fewer revs to get them going and with bags of torque on tap. A well remapped 2.5 would make a very quick road car i believe.
Having said that, i still won't trade my 2.0 for a 2.5 as it i prefer the top end scream and pull of the 2.0L, It feels like a pukka race engine too and best of all, it's JDM
14 January 2011, 05:10 PM
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Suberman, yes the ratio's are different, then also think the ammout of rev range you have is also different so the first 4 gears are very very similar, its the 5th and 6th (which ratio's about 12mph lower at the red line on the JDM over a UK car) so your not losing as much as you think
Plus its also where the power comes in, so the ratio's are only for the drivability, and considering that subaru japan even say that the JDM's pull 80% of their torque at 2.5k rpm.... still pretty impressive and your flying by then if you start 1k lower on the rev range
Tony
Plus its also where the power comes in, so the ratio's are only for the drivability, and considering that subaru japan even say that the JDM's pull 80% of their torque at 2.5k rpm.... still pretty impressive and your flying by then if you start 1k lower on the rev range
Tony
14 January 2011, 08:37 PM
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Thought i give my 2 cents worth.
Before i start, let me set the record straight, everything is based on what i feel and yes, I've owned a 2.5L hatch STI and a hawkeye Spec C and have driven a hawkeye STI uk on a regular basis. All in stock condition, so i can't really comment on how well they respond to upgrades.
First, lets look at their gear ratios
JDM 3.636, 2.375, 1.761, 1.346, 1.062, 0.842 FD - 3.900
UK 3.636, 2.235, 1.521, 1.137, 0.891, 0.707 FD - 3.900
From 3rd gear onwards, the JDM ratios are very much shorter (JDM 6th is almost as short as UK 5th) I believe part of this low end pull-ability from the JDM cars are due to the short ratios. As far as i can tell, where all things constant, in 1st gear where the ratios are identical, i definitely feel that the 2.5 spools up a alittle quicker than the JDM. Though i have to say, from then on to the redline, it's quite a different story.
So probably a more accurate comparison on a 2.5 single scroll vs a 2.0 twin scroll engine would be to use the JDM 6th against the UK 5th? Which i believe will not be much between them. which is still mighty impressive if you ask me, considering the 0.5L deficit.
My point is although the UK 2.5 is inferior in some aspects, it claws back in appeal in the way it requires fewer revs to get them going and with bags of torque on tap. A well remapped 2.5 would make a very quick road car i believe.
Having said that, i still won't trade my 2.0 for a 2.5 as it i prefer the top end scream and pull of the 2.0L, It feels like a pukka race engine too and best of all, it's JDM
Before i start, let me set the record straight, everything is based on what i feel and yes, I've owned a 2.5L hatch STI and a hawkeye Spec C and have driven a hawkeye STI uk on a regular basis. All in stock condition, so i can't really comment on how well they respond to upgrades.
First, lets look at their gear ratios
JDM 3.636, 2.375, 1.761, 1.346, 1.062, 0.842 FD - 3.900
UK 3.636, 2.235, 1.521, 1.137, 0.891, 0.707 FD - 3.900
From 3rd gear onwards, the JDM ratios are very much shorter (JDM 6th is almost as short as UK 5th) I believe part of this low end pull-ability from the JDM cars are due to the short ratios. As far as i can tell, where all things constant, in 1st gear where the ratios are identical, i definitely feel that the 2.5 spools up a alittle quicker than the JDM. Though i have to say, from then on to the redline, it's quite a different story.
So probably a more accurate comparison on a 2.5 single scroll vs a 2.0 twin scroll engine would be to use the JDM 6th against the UK 5th? Which i believe will not be much between them.
which is still mighty impressive if you ask me, considering the 0.5L deficit.My point is although the UK 2.5 is inferior in some aspects, it claws back in appeal in the way it requires fewer revs to get them going and with bags of torque on tap. A well remapped 2.5 would make a very quick road car i believe.
Having said that, i still won't trade my 2.0 for a 2.5 as it i prefer the top end scream and pull of the 2.0L, It feels like a pukka race engine too and best of all, it's JDM
Do you miss the burble? Tony mentioned parts - are there a couple of specialists in the Uk that can supply any part, or could you be left waiting weeks for a part while your car was off the road (say after an accident). Still not sure which dealers sell them. Do they cost more than a UK STi?
Sounds like if you Milltek & remap both you'll end up with similar cars but for the JDM's higher rev range and lack of burble (apart from the wiper etc). My concern would be getting parts and, yes, I'll be honest, I would miss that burble! Both great as all say (well, apart from Tony - eh Tony?
)Andy the genuinely interested Scooby fan!
14 January 2011, 09:01 PM
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To be honest Andy i don't think they're similar cars at all imho, standard or simple exhaust/remap type power. While i've never had a 2.5l, i had a 2.0l 05 type uk, and although it wouldn't have the big torque number that the 2.5l lump can produce, the difference between it and my spec c is considerable in my opinion. Admittedly the spec c is a different beast again, but it would maul my old car and i never thought it was slow. The jdm feels like it constantly wants to race, so eager to rev, and you can't help but let it, nevermind the other jdm parts like the quick ratio rack etc. It feels really sharp to drive, and pretty aggressive i think.
You would need to drive both as always, i agree on the burble, it is a big part of a subaru, but i don't really miss it at all.
I almost used to take offence when people use to harp on about JDM cars and all their "advantages" when i owned my uk car. Now i see what all the fuss is about.
They're all great cars though.
You would need to drive both as always, i agree on the burble, it is a big part of a subaru, but i don't really miss it at all.
I almost used to take offence when people use to harp on about JDM cars and all their "advantages" when i owned my uk car. Now i see what all the fuss is about.
They're all great cars though.
15 January 2011, 02:26 PM
#107
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Good insightful post. Cheers.
Do you miss the burble? Tony mentioned parts - are there a couple of specialists in the Uk that can supply any part, or could you be left waiting weeks for a part while your car was off the road (say after an accident). Still not sure which dealers sell them. Do they cost more than a UK STi?
Sounds like if you Milltek & remap both you'll end up with similar cars but for the JDM's higher rev range and lack of burble (apart from the wiper etc). My concern would be getting parts and, yes, I'll be honest, I would miss that burble! Both great as all say (well, apart from Tony - eh Tony?)
Andy the genuinely interested Scooby fan!
Do you miss the burble? Tony mentioned parts - are there a couple of specialists in the Uk that can supply any part, or could you be left waiting weeks for a part while your car was off the road (say after an accident). Still not sure which dealers sell them. Do they cost more than a UK STi?
Sounds like if you Milltek & remap both you'll end up with similar cars but for the JDM's higher rev range and lack of burble (apart from the wiper etc). My concern would be getting parts and, yes, I'll be honest, I would miss that burble! Both great as all say (well, apart from Tony - eh Tony?
)Andy the genuinely interested Scooby fan!
. But over the years, it seems to have gotten abit too common IMO. Everytime i see a scooby belting pass, it's almost certain that the soundtrack that accompanies is that all too farmiliar scooby burble. Too much of a good thing isn't always good eh?So, no i don't miss it Andy. At least for now.
For me the high pitched scream sounds more racy, more special. More like a race car if you ask me. Have you guys heard an RA-R or S204 flyby at full chat? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxSA-iGarYM - RA-R flyby 0:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RaYHH_1Uo - S204 flyby 1:16
That muffler sounds very nice IMO. It's not overly loud, but sounds great when you giving it some.
I'm sure specialist like Litchfield or RCM could supply any JDM parts you need, although i think you may need to wait?
Most of the body parts are shared with the UK model unless you are talking a Spec C. So i'd assume it wouldn't be much trouble sourcing for parts for a JDM STI?Errol
15 January 2011, 02:49 PM
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The scooby burble. Without a doubt a great noise, something we can all relate to. And best of all, it reminds us of where these cars originated from - Group A rally . But over the years, it seems to have gotten abit too common IMO. Everytime i see a scooby belting pass, it's almost certain that the soundtrack that accompanies is that all too farmiliar scooby burble. Too much of a good thing isn't always good eh?
So, no i don't miss it Andy. At least for now. For me the high pitched scream sounds more racy, more special. More like a race car if you ask me. Have you guys heard an RA-R or S204 flyby at full chat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxSA-iGarYM - RA-R flyby 0:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RaYHH_1Uo - S204 flyby 1:16
That muffler sounds very nice IMO. It's not overly loud, but sounds great when you giving it some.
I'm sure specialist like Litchfield or RCM could supply any JDM parts you need, although i think you may need to wait? Most of the body parts are shared with the UK model unless you are talking a Spec C. So i'd assume it wouldn't be much trouble sourcing for parts for a JDM STI?
Errol
. But over the years, it seems to have gotten abit too common IMO. Everytime i see a scooby belting pass, it's almost certain that the soundtrack that accompanies is that all too farmiliar scooby burble. Too much of a good thing isn't always good eh?So, no i don't miss it Andy. At least for now.
For me the high pitched scream sounds more racy, more special. More like a race car if you ask me. Have you guys heard an RA-R or S204 flyby at full chat? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxSA-iGarYM - RA-R flyby 0:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RaYHH_1Uo - S204 flyby 1:16
That muffler sounds very nice IMO. It's not overly loud, but sounds great when you giving it some.
I'm sure specialist like Litchfield or RCM could supply any JDM parts you need, although i think you may need to wait?
Most of the body parts are shared with the UK model unless you are talking a Spec C. So i'd assume it wouldn't be much trouble sourcing for parts for a JDM STI?Errol
I liked the sound of my old 2.2 VTec Prelude for the same reason. Still think the UK STi will sound better at idle and low speeds and to be honest I do have to do a fair bit of town driving. Do you reckon there's any difference between the exhaust note on an Evo and a JDM STi ( have driven Evo 8)?
Lack of availability seems an issue too. I rarely see any for sale (ie looking for a Hawk). Are the JDMs more expensive? Could a Hawk JDM be sourced from a dealer for £12 to £13k? Maybe tony will know the answer to these questions as he appers to be Scobbynets Newage JDM expert.
15 January 2011, 02:51 PM
#109
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To be honest Andy i don't think they're similar cars at all imho, standard or simple exhaust/remap type power. While i've never had a 2.5l, i had a 2.0l 05 type uk, and although it wouldn't have the big torque number that the 2.5l lump can produce, the difference between it and my spec c is considerable in my opinion. Admittedly the spec c is a different beast again, but it would maul my old car and i never thought it was slow. The jdm feels like it constantly wants to race, so eager to rev, and you can't help but let it, nevermind the other jdm parts like the quick ratio rack etc. It feels really sharp to drive, and pretty aggressive i think.
You would need to drive both as always, i agree on the burble, it is a big part of a subaru, but i don't really miss it at all.
I almost used to take offence when people use to harp on about JDM cars and all their "advantages" when i owned my uk car. Now i see what all the fuss is about.
They're all great cars though.
You would need to drive both as always, i agree on the burble, it is a big part of a subaru, but i don't really miss it at all.
I almost used to take offence when people use to harp on about JDM cars and all their "advantages" when i owned my uk car. Now i see what all the fuss is about.
They're all great cars though.
The 2.5L drives quite differently to the 2.0L STI UK. It has a full 51Nm of torque more and it feels it. The powerband is also fuller from way down low.
By the way, i think Andy was referring to the 2.5L STI UK as a comparison to the JDM 2.0L
15 January 2011, 03:15 PM
#112
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I like it on full chat certainly. Cheers for the links.
I liked the sound of my old 2.2 VTec Prelude for the same reason. Still think the UK STi will sound better at idle and low speeds and to be honest I do have to do a fair bit of town driving. Do you reckon there's any difference between the exhaust note on an Evo and a JDM STi ( have driven Evo 8)?
I liked the sound of my old 2.2 VTec Prelude for the same reason. Still think the UK STi will sound better at idle and low speeds and to be honest I do have to do a fair bit of town driving. Do you reckon there's any difference between the exhaust note on an Evo and a JDM STi ( have driven Evo 8)?
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Evos, in fact in think they are quite brilliant cars, but the same can't be said for their exhaust notes.
15 January 2011, 03:25 PM
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You are welcome Andy. To be honest, I've never thought that Evos sounded good. Even with aftermarket exhausts, i've yet heard something that got me "Wow!" I'm not sure why, but i think they sound abit clinical. I'm not sure if you'll understand what i mean, but you are left wondering if you've just heard the engine roar, or the exhaust? the turbo whoosh? Or a combination of everything. Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Evos, in fact in think they are quite brilliant cars, but the same can't be said for their exhaust notes.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Evos, in fact in think they are quite brilliant cars, but the same can't be said for their exhaust notes.Anyway, let's keep this a Newage Sti thread!
