Judaism
20 January 2011, 12:06 AM
#182
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Hello James, 
I didn't mean that they had no religion, to be honest I don't know that, only they do.
If I were to speculate however, I am sure they feel that there is a religious justification for what they are doing, but I honestly think, the political power they crave is a far stronger draw.
What 'religion' they might have, guides some of their everyday actions, such as what they eat, how they might dress and so on. Hardcore Zionists are essentially extreme nationalists IMO and act accordingly.
Asif
I didn't mean that they had no religion, to be honest I don't know that, only they do.
If I were to speculate however, I am sure they feel that there is a religious justification for what they are doing, but I honestly think, the political power they crave is a far stronger draw.
What 'religion' they might have, guides some of their everyday actions, such as what they eat, how they might dress and so on. Hardcore Zionists are essentially extreme nationalists IMO and act accordingly.
Asif
There are lots of nationalists in this world.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 20 January 2011 at 12:09 AM.
20 January 2011, 12:08 AM
#183
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20 January 2011, 12:13 AM
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20 January 2011, 12:14 AM
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20 January 2011, 12:17 AM
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20 January 2011, 12:29 AM
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20 January 2011, 12:31 AM
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Are the Israeli leadership driven by Earthly lust? Biblical mandates? Racial loyalty? An amalgam of each? It strikes me as being near impossible to evaluate.
20 January 2011, 12:39 AM
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20 January 2011, 12:50 AM
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You've referenced both witnessing and jingoism here, perhaps deliberately. As I stated earlier Jewry offers up faith and race on the same plate. When set 'against' incomparable opponents it makes righteous assessment complex.
Are the Israeli leadership driven by Earthly lust? Biblical mandates? Racial loyalty? An amalgam of each? It strikes me as being near impossible to evaluate.
Are the Israeli leadership driven by Earthly lust? Biblical mandates? Racial loyalty? An amalgam of each? It strikes me as being near impossible to evaluate.
So long as it does not preach supremacy, domination etc...taking others freedoms away etc then you can't oppose it from any reasonable POV.
20 January 2011, 12:56 AM
#195
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Please, chaps. It seems so petty. I've read enough of your posts over the past half decade to know that you have enough natural ability not to have resort to this. Tony, to his credit, does not engage in this. Refute the man's points, otherwise it becomes about ego and lacks substance.
If you feel I conduct myself in an unacceptable fashion with everyone here, you would have a point.
Someone who enjoys looking down his nose at others and conducts himself in the manner that your friend does, does himself no favours and gets off lightly IMO.
If you will address your friends conduct too then feel free to address mine also. But as you won't I see no reason to not continue as I see fit.
20 January 2011, 01:14 AM
#196
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We can have 30 pages of this spirited banter, but it won't make a difference. Demographics will bring an end to the entity called Israel and the land will be reclaimed by the original inhabitants of the Levant, from the Eastern European transplants.
20 January 2011, 01:15 AM
#197
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James, by reading enough of my posts in that time you know very well how I conduct myself. I don't need to explain myself, especially to you, re your friend. He has no 'points' to refute.
If you feel I conduct myself in an unacceptable fashion with everyone here, you would have a point.
Someone who enjoys looking down his nose at others and conducts himself in the manner that your friend does, does himself no favours and gets off lightly IMO.
If you will address your friends conduct too then feel free to address mine also. But as you won't I see no reason to not continue as I see fit.
If you feel I conduct myself in an unacceptable fashion with everyone here, you would have a point.
Someone who enjoys looking down his nose at others and conducts himself in the manner that your friend does, does himself no favours and gets off lightly IMO.
If you will address your friends conduct too then feel free to address mine also. But as you won't I see no reason to not continue as I see fit.
20 January 2011, 01:38 AM
#198
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These discussions are about principle, passion, history, theology and politics. Whilst I understand that Tony doesn't give way and that this gets on peoples' ****, it does the other side of the room no favours by resorting to ad homs. It's not my place to to judge, I know that, but your argument is, in my view, strong enough not to have to resort to insults. Tony is on the the thick end of a disproportionate amount of flack but always attacks the position and not the man. In my view that's worthy.
20 January 2011, 09:50 AM
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The Lavon Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
20 January 2011, 12:25 PM
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I love tonys complete disregard for fact and reality. Tony you state that the Palestinians left and never came back, you don't mention being forced out by war and terrorism from Jewish groups who wanted them out. You then say that they never came back, you did not mention that they were not allowed to some back, if Israel let people come back to the land they hd stolen from them at some point they may get to vote and then the **** hits the fan. You critisize Arab terrorism but not Israeli government supported terrorism which has also targeted British citizens. It seems obvious that no land was ever going back to the palestinians if it was was why are more settlements continuing to be built in Arab land ? As a side point Turkey had every right to invade cyprus after the military coup de etat started the war to turn cyprus Greek.
20 January 2011, 06:40 PM
#205
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I love tonys complete disregard for fact and reality. Tony you state that the Palestinians left and never came back, you don't mention being forced out by war and terrorism from Jewish groups who wanted them out. You then say that they never came back, you did not mention that they were not allowed to some back, if Israel let people come back to the land they hd stolen from them at some point they may get to vote and then the **** hits the fan. You critisize Arab terrorism but not Israeli government supported terrorism which has also targeted British citizens. It seems obvious that no land was ever going back to the palestinians if it was was why are more settlements continuing to be built in Arab land ? As a side point Turkey had every right to invade cyprus after the military coup de etat started the war to turn cyprus Greek.
Arabs that stayed within the borders of Israeli got citizenship.
The Palestinians never owned the land as a nation state. There is a difference between owning the land as a nation and private ownership. As to the Palestinians who lost private land when they left - expecting an Arab victory - they should have stayed and looked after their property.
Why hasn't Turkey left now then? Greece isn't run by the military anymore.
20 January 2011, 07:26 PM
#206
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The arabs that were not scared off by terrorist attacks and the massacre of women and children by Israeli military were given land, thats nice. Would you have kept your family there in constant fear of them being killed in cold blood ?
As for Cyprus the Turkish part of the Island agreed to the EU proposals to rejoin cyprus as one. The Greek half rejected it posisbly becuase they don't want to return all the Turkish owned property they stole.
As for Cyprus the Turkish part of the Island agreed to the EU proposals to rejoin cyprus as one. The Greek half rejected it posisbly becuase they don't want to return all the Turkish owned property they stole.
20 January 2011, 07:45 PM
#209
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Jewish people were driven out of large parts of the Islamic world by pogroms in the 1940's, it's hardly surprising they formed militias in Palestine to secure themselves. Yes I acknowledge there were atrocities on both side - and that includes masacres of Jewish people, but as I understand it the Jewish state did not by default confiscate private land owned by Arabs unless absent. Do you know otherwise? You are the one saying they 'stole' land.
Turkey ethnically cleansed it's half. Before the invasion Cyprus was minority Turkey. How do you square that with your support of the Palestinians?
Military intervention (like Iraq).
Re-settlement and ethnic bias (like Israel (allegedly))