f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

But you started posting them before you knew of me..... are you clairvoyant too?

Luan Pra bang

Once again facts escape you the two arab pogroms took place many years after the formation of the zionist terrorist groups but you knew that already didn't you ?

You seem to think that stealing land for refugees is OK by that logic stealing things from Jewish refugees after ww2 was an acceptable thing to do ?

Turkey never had half of cyprus and still does not and the Greek side comitted more than their fair share of crimes but ultimately the drama was started by greek nationalism that refused to aknowledge the rights of turkish cypriots.

tony de wonderful

I think the refugees should not have left and should have secured their property. I don't know the state of Ottoman private property records but in the transition to a new Israeli administration it's hard to expect your property to remain in your name if you leave.

Does Hamas acknowledge Jewish rights in Israel?

hodgy0_2

classic ploy of the oppressor -- blame the victims, used throughout history to justify mass murder, and used by you throughout this thread

tony de wonderful

Most left w/out seeing an Israeli soldier. It's hard to say they were forced out.

AsifScoob

Sorry James, but that is nonsense. Your friend attacked me personally, that is the end of it. I don't consider that I have insulted him recently to be honest. If I have it is far less than he deserves.

No one is forcing him to say what he does, he chooses to get on everyones ****, as you say. His defensiveness about certain things, such as his own background, give him away, especially when he attacks the background of others as a basis of an arguement.

In fact, I don't even know what your post is on about! Your self confessed double standard, on another thread, when it comes to your friend means that your arguments defending him are meaningless.

Asif

AsifScoob

I don't know. Is that the bit Samuel L Jackson paraphrases in 'Pulp Fiction'? Sounds good.

tony de wonderful

I think I called you silly once or something? I was wrong to do so I admit.

That is a lie.

Bubba po

No, that's 25:17, I think.

AsifScoob

Tony, if you make me regret this post to you, I will resort to simply insulting you at every opportunity...

You attacked my arguments about defending Palestinians on the basis of "What business is it of yours about the Palestinians?", simply because I am not Palestinian.

This is an example of where you attacked me and not my argument.

In fact you have never attacked my argument AT ALL, because you only ever responded to any point I made with some spurious counter allegation about something irrelevant. I was very polite to you, argued in a reasonable way, and all I got was insults, ignorance, and accusations, such as being called a liar. Funnily enough, like below!

I then chose to reciprocate at first, then to ignore you. And now here we are.


Did you not ask Jimbob what business was it of his to criticise Zionism on Post #23? This thread is essentially about Zionism and your defence of it.

I am sure a quick trawl through your posts will unearth more examples.

No one is forcing you to post what you do Tony, I personally have no problem at all if you dislike Muslims, Homosexuals, Non white people, disabled people, whatever. It does not bother me in the slightest.

However, if you come on SN and air such an opinion, you do need to be prepared to explain yourself, give a reason for your opinion, be prepared to defend it (properly) and then either put up or shut up.

People can agree to disagree you know? And then you move on.

If you know this already, then you are a wind up merchant, if you don't know this already...well I don't know in that case.

I am not going to go back to debating with you Tony, but just to carry on ignoring you. This post is an exception, so you don't have to respond to this. If I sense your posting style change (not your opinions of course) then I will re engage with you. If you deteriorate, then I will do what I said at the beginning of this post.

Asif

tony de wonderful

It's a legitimate question. If you are going to claim solidarity with a people, a bias in favour of them, it is entirely fair to ask why. If you are Palestinian it would make sense.

Sure why not?

AsifScoob

But this is my point Tony, on both counts. Why do I have to have the same race as someone I choose to defend? We are having a hypothetical discussion on an internet website. I can attack or defend whomever I like. I can choose to see both sides of an argument. I do so based upon what I read, not the colour of my skin.

Am I therefore not allowed to criticise Pakistani Muslims who are born and brought up in the UK, because I am one of them? It makes no sense.

Am I not allowed to say, "Those starving Ethiopians are having a hard time", unless I am a starving Ethiopian?

If background is what gives your argument legitimacy, you have been asked on numerous occasions about your background, but refuse to give any details. People ask, not because they are nosey, but because you put so much stall into others' backgrounds, but are so coy about your own.

It is clear to me that you feel revealing your own background will undermine all your arguments. I suggest to you therefore, if your arguments are so weak and fragile that they will fall down once you reveal a bit more about yourself, that perhaps you change the subject a tad?

It won't do you any harm.

Asif

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Much the same as it is fair to ask the same of you and your defence of Israel, and seeming slating of Muslims, but you won't answer and claim 'bullying' when asked if you were Jewish.

If you are not (and I personally couldn't care) then you have an opinion about a subject being discussed, just as others have theirs and surely then it shouldn't matter where they are from either.

Btw, I am not picking on you.

JTaylor

I just find it odd that you don't recognise the overwhelming religious issue in play, even Boney M did a turn on the subject.

Third Temple?

JTaylor

It's well framed, it's rational.......good luck, Tony.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So you are from Israel then. Or are you just a hypocrite?

AsifScoob

Are you referring to this?

http://endtimepilgrim.org/thirdtemple.htm

Definitely gives creedence to my previous point. Quite frightening in fact.

PS. I did receive a copy of Night Flight To Venus for my 10th birthday, but didn't spot any subversive Zionism on there!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

And you have the nerve to complain about people making personal attacks.

I may not be the best (by a long shot) at wording things, but my point stands.

By his reasoning..... he is either Jewish and 'it would make sense', or he's not, then 'what business is it of his' (as was said to Asif).

I think here F1 has summed it up.

You can have a go at me all you like, I have far greater worries right now than what someone I don't even know thinks of me, based upon the way I put a point across.

JTaylor

This is a cororally (a weak one) founded on an untruth. I haven't 'confessed' to a 'double standard', you accused me of such.

'by the river of Babylon......when we remember Ziiiiion'. Psalm 136:1, pop charts no.1:1978.

JTaylor

Simmer down, I'm agreeing with you. After a sterling effort Tony's trapped himself.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I do apologise.

I just know I don't have the way with words that some people do, and thought you were mocking. Sorry.

JTaylor

Don't worry, it's cool, I can see how it may have read like that.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Thank you.

I am a very sensitive soul.

tony de wonderful

I'm more interested in the motivations and hypocrisy of Israels enemies and why they claim solidarity with the Palestinians.

I've said before my ethnicity/religion is irrelevant, it has been used to attack me personally instead of my arguments in a sinister racist way.

We have posters here who claim to share solidarity with the Palestinians based on a shared religion (even though the Palestinians are not exclusively of that religion), by extension in is claimed that members of that religion living 1000's of miles away are victims by association and justified to take action.

There is plenty of injustice in this world but the Palestinians seem to get more than their fare share of 'solidarity' - or at least people adopting their cause, western liberals and lefties, plus many from a particular religion and the extremists etc - and deciding what exactly the Palestinians must want and what injustices they have endured, if you like making the Palestinians their clients. It's a question worth asking, and if these people were also Palestinians then you could argue that it is filial loyalty making them march on the street - there is some logic there, it's a solidarity based on something 'real'....religion is also but it is weaker IMHO and most of it is fake, you have British born people of Pakistani origin with the tube bombings who seemed to consider themselves victims because of what the Palestinians may or may not endure. It makes no sense from any critical POV.

Whilst Israel remains a pretext/justification for members of a particular religion/political movement to want to attack my country, endanger my life and want to take my freedoms etc then the Israel-Palestinian conflict is my business and it is reasonable for me to want to take an interest. As that pretext is by an large fake IMHO...a religious solidarity...then I will attack it and criticise it and by extension Israels enemies since these enemies are also my enemies.

So for that reason I have solidarity with Israel.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well you have finally answered my question in a roundabout way. The problem is I think you are for some reason blind to the wrongs that Israel and the West commit whereas you are only too ready to attack anything and everything about Islam.

That is why I think people are interested in yout ethinicity/religion as they are looking for a reason as to why you are so pro West/Israel and anti Islam and the role of a 'typical Jew' would fit that nicely... that is a figure of speech not an attack btw.

I would take issue with this:

I haven't seen anywhere where anyone has attacked you in a 'sinister racist way' certainly not any more than you and Taylor have alienated certain posters on this board not so much by what you have said exactly, but by the general undertone of your posts and seeming neverending crusade against all things Islam.

I would implore you to try and be more neutral and look at how your posts come across to many people on this board as it is quite unpleasant sometimes. I promise you I am not alone in this viewpoint.

JTaylor

Good post.

Bubba po

I'm on the side of the Palestinians and I have no religion at all. Neither do I have any racial affinity with them.

JTaylor

Which I get and believe and feel is a noble position, but understand that you are in the company, overwhelmingly, of Islamic theocrats and anti-Semites. I too have sympathy with the Palestinian people but fear that their sponsors are opposed to freedom of expression and free religion and would happily see the infidel extirpated.

There needs to be a distinction made between solidarity with the proletariat and a criticism of the forces who use their plight to usher in a much broader relgio-political agenda. Much of which Tony has countered is the narrative of these forces.

Luan Pra bang

I have solidarity with any opressed people, it just so happens that Palestinians feature highly becuase the shocking crimes committed against the palestinian people by Israel and is supporters has a knock on effect all over the world including the UK. Years of UK American and Russian support for Israels crimes has helped create a definate divide between the Islamic and christian world that helps those who gain self importance from terrorism find easy reccruits. From a point of view of a paelstinian who has had their own children wife or relatives murdered by the IDF why would they not support terrorism against the west ? Western leaders support Israel in their treatment of Palestinians as a sub human species with no right to life land or freedom and we support those leaders.
If an Arab nation acted they way Israel do we would probably find an excuse to invade yet we don't make the slightest effort to curb their excess', A simple round of economic sanctions and an arms embargo against Israel may get their attention and even stop terrorist attacks from being targeted at the UK. Frankly the fact that we trade with Israel is a joke.

Geezer

I am against Israel, it does not make me an anti-Semite. The religion of Israel and it's supporters is irrelevant, it's their behaviour. Don't try to play the anti-Semitism game

If anyone behaved like this I would find it abhorrent.

I against Judaism in the same way I am against Christianity or Islam, but I am in no way against Jews, Christians or Muslims. There is a very important difference.

Geezer