JTaylor

I didn't realise you were in it.

Suresh

Talking of reality checks ~ that's a total lie of course which makes you really quite ignorant indeed. The biggest cause of death is brown on brown religious sectarian violence. The RoP strikes again!

But why let the truth get in the way of your beliefs, eh?

JTaylor

Just to clarify, it isn't the peaceniks I'm supporting, you seem a little confused. Additionally, please explain the Vietnam reference, this is obscure also.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Two things. One you are talking crap and secondly even if what you say was true surely the invading fiorce that has destroyed the country is in some way to blame for the civil war that now exists there.

P.S. If you would like to supply me with some evidence that the invading US/UK troops did not kill any civilians then I would be very pleased to receive it. I presume you have it due to your comment about what I said being a total lie, not even a partial one. If not a retraction will be fine.

JTaylor

David, you seem to be implying that we should have left Saddam in power but that we should remove Mugabe. Would you be so good as to explain your logic please?

David Lock

I was just posing a question really for discussion. I don't know whether leaving Saddam would have been the lesser of two terrible evils? But when the West did take him out we seem to have made a pretty big ***** up of the whole business.

Mugabe presented/presents a quite different scenario. Any action would have had to be taken by African force with discrete help from the West so that he didn't play the race/colonial card. But there is a reasonable opposition there and there is little doubt that the country could regain its status if only.......

An assassin's bullet might do the trick in Zimbabwe but it wouldn't have worked in Iraq?

dl

Leslie

You can say all you like about SH and his evil ways, as well as his egregious sons, but the fact remains that it was an internationally illegal war and SH was not a good enough excuse to attack Iraq. They should have tried harder to get support from the UN.

I wonder why Billy Boy and Dubya decided that there would be no official record kept of the casualties which ensued from that war.

Les

Martin2005

I suspect that over the next few years we are going to be presented with an equally difficult a divisive problem: Iran.

Do we simply allow the Iranian regime nuclear weapons, or do we do all we can' and that mean ultimately military intervention, to prevent it?

I'm sure Galloway would be happy to salute the Iranian regime and support their 'right' to nuclear arms.

For me the potential consequences of Iran have a nuke, far outweigh the consequences of preventing it.

JTaylor

The Mugabe issue is tough: China and Russia have often opposing interests in Zimbabwe, so we'd effectively be siding with one or t'other. We have issues with the African Union with whom diplomacy remains embryonic and there's South Africa to consider. Couple that with the fact we're stretched in the middle east and that there's no advantage to be gained, Mugabe's off the radar.

Jamz3k

Question Time has been a bit of a let down ever since your boyo from the BNP was on it.

JTaylor

To the bulging basket of advantages of the Iraq invasion, you can add strategic and geo-political advantage regarding Iran.

Suresh

I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you seriously expect an apology from me.

You made a propoganda statement inferring that British troops were deliberately killing all the darkies they could and hadn't yet succeeded in doing them all. You really should be ashamed of yourself for making such a low-brow assertion. But somehow I expect you're proud you made your big point on behalf of "the brothers", innit.

My point of sectarian violence being the biggest problem still stands. Google "Iraq Mosque Bomb" if you want some examples. The causes are complex for sure and the removal of Saddam from power would certainly be a catalyst - as a totalitarian regime was taken out leaving people free to do what they wanted. Peace and democracy weren't high on the agenda for some it seems

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Would never have worked in Iraq, because Saddam had several dozen doubles and told nobody (not even his sons) where he would be in advance.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Don't expect or want an apology, just a retraction.

Where on earth did you get that from in my post??? British troops deliberately killing civilians FFS??? Where did I even infer that?

My point is that if you go invading a country like Iraq you are going to end up causing the deaths of civilains, it's inevitable. If you don't invade it then you won't.

My comment merely juxtaposed the lives of those left alive in Iraq today against those that were killed as a result of our invasion (British and American forces). I don't blame the troops on the ground one iota, they were just doing a job, I do however blame Blair and Bush.

You know what I will have that apology as what you drew form my post was what you wanted to, not what it said and is actually quite twisted.

David Lock

Reminds me of the old Saddam doubles joke: -

There was a bomb attack on Saddam and all the doubles were called in and waited for the news. Saddam's aide came in with a serious look on his face. "Well there's good news and bad news boys". Fortunately our master lives on. But sadly he lost an arm in the attack

dl

JTaylor

There are rumours, and I'm sure they're just that, that f1_fan was a member of the far-left splinter group, Pacifists for Saddam.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes I was Chief Brainwasher, but you already know that don't you..... news travels fast on SN

JTaylor

"Hussein not Halliburton!" was one of the chants, it's rumoured.

hodgy0_2

agreed

the Vietnam quote sums up the fact that American foreign policy does not seem to have changed much in the last 30 years,

"To save Iraq is was necessary to destory it" -- seems to be the basic premise of the whole exercise - when you strip away the self righteous claptrap.

JTaylor

It's changed enormously.

Not so. Iraq hasn't been destroyed; where it's been damaged we're rebuilding.

Is this about logic and principle, Hodgy, or do you just dislike The Septics?

DCI Gene Hunt

We're not rebuilding the "damage"- it's restructuring on a mass scale that's taking place, at least get the basic principles right.

hodgy0_2

Quite - it misses the point as spectacularly as saying the Mussolini made the trains run on time

I don't dislike the Americans, but they have a pretty long history of pushing their weight around and actively and militarily muddling in other countries affairs - leaving them alot worse off

I find it ironic that you give them such an easy time considering 50% of them discount the theory of evolution, believe humans kept T-Rex's as pets and the Earth is less than 5000 years old -pretty fundamental beliefs

JTaylor

This is another simile (of four so far) that I don't follow, I'm afraid.

...and of contributing significantly to the liberation of Europe in WW2, lest we forget. Regarding the doomed intervention in Indochina, if you wish to discuss this and the insipid Henry Kissinger and the self-pitying Robert McNamara, perhaps you could start a thread on the subject. It'd be good to find out your views. By the way, I'm happy to tear the policy in South America to shreads at any time, too. I'm equally happy to applaud the recognition of Cory Aquino in the Philippines in '86 despite this meaning a base was lost but by supporting the people in Manila that year, the Yanks helped democracy movements spread through Taiwan and South Korea and even as far Tiananmen Square in '89. Wolfowitz and Kissinger, same accent, different heart.

Leslie

I would agree with what you say Martin, but the attacking of Iran without positive agressive action from them in the first place would just not be worth the candle. It would cause world wide recrimination.

Les

JTaylor

So you're prepared to watch Ahmadinejad acquire nuclear weapons.

GC8WRX

when is war ever legal?


Your muslim loving traits coming out again, you sound like you should give a speech in a mosque!

GC8WRX

does lisa wrx have you on red alert and search every post for potential swear filter bypass?


Its getting worse in here, next it will be vaping the word islam to please f1 fan!



mint gif btw!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Whereas you sound like you should give one to Combat 18

Anyway where have you been, we have missed you

GC8WRX

seriously, do you have ties to that part of the world, do you have a muslim wife or something?


You harp on about this sh1te all the time, are you going to blow up a plane soon to avenge your muslim brothers!



We went to war for maybe the wrong reasons on the face of it all but saddam needed removing, end of.


You act like its a crusade against all muslims, just like the nutters who end up blowionig themselves up!




Serious question, where does it all come from, what ties do you have to islam?

GC8WRX

oh hello lover, i missed you too lol!