What's the best value speaker cables peeps ?.
12 February 2011, 08:32 AM
#61
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Bi-wiring DOES work.
I use ATC SCM300s with Crown Macrotech Reference amps. Tri-amped.
I'm a little bit more sceptical about speaker cable though - there's a LOT of bullsh1t about this, but amping/crossovers DO work.
IF you've got the capacity to use it, do. BUT they will need setting up to get a flat response.
I use ATC SCM300s with Crown Macrotech Reference amps. Tri-amped.
I'm a little bit more sceptical about speaker cable though - there's a LOT of bullsh1t about this, but amping/crossovers DO work.
IF you've got the capacity to use it, do. BUT they will need setting up to get a flat response.
Bi wiring is not the same as Bi or Tri amping. I never said bi amping doesn't work I said bi wiring with a single amplifier doesn't make any difference, and it doesn't.
12 February 2011, 08:49 AM
#62
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To be honest, who cares?
I'm still using the cable talk talk 2 biwire stuff i bought over 15 years ago, and the QED 79 strand, it sounds good to me and that's all that matters.
its all down to human taste, and what one person likes another doesn't.
Perceived cost vs quality vs snob factor is what drives 90% of the argument. (It must be good, because it cost £40 per metre
) lets face it 90% of the time the only people who will hear your "ultimate" cables output are yourself your immediate family. 
If you like what you hear from your setup, that's all that matters. ...
I'm still using the cable talk talk 2 biwire stuff i bought over 15 years ago, and the QED 79 strand, it sounds good to me and that's all that matters.
its all down to human taste, and what one person likes another doesn't.
Perceived cost vs quality vs snob factor is what drives 90% of the argument. (It must be good, because it cost £40 per metre
) lets face it 90% of the time the only people who will hear your "ultimate" cables output are yourself your immediate family. If you like what you hear from your setup, that's all that matters. ...
Dave
12 February 2011, 09:04 AM
#63
There is point you reach where the wire's quality becomes insignificant. Remember, the average Hi-fi rarely pulls 200watts...thats about 1.5amps per speaker...you don't need anything thicker than 5amp rated cable unless ifs a very long cable run (I dig up another thread where I waffled on this for quite a bit, but I can't find it).
For example, AWG 16 grade cable is good for around 117amps! The lower the AWG, the thicker the cable.....
Maplin do a 10m roll of 12AWG OFC cable for £20 (Branded "shark" ). That is about ten times thicker than what your average home Hi-Fi needs. Thats what I use on my car's subwoofers. And thats still overkill, as its running something silly like 500 watts per channel (250watt s RMS IIRC).
Front speaker are run using 17AWG version of the same stuff (£16) again, overkill.
Just avoid Maplin's interconnects - they are massively overpriced for very average quality connectors
B&Q's wire speaker is fairly good, branded Tower, comes in 10m rolls. Thats what runs the surround on my telly. (100 watts per channel RMS.....but about 30watt real-world watts as the amp's PSU can't drive all the channels at full power).
I make my own interconnects.
For example, AWG 16 grade cable is good for around 117amps! The lower the AWG, the thicker the cable.....
Maplin do a 10m roll of 12AWG OFC cable for £20 (Branded "shark" ). That is about ten times thicker than what your average home Hi-Fi needs. Thats what I use on my car's subwoofers. And thats still overkill, as its running something silly like 500 watts per channel (250watt s RMS IIRC).
Front speaker are run using 17AWG version of the same stuff (£16) again, overkill.
Just avoid Maplin's interconnects - they are massively overpriced for very average quality connectors
B&Q's wire speaker is fairly good, branded Tower, comes in 10m rolls. Thats what runs the surround on my telly. (100 watts per channel RMS.....but about 30watt real-world watts as the amp's PSU can't drive all the channels at full power).
I make my own interconnects.
Last edited by ALi-B; 12 February 2011 at 09:13 AM.
12 February 2011, 09:41 AM
#64
Scooby Regular
To be honest, who cares?
I'm still using the cable talk talk 2 biwire stuff i bought over 15 years ago, and the QED 79 strand, it sounds good to me and that's all that matters.
its all down to human taste, and what one person likes another doesn't.
Perceived cost vs quality vs snob factor is what drives 90% of the argument. (It must be good, because it cost £40 per metre) lets face it 90% of the time the only people who will hear your "ultimate" cables output are yourself your immediate family.
If you like what you hear from your setup, that's all that matters.
Mart
I'm still using the cable talk talk 2 biwire stuff i bought over 15 years ago, and the QED 79 strand, it sounds good to me and that's all that matters.
its all down to human taste, and what one person likes another doesn't.
Perceived cost vs quality vs snob factor is what drives 90% of the argument. (It must be good, because it cost £40 per metre
) lets face it 90% of the time the only people who will hear your "ultimate" cables output are yourself your immediate family. If you like what you hear from your setup, that's all that matters.
Mart
A lot of people care as well when they spend a lot of money on a system they want to make sure that they are exploiting the full potential of it and not restricting it in anyway, which is what a lot of marketing waffle tries to make you believe. I thought that would have been obvious.
I hope to the OP that the thread has been helpful, if as I said before you want
to find out more on this topic do a search on AVforums, there are threads that can go into great detail about this and it always emerges that those who know what they are talking about say that the same as what was being said towards the end here.
12 February 2011, 11:19 AM
#65
This is an interesting read on AV forums about speaker cable
http://www.avforums.com/forums/speak...aker-wire.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/speak...aker-wire.html
Last edited by Rob_Impreza99; 12 February 2011 at 11:21 AM.
12 February 2011, 11:45 AM
#67
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Fishy, you are talking nonsense, talk to any engineer and they will tell you so.
The resistance and impedance are of no relevance in reality unless you had a a run of speaker wire of about 100 miles.
And forget about audible artefacts when you link these expensive and well constructed but cheaper wires up to an oscilloscope there are not even electrical artefacts that can be detected.
The resistance and impedance are of no relevance in reality unless you had a a run of speaker wire of about 100 miles.
And forget about audible artefacts when you link these expensive and well constructed but cheaper wires up to an oscilloscope there are not even electrical artefacts that can be detected.
Talk to any engineer and they will tell you so.
Speak to anyone at the national grid - losses over 100 miles would be HUGE - even for massive cables at massive voltage.
I am not making an argument for better or worse - just some basic electrical facts.
12 February 2011, 11:52 AM
#68
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On my hifi setup I use a custom made ofc cable, that a customer of mine made for me and I thought it was fantastic and paid him accordingly for it.
My interconnect between amp and CD player is an Ixos Ixotica cable which retails at £200, the fact that even my girlfriend could tell the difference between it and the previous interconnect spoke volumes for how much it opened up my hifi setup.
My fav cable for bang for buck was Gale Symphony200 which is £1.50pm and as for phonocables, the Cambridge Audio Pacific 1m for £30 used to be an absolute cracker!
My interconnect between amp and CD player is an Ixos Ixotica cable which retails at £200, the fact that even my girlfriend could tell the difference between it and the previous interconnect spoke volumes for how much it opened up my hifi setup.
My fav cable for bang for buck was Gale Symphony200 which is £1.50pm and as for phonocables, the Cambridge Audio Pacific 1m for £30 used to be an absolute cracker!
12 February 2011, 01:26 PM
#69
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12 February 2011, 03:08 PM
#70
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I think it's a bit like a car.You have to get the basics right before you spend out on esoteric upgrades.
I was happy with my system,I had my cd (cd6s) player on a glass shelf for ages.Then I found some info about them being better off on a wooden support.Well the difference is frankly amazing! I am not talking about a subtle difference here,this is like chalk & cheese.
So now I am once again happily going through my music collection & it's like hearing it all again for the first time
I am still running the same cables (QED silver anniversery bi-wire) as I have a bi-amped configuration.I had thought about upgrading the cable but I don't think that will happen for a while now
Get you front end sorted as much as possible seems to be the way as I have always believed.....rubbish in= rubbish out.
I was happy with my system,I had my cd (cd6s) player on a glass shelf for ages.Then I found some info about them being better off on a wooden support.Well the difference is frankly amazing! I am not talking about a subtle difference here,this is like chalk & cheese.
So now I am once again happily going through my music collection & it's like hearing it all again for the first time
I am still running the same cables (QED silver anniversery bi-wire) as I have a bi-amped configuration.I had thought about upgrading the cable but I don't think that will happen for a while now
Get you front end sorted as much as possible seems to be the way as I have always believed.....rubbish in= rubbish out.
12 February 2011, 03:44 PM
#72
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I would hope analog.
12 February 2011, 03:56 PM
#73
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12 February 2011, 03:59 PM
#74
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I wonder why the likes of Atacama use glass shelves?
I don't know but different supports definately gave different results.
Atacama is probably a lot better than my very old Sound Organisation rack
I don't know but different supports definately gave different results.
Atacama is probably a lot better than my very old Sound Organisation rack
12 February 2011, 05:13 PM
#75
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12 February 2011, 05:45 PM
#76
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Ive heard all sorts. Glass offers better electrical isolation. Solid wood offers the most stable platform. MDF offers the best isolation from vibrations. Whats left?
12 February 2011, 07:05 PM
#79
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The DACs are generally better in a good CD player than a well matched amp so no you would usually want to use analog. In theory you could use digital from a cheap CD player and connect to a better quality amp to cheat and get good sound but it will stick having clocking/jitter issues.
12 February 2011, 07:22 PM
#80
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What??
Which quality power amplifiers do you know that have optical inputs? 99% of all amps (unless you are talking about AV receivers) will only take an analogue input whether single ended RCA or balanced.
The digital output of a CD has to be converted to analogue, this will either be done on board the CDP or via an external DAC. The resultant analogue signal will then be fed to a power amplifier
12 February 2011, 07:27 PM
#81
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In a previous life I used to work for QED, about 18 years ago, running their tech support section - cables/ switch boxes and Systemline home automation. It was a time when Qudos was just out, Profile 4x4, Profile Silver 12 and Genesis (£150 p/m!) etc. I did most of the big audio and home automation shows, along with visiting a lot of the dealers.
We did many a blind listening test in their lab with everything from low end midi systems to some seriously high end equipment and there was a definite difference between your off the reel electric cable and the specialist cables we were selling i.e. Qudos, Profile 4x4 etc. For example the Qudos (£1 p/m at the time) really brought out some of the subtleties of the music that were missing with bog standard electrical cables, however moving up the range the more expensive cables didn't necessarily sound 'better' just 'different' - better mid range in some, but with worse low end etc.
I've still got some Profile Silver 12 (£15 p/m I remember) in the loft, along with Profile 4x4 (£8 p/m ?) . I've now got a dedicated cinema room in my home, run by an Onkyo THX amp and Mission speakers - so mid range stuff, all bi-wired in with Qudos as I prefer the sound of it over, say the more expensive profile cables.
If you're looking for some decent cables, my advice would be to visit a decent hi-fi store (i.e. The Listening rooms/Grahams Hifi etc) and get them to demo you some of their cables - most of the decent specialists will have lengths ready made up, then choose the one you like the best - and it probably wont be the most expensive p/m.
And I personally wouldn't waste too much money on hugely expensive interconnects - unless the games changed much over the past 18 years.
Neil
We did many a blind listening test in their lab with everything from low end midi systems to some seriously high end equipment and there was a definite difference between your off the reel electric cable and the specialist cables we were selling i.e. Qudos, Profile 4x4 etc. For example the Qudos (£1 p/m at the time) really brought out some of the subtleties of the music that were missing with bog standard electrical cables, however moving up the range the more expensive cables didn't necessarily sound 'better' just 'different' - better mid range in some, but with worse low end etc.
I've still got some Profile Silver 12 (£15 p/m I remember) in the loft, along with Profile 4x4 (£8 p/m ?) . I've now got a dedicated cinema room in my home, run by an Onkyo THX amp and Mission speakers - so mid range stuff, all bi-wired in with Qudos as I prefer the sound of it over, say the more expensive profile cables.
If you're looking for some decent cables, my advice would be to visit a decent hi-fi store (i.e. The Listening rooms/Grahams Hifi etc) and get them to demo you some of their cables - most of the decent specialists will have lengths ready made up, then choose the one you like the best - and it probably wont be the most expensive p/m.
And I personally wouldn't waste too much money on hugely expensive interconnects - unless the games changed much over the past 18 years.
Neil
Last edited by Scoobyworld; 12 February 2011 at 07:28 PM.
12 February 2011, 07:32 PM
#82
What??
Which quality power amplifiers do you know that have optical inputs? 99% of all amps (unless you are talking about AV receivers) will only take an analogue input whether single ended RCA or balanced.
The digital output of a CD has to be converted to analogue, this will either be done on board the CDP or via an external DAC. The resultant analogue signal will then be fed to a power amplifier
Which quality power amplifiers do you know that have optical inputs? 99% of all amps (unless you are talking about AV receivers) will only take an analogue input whether single ended RCA or balanced.
The digital output of a CD has to be converted to analogue, this will either be done on board the CDP or via an external DAC. The resultant analogue signal will then be fed to a power amplifier
Both of mine do - Notably better than Phono inputs too.
The amp is doing the D-A conversion, but of course there is less disturbance and "issue" caused by the interconnects (unless you kink the fibre optic cable, I have, and yes, it is noticable - its never the same afterwards).
Last edited by ALi-B; 12 February 2011 at 07:35 PM.
12 February 2011, 07:59 PM
#83
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Most high-end latter-year technics have optical inputs. ( 2 channel)
Both of mine do - Notably better than Phono inputs too.
The amp is doing the D-A conversion, but of course there is less disturbance and "issue" caused by the interconnects (unless you kink the fibre optic cable, I have, and yes, it is noticable - its never the same afterwards).
Both of mine do - Notably better than Phono inputs too.
The amp is doing the D-A conversion, but of course there is less disturbance and "issue" caused by the interconnects (unless you kink the fibre optic cable, I have, and yes, it is noticable - its never the same afterwards).
Which amps are they Ali?
12 February 2011, 08:14 PM
#84
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12 February 2011, 11:09 PM
#86
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No, not at all. To the best of my knowledge decent amps do not have optical inputs
12 February 2011, 11:22 PM
#88
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I have always been lead to believe that for higher end equipment using optical would be one of the worst ways to transfer data due to the audio data/clock being sent on the same channel and 'talking' to each other causing increased jitter. Optical offers a reasonable and consistent bench mark where as cheap analogue offers a lower standard but expensive phonos offer better signal transfer.
Saying this I auditioned a few years back many different phono cables from Cambridge audio for £30 to Chord Chorus for £200 for use between my processor and power amp. I really couldnt hear any improvement at all and thought that it was all a big con. Then I tried some Van den Hul cables for £180 and for the first time I could actually hear a significant improvement.
Saying this I auditioned a few years back many different phono cables from Cambridge audio for £30 to Chord Chorus for £200 for use between my processor and power amp. I really couldnt hear any improvement at all and thought that it was all a big con. Then I tried some Van den Hul cables for £180 and for the first time I could actually hear a significant improvement.
13 February 2011, 07:53 AM
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