500bhp Build
23 February 2011, 11:26 AM
#121
like it LOL 
23 February 2011, 11:54 AM
#125
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Confidence in parts quality and staff ability is where it comes from. We warrant all of our work and parts.
BUT, if you walk in with some bag of poo parts bought off the internet for us to use - there are plenty of clauses and caveats.............
BUT, if you walk in with some bag of poo parts bought off the internet for us to use - there are plenty of clauses and caveats.............
23 February 2011, 12:01 PM
#126
Case in point - when mine was built, I found a crossdrilled 2.5 crank for sale that looked a good bet. But since it wasn't being supplied by S4Y they wouldn't have been able to provide any warranty on faults resulting from the crank.
So if a bearing had spun...would that have been as a result of the crank, or something else...a horrible grey area so, of course, I went with a stock crank supplied by S4Y.
So if a bearing had spun...would that have been as a result of the crank, or something else...a horrible grey area so, of course, I went with a stock crank supplied by S4Y.
23 February 2011, 12:20 PM
#127
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my aim is to drive 300 miles to santa pod. run low tens all day and drive 300 mile home again. oh and all on pump fuel
23 February 2011, 12:24 PM
#128
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Interesting topic, warranties.
Our view is that we want our customers to be out there enjoying our products and everything we do is geared in that direction.
There is no question that of course we stand by our work and the quality of the parts we supply.
I think it's unlikely that any warranty on a modified Subaru "engine" is likely to be "no quibble" considering the potholes and molehills all over the green!
Our view is that we want our customers to be out there enjoying our products and everything we do is geared in that direction.
There is no question that of course we stand by our work and the quality of the parts we supply.
I think it's unlikely that any warranty on a modified Subaru "engine" is likely to be "no quibble" considering the potholes and molehills all over the green!
23 February 2011, 12:31 PM
#129
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David,
If you had built an engine for a customer and due to data logging you realised the same custom blew the thing to bits by down shifting into a wrong gear fella ? I'm just curious how a tuner who provides warranties would view this issue.
Damien has a good point in what he says. We have both been involved with major builds using two good companies, RCM & Scooby Clinic, and you will find that a bond develops between yo and your tuner.
Dgoddens
As you were happy with APi's work & commitment your bond will be strengthened by staying with them.
Tidgy
Rather than ask F1 CJE UK how much for what power, this question can be answered more realistically if you spent 20 minutes in a car like his.
I have had all the stick about £ spent BUT after the same guys have been for a blast there views and attitudes are so very different.
I also agree with guys in this thread that talk about bhp. Coming up through the ranks from 310 to 400 to 450 then 500 & now 540 I would also agree that 400 - 450 (driven hard) is huge power for street use.
500+ in a classic or newage is a seriously fast machine when set up correctly regarding engine, suspension, braking etc etc.
If you had built an engine for a customer and due to data logging you realised the same custom blew the thing to bits by down shifting into a wrong gear fella ? I'm just curious how a tuner who provides warranties would view this issue.
Damien has a good point in what he says. We have both been involved with major builds using two good companies, RCM & Scooby Clinic, and you will find that a bond develops between yo and your tuner.
Dgoddens
As you were happy with APi's work & commitment your bond will be strengthened by staying with them.
Tidgy
Rather than ask F1 CJE UK how much for what power, this question can be answered more realistically if you spent 20 minutes in a car like his.
I have had all the stick about £ spent BUT after the same guys have been for a blast there views and attitudes are so very different.
I also agree with guys in this thread that talk about bhp. Coming up through the ranks from 310 to 400 to 450 then 500 & now 540 I would also agree that 400 - 450 (driven hard) is huge power for street use.
500+ in a classic or newage is a seriously fast machine when set up correctly regarding engine, suspension, braking etc etc.
23 February 2011, 12:50 PM
#130
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e.g. If you have a new age STi, you're sorted with the gearbox (not the clutch) if not, that's another 2.5k+ then you have the suspension if you're not at least on an STi set up with upgraded springs (at least another 1k) Then you have the brakes, again, if you don't have Brembos with decent discs, you're looking at another 1k.
The list goes on!
23 February 2011, 01:09 PM
#131
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Tidgy
Rather than ask F1 CJE UK how much for what power, this question can be answered more realistically if you spent 20 minutes in a car like his.
I have had all the stick about £ spent BUT after the same guys have been for a blast there views and attitudes are so very different.
Rather than ask F1 CJE UK how much for what power, this question can be answered more realistically if you spent 20 minutes in a car like his.
I have had all the stick about £ spent BUT after the same guys have been for a blast there views and attitudes are so very different.
so it's not just a case of saying go in it and you'll see the difference
.
23 February 2011, 01:22 PM
#132
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[QUOTE=SkullFudge;9898141]David,
If you had built an engine for a customer and due to data logging you realised the same custom blew the thing to bits by down shifting into a wrong gear fella ? I'm just curious how a tuner who provides warranties would view this issue.
Ours is by no means a no quibble warranty, BUT if we have Fcuked up or fitted a faulty part, then we take it on the chin.
We have just replaced a whole engine free of charge in a lads STi 4. We sold him a tested low mileage engine and less than 1000 miles later it is back, completely wrecked. The oil stinks of fuel and every part has been washed with fuel and is beyond salvage. Arguably not our fault, but we fitted it and seemingly didn't register the over-fuelling.
We replaced the complete engine absolutely free of charge. BUT advised that if he didn't have the car remapped to overcome the over-fuelling, we would not do it again.
At the relatively low mileage covered - no matter the situation, he would have been protected by sale of goods [ un-merchantable quality ] If he had gone legal because we quibbled, we would have lost.
But if the " nut behind the wheel " does something daft - like missing a gear or downshifting instead of upshifting, or pings off the limiter when downshifting; and the data log shows that to be the case, we quibble like crazy.
There is always a deal to be done, no matter how much or not the customer has spent. lf we can assist to get the customer going again, after an unfortunate incident not of APi's making, we will work hard to get him back to where he was with discounts and freebies.
Assuming the customer is straight with us, we'll be straight by return.
BUT if the data log proves that the driver has not been straight, then we take a different view altogether.
Fair enough ??
David
If you had built an engine for a customer and due to data logging you realised the same custom blew the thing to bits by down shifting into a wrong gear fella ? I'm just curious how a tuner who provides warranties would view this issue.
Ours is by no means a no quibble warranty, BUT if we have Fcuked up or fitted a faulty part, then we take it on the chin.
We have just replaced a whole engine free of charge in a lads STi 4. We sold him a tested low mileage engine and less than 1000 miles later it is back, completely wrecked. The oil stinks of fuel and every part has been washed with fuel and is beyond salvage. Arguably not our fault, but we fitted it and seemingly didn't register the over-fuelling.
We replaced the complete engine absolutely free of charge. BUT advised that if he didn't have the car remapped to overcome the over-fuelling, we would not do it again.
At the relatively low mileage covered - no matter the situation, he would have been protected by sale of goods [ un-merchantable quality ] If he had gone legal because we quibbled, we would have lost.
But if the " nut behind the wheel " does something daft - like missing a gear or downshifting instead of upshifting, or pings off the limiter when downshifting; and the data log shows that to be the case, we quibble like crazy.
There is always a deal to be done, no matter how much or not the customer has spent. lf we can assist to get the customer going again, after an unfortunate incident not of APi's making, we will work hard to get him back to where he was with discounts and freebies.
Assuming the customer is straight with us, we'll be straight by return.
BUT if the data log proves that the driver has not been straight, then we take a different view altogether.
Fair enough ??
David
23 February 2011, 01:51 PM
#133
Really interesting read this, as like a lot of other people I am aspiring to a build, currently in the process of saving .. lol
What I would like to ask you guys that have run big power is what are the running costs like? I have heard the term 'refresh' and would like to know what is meant by this? I can relate to it in the same way as I race nitro rc cars (high level, not your off the shelf stuff) and am always taking a motor apart, replacing a rod after a few months etc, seals here and there, but it is massively different (and cheaper lol) to an impreza engine!!!
So once you have a 500bhp build, what do you do to maintain it, other than the usual oil changes etc?
SkullFudge; you say you have run yours for 30k with no issues other a failed map sensor, do you mean you haven't had any work other than general mainaintenance? Is your car still producung the same power as when it was first built?
Last year I did around 5k, my car is now just used for weekends and a few trackdays etc, so not massive mileage, luckily I've got out of using it for the commute
Looking forward to hearing back from you
Iain
What I would like to ask you guys that have run big power is what are the running costs like? I have heard the term 'refresh' and would like to know what is meant by this? I can relate to it in the same way as I race nitro rc cars (high level, not your off the shelf stuff) and am always taking a motor apart, replacing a rod after a few months etc, seals here and there, but it is massively different (and cheaper lol) to an impreza engine!!!
So once you have a 500bhp build, what do you do to maintain it, other than the usual oil changes etc?
SkullFudge; you say you have run yours for 30k with no issues other a failed map sensor, do you mean you haven't had any work other than general mainaintenance? Is your car still producung the same power as when it was first built?
Last year I did around 5k, my car is now just used for weekends and a few trackdays etc, so not massive mileage, luckily I've got out of using it for the commute
Looking forward to hearing back from you
Iain
23 February 2011, 02:48 PM
#134
Other components that people fail to take into account when talking cost!
e.g. If you have a new age STi, you're sorted with the gearbox (not the clutch) if not, that's another 2.5k+ then you have the suspension if you're not at least on an STi set up with upgraded springs (at least another 1k) Then you have the brakes, again, if you don't have Brembos with decent discs, you're looking at another 1k.
The list goes on!
e.g. If you have a new age STi, you're sorted with the gearbox (not the clutch) if not, that's another 2.5k+ then you have the suspension if you're not at least on an STi set up with upgraded springs (at least another 1k) Then you have the brakes, again, if you don't have Brembos with decent discs, you're looking at another 1k.
The list goes on!
My STI suspension with uprated front and rear ARB's and anti lift was fine up to around 550bhp after that the power shows how bad the suspension is and the car just seemed to bounce about giving you no confidence in the car on the bends.
23 February 2011, 02:57 PM
#136
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time for toyo 888s or Micky Thompsons on 15" rims me thinks. then i will start to worry about the driveshafts breaking.
It's only money i suppose
23 February 2011, 03:17 PM
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David, that's a fair comment. I only asked as it must always be a difficult issue in the tuners world.
Tidgy, you were passenger or you drove the cars mate? I mentioned it because I have driven other Scoobs with similar power levels both classic & new age but the delivery and feel was very different.
Iain, when they built the engine I collected the car at 400. The expenditure was then focused on the car, EXE-TC suspension, AP 330 6 pot brakes, hydraulic triple plate OSG clutch etc.
Car was then returned to RCM & went twisted on the turbo.
Had car mapped by Paul (Zens) and now running at 540 on 20% Meths & 500 on VPower only.
No replacements of any parts other than failed component (Map Sensor).
Running costs throughout is a service every 6-7K or I have a service & fluid check after ragging it on an open pit track day.
Regarding a "refresh", I enquired at RCM about this and they said, no need.
Like I have been telling everyone for 3 years, buy the best, you will pay once. Achieve big power using cheaper parts, you will never stop spending mate.
I see lots of it happening around me every year and all the disappointment that goes with it.
Tidgy, you were passenger or you drove the cars mate? I mentioned it because I have driven other Scoobs with similar power levels both classic & new age but the delivery and feel was very different.
Iain, when they built the engine I collected the car at 400. The expenditure was then focused on the car, EXE-TC suspension, AP 330 6 pot brakes, hydraulic triple plate OSG clutch etc.
Car was then returned to RCM & went twisted on the turbo.
Had car mapped by Paul (Zens) and now running at 540 on 20% Meths & 500 on VPower only.
No replacements of any parts other than failed component (Map Sensor).
Running costs throughout is a service every 6-7K or I have a service & fluid check after ragging it on an open pit track day.
Regarding a "refresh", I enquired at RCM about this and they said, no need.
Like I have been telling everyone for 3 years, buy the best, you will pay once. Achieve big power using cheaper parts, you will never stop spending mate.
I see lots of it happening around me every year and all the disappointment that goes with it.
23 February 2011, 03:28 PM
#141
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23 February 2011, 03:29 PM
#142
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2.5's running GENUINE high 400's or even low 500's will never stay together for very long. See my above post ref liner flex. Expect 20,000 miles before oil consumption starts and then monitor it until it needs oil every time you stop for fuel.
That's what I tell customers.
I have one that after 42,000 miles at 430 something 480 odd ft lbs, has just needed a slight top up of the oil between oil change services. It gets used every day and the owner is very happy with performance.
But once it starts to use oil, it's days will be numbered.
We have a 2.5 making 550 or so on 20 % bio that throws oil all over the shop - but runs good times on the strip [ for what it is ] and is still together [ after 2 seasons of nowt but launch and run ] - just ......
David
That's what I tell customers.
I have one that after 42,000 miles at 430 something 480 odd ft lbs, has just needed a slight top up of the oil between oil change services. It gets used every day and the owner is very happy with performance.
But once it starts to use oil, it's days will be numbered.
We have a 2.5 making 550 or so on 20 % bio that throws oil all over the shop - but runs good times on the strip [ for what it is ] and is still together [ after 2 seasons of nowt but launch and run ] - just ......
David
23 February 2011, 03:43 PM
#143
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I have a 2.5l bugeye that was 520/520 with methanol mix and is now 470-480 of each. I have owned it for three years after buying it in the UK and driving it for the past three years in Cyprus. The engine was already built and was used in anger many times by the previous owner. I think he never used it unless he could cane it.
I use it as a daily driver and have covered another 20,000 miles. It gets driven in daily traffic, gets driven in 40+ degree temps and has been used for a few trackdays. Oil pressure perfect and the only issue i have is fuel consumption in traffic and some oil consumption, which it always had. I would never consider a refresh after a certain amount of use. Usual service and oil change every 3000miles. When something breaks or it goes bang it will be fixed. Obviously Steven's engine building skills and mapping by Paul help!!
I have the same philosophy with my hillclimb WRX. It has been running strong since 2005 and I may open it up later in the year as I am starting to lag behind 'newer' engine combos. It has been on the same open deck 2l block since new (1997) and for a number of years 2000-2005 was running over 2bar with the GT35. Work was done by TRP in OZ, who do not have the best reputation for reliability. Has done over 80,000 miles.
I use it as a daily driver and have covered another 20,000 miles. It gets driven in daily traffic, gets driven in 40+ degree temps and has been used for a few trackdays. Oil pressure perfect and the only issue i have is fuel consumption in traffic and some oil consumption, which it always had. I would never consider a refresh after a certain amount of use. Usual service and oil change every 3000miles. When something breaks or it goes bang it will be fixed. Obviously Steven's engine building skills and mapping by Paul help!!
I have the same philosophy with my hillclimb WRX. It has been running strong since 2005 and I may open it up later in the year as I am starting to lag behind 'newer' engine combos. It has been on the same open deck 2l block since new (1997) and for a number of years 2000-2005 was running over 2bar with the GT35. Work was done by TRP in OZ, who do not have the best reputation for reliability. Has done over 80,000 miles.
23 February 2011, 04:18 PM
#144
David, that's a fair comment. I only asked as it must always be a difficult issue in the tuners world.
Tidgy, you were passenger or you drove the cars mate? I mentioned it because I have driven other Scoobs with similar power levels both classic & new age but the delivery and feel was very different.
Iain, when they built the engine I collected the car at 400. The expenditure was then focused on the car, EXE-TC suspension, AP 330 6 pot brakes, hydraulic triple plate OSG clutch etc.
Car was then returned to RCM & went twisted on the turbo.
Had car mapped by Paul (Zens) and now running at 540 on 20% Meths & 500 on VPower only.
No replacements of any parts other than failed component (Map Sensor).
Running costs throughout is a service every 6-7K or I have a service & fluid check after ragging it on an open pit track day.
Regarding a "refresh", I enquired at RCM about this and they said, no need.
Like I have been telling everyone for 3 years, buy the best, you will pay once. Achieve big power using cheaper parts, you will never stop spending mate.
I see lots of it happening around me every year and all the disappointment that goes with it.
Tidgy, you were passenger or you drove the cars mate? I mentioned it because I have driven other Scoobs with similar power levels both classic & new age but the delivery and feel was very different.
Iain, when they built the engine I collected the car at 400. The expenditure was then focused on the car, EXE-TC suspension, AP 330 6 pot brakes, hydraulic triple plate OSG clutch etc.
Car was then returned to RCM & went twisted on the turbo.
Had car mapped by Paul (Zens) and now running at 540 on 20% Meths & 500 on VPower only.
No replacements of any parts other than failed component (Map Sensor).
Running costs throughout is a service every 6-7K or I have a service & fluid check after ragging it on an open pit track day.
Regarding a "refresh", I enquired at RCM about this and they said, no need.
Like I have been telling everyone for 3 years, buy the best, you will pay once. Achieve big power using cheaper parts, you will never stop spending mate.
I see lots of it happening around me every year and all the disappointment that goes with it.
23 February 2011, 04:43 PM
#145
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I would also like to champion Alan Jeffery aka EnginTuner.co.uk
I have recently taken delivery of a serious upgrade which made 530php on normal Shell, with over 500lbs/ft torque.
The reason I used enginetuner is that like some others are a one stop solution, I tell them what I want and they deliver within the agreed price.
I have had a forged 2.1 stroker with twisted setup, under bonnet swirl pot large fuel pump 1000cc injectors, parallel fuel mod, Syvecs, clutch...... the list goes on.
We even made 560bhp with a splash of Meth!!!!
All the work was done by Alan and his staff and what I like is that fact if something does go wrong I can poke them in the eye to fix it.
They did a previous build for me which again achieved exactly what I was after again all within budget.
I will give a full write-up soon.
Thumps up for Engine Tuner (CALL THEM)
I have recently taken delivery of a serious upgrade which made 530php on normal Shell, with over 500lbs/ft torque.
The reason I used enginetuner is that like some others are a one stop solution, I tell them what I want and they deliver within the agreed price.
I have had a forged 2.1 stroker with twisted setup, under bonnet swirl pot large fuel pump 1000cc injectors, parallel fuel mod, Syvecs, clutch...... the list goes on.
We even made 560bhp with a splash of Meth!!!!
All the work was done by Alan and his staff and what I like is that fact if something does go wrong I can poke them in the eye to fix it.
They did a previous build for me which again achieved exactly what I was after again all within budget.
I will give a full write-up soon.
Thumps up for Engine Tuner (CALL THEM)
23 February 2011, 05:11 PM
#146
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I would also like to champion Alan Jeffery aka EnginTuner.co.uk
I have recently taken delivery of a serious upgrade which made 530php on normal Shell, with over 500lbs/ft torque.
The reason I used enginetuner is that like some others are a one stop solution, I tell them what I want and they deliver within the agreed price.
I have had a forged 2.1 stroker with twisted setup, under bonnet swirl pot large fuel pump 1000cc injectors, parallel fuel mod, Syvecs, clutch...... the list goes on.
We even made 560bhp with a splash of Meth!!!!
All the work was done by Alan and his staff and what I like is that fact if something does go wrong I can poke them in the eye to fix it.
They did a previous build for me which again achieved exactly what I was after again all within budget.
I will give a full write-up soon.
Thumps up for Engine Tuner (CALL THEM)
I have recently taken delivery of a serious upgrade which made 530php on normal Shell, with over 500lbs/ft torque.
The reason I used enginetuner is that like some others are a one stop solution, I tell them what I want and they deliver within the agreed price.
I have had a forged 2.1 stroker with twisted setup, under bonnet swirl pot large fuel pump 1000cc injectors, parallel fuel mod, Syvecs, clutch...... the list goes on.
We even made 560bhp with a splash of Meth!!!!
All the work was done by Alan and his staff and what I like is that fact if something does go wrong I can poke them in the eye to fix it.
They did a previous build for me which again achieved exactly what I was after again all within budget.
I will give a full write-up soon.
Thumps up for Engine Tuner (CALL THEM)
23 February 2011, 06:37 PM
#149
As for more success you've got to be kidding right?
Take your blinkers off and take a proper close look at the stuff they turn out. It's flawless.
Gobstopper aside which really is a work of art go have a look at an RCM built car and compare that to something that A.N Other tuning company has built. I guarantee that nothing will be out of place and it will all be incredibly tidy.
I know I may seem to come across as a it of an RCM fan boy but I've dealt with a good few tuners and some of which are big names on here and RCM have never once got it wrong for me. I cant say that about some of the others ive dealt with.
Admittedly the prices on some items are ridiculously expensive but you just know that their products are tried and tested and their workmanship is second to none.
If I didn't enjoy doing my own builds so much and I had the money I'd have them do my work above all of the of the others.
Last edited by dazdavies; 23 February 2011 at 06:38 PM.
23 February 2011, 07:05 PM
#150
I take it you're well into 5th going over the quarter mile? off the line cleanly and hammer the 60ft time and first 1/8 mile will see you well on the way i think. problem is it's a lot harder to do than you think. i can get the terminals ok (round 130 - 135) but i still can't manage to sneak into the tens
time for toyo 888s or Micky Thompsons on 15" rims me thinks. then i will start to worry about the driveshafts breaking.
It's only money i suppose
time for toyo 888s or Micky Thompsons on 15" rims me thinks. then i will start to worry about the driveshafts breaking.
It's only money i suppose
