When the back end does go is it progressive and catchable, or a sudden 'heart-in-the-mouth' moment?

 

Ah sh*t I don't believe it...here we fu%king go again!!! No Rockerlad it won't!!!!!!! I had this argument 2 weeks ago on a monster thread about the VTS and proved a 306 GTI-6 owner wrong both at Crail and with my Crail times. They are damb near identicle from 0-90mph (don't know what happens after that but suspect the GTI would begin to pull a lead).

Sorry everyone, couldn't resist!!

Pitty this wasn't posted a few weeks ago when I was in your neck of the woods for Sunderland v Liverpool where I could have further proven my point. BTW that city of yours rocks for the birds

Er dang! Just noticed you have the Rallye! Point taken, it should be quicker than the VTS but it won't be by much cause frankly the Rallye isn't much quicker than the GTI.

Incidently, someone in Sunderland has a Clio 172 with a huge sticker on the back saying 172 (takes up whole of the rear window) OMG how sad is that!!

 

What mods you got in your VTS then?? 120 bhp vs 167 bhp doesn't seem like a contest on paper. I know the VTS has a fairly impressive 0-60 time because of it's gearing( 7.2 secs i believe ), but a standard Rallye will do it in 6.9, surly the extra horses will be more apparent in the 0-90/100 times.

Cracking cars VTS's btw!

 

Blip,

when it goes it is very progressive and predictable

 

When will you VTS boys learn?
Quicker doesn't just mean 0-60 or 0-100.
For the record (both standard)

VTS is 0-60 in 7.2 0-100 in 22.3
GTi-6 is 0-60 7.4 0-100 in 21.1
Rallye is 0-60 6.9 0-100 in 19.9

I'm sorry to say a well driven 306 in either guise will just munch your standard VTS. Remeber that we're talking about small differences here. The thing that really sets the 306 apart from the Saxo is the fact that it feels safer, is more fun as a drivers car, has a great 6 speed box and doesn't have an image problem ;-)

 

Good point, very well put!

 

I have the MKII VTS which is widely believed to have nearer 130bhp – can anyone confirm that for sure?? My car is completely unmodified, other than the fuels I put in it (SUL & Mobile 1). Frankly I don’t understand why the VTS does so well in a straight line - It only weighs 935kg but the gears are by no means silly short – 80mph = 4000rpm (5th). But despite the relatively small power output it is even all the way with the 306 GTI to 90mph and I doubt it would get much different until beyond 115mph because I know the Saxo still pulls very well until such speeds - not on the road of course I know it’s very easy to underestimate it looking at the paper stats but for some reason she flys on the road – I managed to beat Bluenoses 172 at Crail which has a power advantage of at least 52bhp and isn’t much heavier!! In fairness, the Clio posted a faster time on the day by 0.1 of a second but I think I’d expect a lot more of a difference given the difference in power.

So in short I don’t know why the VTS is so quick – it probably shouldn’t be but it is The only hot-hatch I would consider going to the hassle of selling mines for is the CTR, but I have reservations about its looks and figured I might as well go the whole hog and get a scooby

BTW I now understand why you lot in England particularly hate the VTS – I see another MKII VTS about once every 2-3 weeks if I’m lucky! I saw three in 5 minutes in Newcastle!! So you’re all right, she is the Nova of the south!

The VTS doesn’t suffer from an image problem at all up here (unless you mod it to look stupid). I’ve never had anything but admiring glances and comments. I’m sorry to say, but I feel perfectly safe in the Saxo! Safety has got very little to do with the car and everything to do with the driver – the only time I’ve relied on the car is when the ABS bailed me out once Can’t argue with the 6 speed box but the box in mines is quite sweet – better than I expected. Also I find the VTS very enjoyable to drive, you can chuck it around all over the place and it just goes where you point the nose – or tail if your into that kinda thing A well driven VTS and GTI-6 would be inseparable – sorry but that is a fact!

 

Where did you get those times from???

I disagree, I have them as...

Peugeot 306 Rallye:

Power: 167bhp
0-30: 3.4secs
0-60: 7.8secs
0-100: 20.7secs
1/4 Mile: 16.3secs @ 90mph


Peugeot 306 GTi-6:

Power: 167bhp
0-30: 3.0secs
0-60: 7.9secs
0-100: 21.5secs
1/4 Mile: 16.4secs @ 87mph


Citroen Saxo VTS:

Power: 120bhp
0-30: 2.6secs
0-60: 7.7secs
0-100: 22.4secs
1/4 Mile: 16.1secs @ 88mph


So... it turns out that the Saxo is indeed faster to a 1/4 mile, but then looses out on top end due to a lack of power. But basically, up to about 90mph (or flat out in 3rd) the little Saxo will be in front and how often do you reach those speeds on B Roads???

If you don't believe me check them yourself -

http://www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals.htm

 

Check out the knowledge on www.evo.co.uk for the real times, seems the faster times are the more accurate.

People hate the Saxo beacuse of the Max Power Muppet image it has. Everyone I see seems to be driven by a baseball cap wearing spotty Oik.

 

LOL

Hence why I don't have one!

 

VTS image just isn't that bad in Scotland. Most of the VTS drivers I see are like myself, aged about 23, well dressed and no cap. The VTR is the plebs car with hundreds of cap wearing spotty kids behind the wheel and most are heavily modified. To make matters worse they spend all their time telling you how they raced a VTS and it stuggled to pull away and bollocks like that. I actually used to believe them till I got to Crail

No point in us thrashing out more VTS/GTI/Rallye stats cause that, at the end of the day, is just pub talk! I took on a GTI-6 at Crail and was very pleased to achieve neck and neck acceleration to 90mph - nuff said.

In the interest of avoiding this tread becoming the VTS thread II The Saxo Strikes Back, I should say that no GTI car is going to avoid a potentially dodgy image. I've seen plebs driving 306's, 172's, Nova's, etc. I would say though that the GTI seems to appeal generally to the more mature mid-20's guy looking for family practicalities and comforts, but also some fun and entertainment. Like the VTS/106 GTI, top car despite it's age. You'll also note that most mags still rate the 106 GTI/VTS and 306 GTI as the most entertaining hatches money can buy even today! Mind you, in 5 years time they will probaby say the same of the CTR, 172, etc.

 

blip,

I ran a company 306GTi-6 for over 40K a few years back. Absolutely no problems.

Fantastic car to drive, with no sacrifice to comfort either.

As for tail-happiness, yep you can get the back end out, but I found it all very safe, predictable and fun

Only downsides were that I found it very hard not too drive it fast ALL the time, it just begged to be thrashed. Oh, and I had a yellow one so got nicked lots

Cheers
Tim

 

Saxoboy - the only reason this is turning into a Saxo thread is because you don't stop talking about your Saxo

The pug is a true driver's car. That's why my brother's would kill me round a race circuit, and I'm rear wheel drive with 310 brake!

Awesome motor.

 

This is all turning to Tosh.
Anyone knows that 0-60 times depend on many different variables.
If you're talking about a race then it's nearly all down to reaction time and how willing you are to forget about your synchromesh and crash the gearbox.
As an Impreza owner I know I can achieve blindingly quick 0-60 times but at the expense of clutch wear/damage and strain on other important/expensive components.
Saxo's in the UK represent the new XR2 youth if you like. Not an image that anyone over the age of 25 would ever wish to be associated with. If I was still 21 and could get a years free insurance then I may well join the Saxo club myself. I was a member of the 306 XSi club as 306s were built in Coventry the insurance was generally lower than similar 'Hot Hatches' of the day (group 13 versus Golf GTi grp 15).
The Saxo is a great car. The 306 in either guise with a highly tuned 167bhp engine with 70% of mechanical components replaced compared to a compared to an XSi is a special car.
The Saxo need not be compared to a 306 as it is a different 'family' of cars. It should be compared to the 106GTi which is well regarded as some of the most fun driving to be had in a FWD car. Who cars about straight line speed against driving experience? That's why the Ford Puma is one of the great drivers cars around, 0-60 whatever....driving exp. ;-)

 

I owned a GTi-6 for 2 1/2 years from new before getting my scooby. My mate bought it off me and he too has never had any problems with it.

They are a great car. Great handling, brakes and exceptionally good on a long run (used to do Cheshire to London on a regular basis).

If you've got small feet then go for a Saxo (pedals are close together) Nice cars the VTS, but I would have another Pug any day!


Beakie

Remember your home is at risk if you don't keep up the payments!!

 

I disagree RichardPON. The 306 and VTS might be good and fun hot-hatches but they are not true drivers cars. Don’t forget they were primarily designed to cart and number of people and their luggage around in relative safety and comfort. The fact they are fast and handle well is a bonus but at the end of the day they are both just hatchbacks. Even the Scooby can’t claim to be a true drivers cars, it’s just fast as hell and has loads of grip – hell, the wagons were designed with Labradors in mind

Did it ever occur to your that your brother might be a better driver

 

A scooby can't claim to be a good drivers car

Then what, prey tell, can?

 

You see that is just a bad understanding. The guy said 'pure' not 'good'. Slight difference there I think!

 

Sorry, I meant 'true'!

 

Even so!! So its not a true drivers car.....what is?

depends on who the driver is........

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 4/25/2002 4:35:25 PM]

 

Wouldn't know I've never driven anything other than normalish road cars. I'm told the Elise is a pretty pure/true/amazing/whatever experience. I guess such a car has to be totally uncomprimsed with loads of feeback and adjustability and obviously be quick. They type of car where your sure it read your mind every time you change direction!

 

Definition of a true drivers car-one that the average driver will crash the first time they go fast round a bend

 

LOL - Your probably right!

 

hi all
just to add some fuel! and i'm chaeting only slightly by hi-jacking the thread i might be selling my mint 306 cabriolet soon, which has the 2 litre engine!!! not the same as the 306 gti i think but enough to get it moving!!!

 

I had one, but traded up to a Integra Type R, best thing I ever did. They are cheaper now so could be in your price range,
have a look if you like http://www.e4lution.com click on "my cars"

 

Blip,
I have a 306XSI for sale if your interested. Mint condition, 1996, Under 35k miles. lowered, superchip, alloys, K+N induction kit 150+bhp Ecosse grill. Looking for offers around £5300
Excellent handling as the XSI had passive rear wheel steer.

Steven

 

Having just signed up I noticed this thread.

I own a black 306Rallye and its so much fun, so its a little tail happy but thats all part of the experience.

I used to own a 106GTI and there isn't really any comparison as they are in different leagues, the 106 is sharper a little more hardcore but the 306 is just a grown ups 106. I love it any anyone thinking of buying one shouldn't hesitate.

 

Wagging back end is not rubbish...I got punted off the road by one of these (306 Xsi) a few years ago. They handle very well up to a point, but backing off on a bumpy road can catch you out.

I remember Revs magazine photographing one doing exactly the same and putting it on the front cover.

106Gti is a far better handling car - same pointy feeling, but the back end slides much more progressively.

Both make Scoobs feel like they suffer from terminal understeer when jumping from one to the other, particularly on part/trailing throttle.

 

Saxo Boy,

that wasnt me by any chance you "almost" had at Crail? Blaze Yellow with tv? You were on you own, black vts? bout a month ago?

Ryan

 

Probably, didn't see the TV but it was the blaze yellow and the driver told me it was standard (think he had a passenger). You crossed the line a half car or so in front cause I smoked the start - doh!