harvey

iTrader: (48)

I do wonder how much experience of driving modern diesels some of you guys have. Any Subaru I have owned will struggle to do a little over 300 miles on a tank whereas our slightly modified Vectra 1.9 CDTi SRi which left the factory at 150/236 ft.lbs is now 282 bhp/388 ft.lbs for very little effort and expenditure and will still do between 500 and 600 miles to a tank. It also keeps up with UK STi/WRX and is faster that some other Imprezas I have come across on my travels. I enjoy my Subarus which have upwards of 422 bhp but the Vectra is the car of choice if any long distance travel is involved. Even in standard form there would be no difference in journey time in a long cross country trip (unless you want to drive in a manner that will get you locked up regardless of what car you are driving).

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

I have ran 4 diesels 106 back in 1196 yes I was poor then !
Averaged 60 mpg over 3 years

Rover touring 1.8 diesel
averaged 48-50 overv5 years

Then the skoda octavia 1.8
Which averaged 55mpg over 6 years 78k miles from new
No problems with any engines

Then my wrxd had it 22 months now and got 22 k on clock
Averaging 46 mpg as i dont do many ,motorway and long journeys any more but have had over 50 mpg on long 200 mile journeys
No problems as yet

That is my 15 years diesel car record
Blue wrxd 500 to the tank
Green wagon classic turbo 250 to the tank
And no real difference in performance with them

I was going to get a 330s or STi and did a lot of research and over five years there was going to be nearly £9000 difference in fuel and running costs car tax and insurance but I'm aware of new issues with diesel filters and injectors so will keep you informed over the next 3 years

Maz

iTrader: (34)

With respect Harvey I've driven quite a number of both performance petrol and diesel cars. Whilst I readily admit modern 'disiesel' engines have their relative merits, for me there's nothing quite like wringing a decent petrol driven motor. Yes you're all banging on about economy and 'real world driving' but, the satisfaction I get from dialling in eight thousand revs and banging in the next gear I'll forego the economy. It's a very subjective issue and in the austere times of today diesels may well be a compromise for some. However for me the noise, revvability and response of petrol will be king. Civility does not mean sterility.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I never realised you were blessed with Scottish blood John.

Einstein : I am all for different opinions and it would be dull if we all wanted the same thing.
None of my three Subarus are driven to 8,000 rpm because you make measurably quicker progress changing up before the red line. Unless your car is substantially different you will find that earlier upshifts than 8,ooo rpm will greatly improve your 0-120 time or whatever. Check it out for yourself.
I am not banging on about economy simply pointing out that any of my Subarus may struggle to do 300 miles on a tank, especially when heavily loaded whereas the modified diesle Vectra fully loaded will do 500-600 miles to a tank and journey times are exactly the same.
Whatever turns you on mate. I probably get the same satisfaction from out accelerating Audi TT, BMWs and what have you in a lowly Vectra deisle. and only earlier this week a guy in a UK STi was clearly perplexed when I stuck to his tail like glue despite his driving antics. I also enjoy the fun to be had from my Subarus but..............................

muzzler

Got a Mazda 2.2 185...ok with a bit of fun to drive, but no real comparison with my 286bhp WRX

You have to watch the fuel consumption on the Mazda as well...claimed nearly 50mpg...only get 45..the DPF kills fuel economy everytime it kicks in.

andy.downes

iTrader: (1)

I feel I've opened a can of worms here but I can't help putting my oar in again.

I just feel for the slight performance gains in the Subaru, the cost far far out weigh the actual domination over 'inferior' brands. I've been speaking to a colleague of mine that suggests that torque is what I'm missing. Everyday driving is much more about torque than stretching it's legs.

Back to my point at the beginning. Am I defending the Impreza a bit too much?

It's subjective as I often feel my father in law is driving faster in any car, he just seems to get more speed out of anything? So, do I need to change my driving dynamics? I drive a 2.5 WRX, what pedal position do I need to adopt? I've noticed with Impreza's of yore (I've owned a few now, and an Evo) that gentle feeding in the loud pedal is key. Maybe I need to be a bit more aggressive with the accelerator.

Does it come down to poor driving skill? Any thoughts?

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Who gives a f*ck how many miles per tank your car can or can't do. If you need to use your car every day for work etc then don't buy a sodding Impreza.
People who winge and whine about fuel cost in a performance car do my head in.
I drive a diesel van day to day as I have to. I also own an STI that will probably do no more than 15 to the gallon. But to be honest I couldn't give a toss if it only did 5 to the gallon. I own it because of the way it makes me feel, the grin factor, the excitement I feel when I plant my foot. My second car is a 4.0 Jeep grand Cherokee, which does about 17 to the gallon but provides a very safe environment for my wife and baby girl. Yes they Are expensive to run, maintain and insure but so what. Life is short so enjoy the time you have rather than sit at home worrying about the fact your only getting 300 miles to a tank. Christ, you could be dead tomorrow.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

£650? I dont think so.

paulbu

Harvey says,

'our slightly modified Vectra 1.9 CDTi SRi which left the factory at 150/236 ft.lbs is now 282 bhp/388 ft.lbs for very little effort and expenditure'.

Surely that should read 182 bhp and 288 lbs ft. If not then there's little doubt that every diesel car manufacturer in the world would like to know the secret of extracting a further 132 bhp from a 1.9 lump with little expense and effort.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Nice attitude mate! Plus I don't think anyone is whinging about fuel economy in an Impreza, it's a comparison of performance between the two, plus mentioning the bonus of good MPG.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

And how can you compare a diesel vectra to an impreza. Yes your car may well be fast and do a million miles to a gallon but does it excite you, really.
A very close pal of mine recently sold his year old 335D Msport. It had been mapped by Benston motors and I have to admit, it was a fast car. Made 310 BHP and a mountain of torque. (I will also state that my STI made his car look bloody ridiculous one evening, on a private road ofcourse).
He let me borrow his car for a few days before he sold it, fast smooth power, great fuel consumption and also as boring as he'll to drive. Not once did it get my adrenaline pumping. Not once.
It all comes down to what you want from a car. If you need to travel from A to B, cover many miles and are not concerned with driving pleasure then yea, buy yourself a lovely vectra diesel.
On the other hand, if you are a petrol head and want to enjoy your car and enjoy the driving experience then buy what you like and forget about fuel costs.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I just like to hear the engine sing. I'm not **** about shifting at the optimum point, it's more fun letting the revs rise and rise. As MattyB says it's a therapeutic release after a stressful day at work. I'm not deriding diesels per se, I just question them as true performance cars. Clattery idle, limited rev range, and above all lacking that crispness and melody that a petrol engine offers.

Carlh

Wow. 388 ft.lbs

Ive spent several thousand pounds on my WRX to get it to 365lb per ft and 312hp but if I can get even more than that out of a 1.9 diesel, 50mpg as well, suck me sideways......

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Interesting as my Daily Runner is a Pug 307 diesel ... engine warning light came on t'other day with the "anti pollution" warning! Apparently it's a well known error associated with the filter & most reckon that Peugot should have recalled the cars albeit they now charge a small fortune to fix them

TX.

Luckyscoob

iTrader: (2)

Interesting to hear about the diesel running costs. I bought my wife a 55 plate zafira CDTi 120, which to be fair considerng the size of the car, performs quite well and is obviously good on fuel, BUT...., it has been the most unreliable car I have ever owned, kills dpf filters, kills altenators I have now learned that it is all because she doesnt do many miles in it. It was towed in to the garage 5 times in the first 6 months of owning it. Even Vauxhall have said the diesels arent very good unless they are getting plenty of use!. I for one would not have another diesel unless I was doing a higher mileage, in which case then the fuel economy wins hands down.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I'd put some money away for when the fuel pump goes.
This is the other side of the arguement, overall running costs.

Luckyscoob

iTrader: (2)

You know what matey, the poxy thing is buzzing intermitently already. I suspect if I kept it a while it would be a fuel pump and turbo too as that thing whines all the time. It sounds like a bloody ambulance when its cold.. I wont be keeping it long!!!

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Todays performance diesels seem to have sacrificed reliability for performance in my opinion. Okay my 2.2 cdti had some poke and could do 45+mpg but I probably spent more fixing it in 9 months than I spent in 8 years having to fix my imprezas.

Maybe it's just vauxhall but my brother just got his vectra back on the road, only to have the pump go on his van. And his van has not long been out of the garage after trying to find a mystery electrical gremlin.

Even on my a4 I was having to clear the gunk out of the egr valve every year to stop it running like a bag of spanners.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

We have covered 77k in the wifes 1.6 petrol Zafira in 5 years. Other than routine servicing and 4 tyres its cost 10 for 2 10 amp fuses and a number plate bulb. Car is 55 plate, 105 bhp
A work colleague had a diesel one and suffered the same issues as you.
The petrol one returns 35 on average 42 on a run .
I don't know how that compared to the diesel.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Yikes! Get rid now.
The fuel pump isn't exactly cheap either!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The fuel pumps cheap, you want to see the price of the abs module

Tony

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I ran an Astra CDTI 150 with a 'Green' Tunning Box from DTUK and had great results; near 200bhp. It would out accelerate a standard blob WRX from 40mph - much to the owners displeasure. lol

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Like I said, 282 bhp and 388 lbs ft at a recent rolling road day when it was head and shoulders above all other Astra/Vectra variants. I think the nearest performer was 240 bhp.
The RR day will probably appear in Total Vauxhall in the next few months and another tuning publication has shown interest in the car.
All this has been achieved for not a lot of expenditure. Do you want the detailed mod list on here?

There is no secret to getting this performance. Manufacturers build cars to do 250,000 miles in all types of conditions and countries with varying fuel and have to meet global emmission requirements and economy is more important to them than headline figures.

Glynmitch

Yeah stick up a spec list Harvey and what it would cost a customer to have the same work done to their Vectra/Astra. I'm quite interested in this thread

fingerfatty

who would of thought you can compare a v****al diesel to a impreza
,sad times indeed

Glynmitch

I don't think a comparison is being made here. I think it's more the along the lines of Harvey trying to explain what can actually be done to improve a diesels performance.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I have three Classic Wagons, 422-600bhp. All good fun. The wife has a Vectra and out of interest I wanted to see what was possible. 199 bhp and 335 lbs ft on Scooby Clinics rollers came with very little effort or expense. I got the bug, my interest in tuning diesles was aroused and my wife now has a Vectra that can hold its own with a UK STi and still do twice the miles per tank.
I realise there are a lot of sceptics and "experts" but this is exactly the same reaction I got x years ago when nobody had achieved 400 bhp and I said it should be a doddle. I was relatively new to Subarus then. The experts told me it would need a closed deck block, it would be undrivable as a daily driver and engine life would be short. I knew that was a load of bollocks and said so and went on to produced over 400 bhp in short order and went on to nearly 600 bhp with Bob Rawles assistance and support, on race fuel a few months later. Today 400 bhp is nothing.
I will put up the spec tonight.

PS. For long distance travel and load carrying the Vectra has to be the sensible choice. The Subarus are exilerating on cross country blasts, track days or drag strip runs but they are two different cars and serve completely different purposes.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ Does it really pull away though Harvey as surely you're changing up at c4k rpm yet the STi will pull to 7k or so? I can understand how you might initially "get away" but I'd expect the scoob to catch up after a fashion or indeed keep up / be faster if in the correct gear ...

IMHO a comparison needs to be apples vs apples though so as your diesel is tuned to c400ft/torque the comparable Impreza should have c400hp

TX.

Luckyscoob

iTrader: (2)

In hindsight mate, thats what I should of bought. At the time I had the choice between a 1.6 Life zaf on a 56 plate and my 1.9CDTi Design on a 55 plate for the same money. I went with the older car as it was a better spec (half leather, smoked glass, 6 speed box, nice alloys etc...) and to drive felt quite a bit quicker than the 1.6. Our diesel does 55/60mpg on a run and kicks around 40/42MPG most of the time. I should have thought it thru, that its only the Mrs car, she doesnt care how fast it is, but the man in me took over!!. To anyone buying one now: BUY A PETROL ONE!!!

andy.downes

iTrader: (1)

Seems from a few people that diesel Vectra's are shocking in terms of reliability. The Jags I talked about have never gone wrong and are in standard spec but pull like a train. Much more usable power on a day today basis. The only thing stopping me is the whole 'club' atmosphere, the "what car of you got" debate that I always win. I'm thinking a Mondeo ST with a tweek here and there will be much more fun most of the time.