I hope John is OK and I have to say I have also been in the car with him and trust his driving totally. This accident could happen to anyone and they do not have to be going sideways for it to happen. I was at a club89 day at Knockhill with the then touring car driver Tim Sugden driving my car and he did exactly the same thing at the same corner in my FWD CRX so it even happens to the best of us. The only way to learn the limits of your car safely (and legally) is to do it on a track day.

70 mph down duffus is not fast I would do that in the old oil burner..........

Hope you are all ok John and co

Graham

ps this is not meant to get at the post but just to add my opinion so don't take it the wrong way....

 

Stevenson - hope hes not talking about you - I have to agree you drive like a **** round knockhill....I loved it Definately the right place to do it.

Martin

 

John,

Sorry 2 hear about u r off m8 but hey like u say bud cars can b fixed As long as u & passanger were ok thats the main thing.

I`m gonna add my (considerable) weight to the dispute as well, for the benifit of any1 that hasn`t figured out what the things on each side of their heads are for :P Any1 who knows me or has been in a mota with me knows I`ll b the 1st person 2 tell u if u are driving like a ****. Bearing that in mind at the last SIDC day
I was out with John for a few passanger laps at full pelt & I`d happily go on track again with him. IMHO he knows the limits of the car and just as importantly he knows the limits of his driving
ability. If anyone felt that the driving style adopted by him was inapropriate then we can only be glad they don`t drive scoobs or evo`s as they would in effect be a rolling roadblock on track

As has been said previously "stick to what u know"

And John hope 2 c u @ the nxt 1 back in full flight

L8r peebs
Pete

 

thanks for all the support I have recieved on this thread .

was I driving like a nutter-yes,I see the bends as the fun bit and the straights as the boring bit.to me it's the only safe place to push a performance car to the limit.

was I driving like a ****-I personally think not.I only gave "sport" to two cars last night.Sam in the evo and Andy in the skyliner.the reason for this is that we have all done loads of track days together,they know my driving style through the bends and I respect and trust them enough for some close fun.for all the other cars I either tidied up and pulled away from before sliding again,or let them past as soon as possible if it was obvious that they were faster or as fast.my side-ways style costs me a lot of time and I actually let most cars past.

basically for those in the dark,I was giving Andy(skyliner) some sport,not for the first time that night and I was set up all wrong for the chicane,I was too far to the left on approach.I really needed to hit the brakes,short and hard to lose a bit of speed but I felt the skyliner was too close and he had the correct line.had I braked I'm sure our cars would have come together,my o/s/r to his n/s/f so I just went for it.as soon as I turned in I knew I would be struggling for track after the right hand exit.the car went side ways and I ran out of track,the back wheels hit the grass and started passing the fronts so I lifted off briefly to bring the nose round and then nailed the accelerator again trying to hold the by now all wheels on grass slide.according to a marshall,(I think it was anyway) I held it for 70yards.all I know is that I was possibly just past half way point,up the straight when the n/s/r caught the tyre wall spinning the nose round bouncing me off .

in two years of track days I have never spun but it was my second time on the grass .the first was at the hairpin in the wet and I wimped out and took to the large grass triangle after witnessing a few off's that touched the tyre wall.

everything considered I think it could have been much worse.the main thing was to make sure chris was okay,then myself and then the car.the car will be repaired and I will be back but when, I do not know.it's expensive enough without this sort of thing happening,but I knew one day I would have an off with my technique.you think you will be prepared for it,trust me your not.possibly for some strange reason I knew it was going to happen as I had put a handful of cable ties and a roll of wide black tape in the car before leaving.

one thing I did learn last night,which should serve as a lesson to us all,is that if you are not happy with something sort it.I had said to a few folk last night that my tyres were too soft(expected it to be wet)and the side walls were flexing too much causing an almost bounce/whipping sensation coming out of the slides.I had even got a shot of a foot pump to "up" the pressures but it was taking ages so gave up,thinking I would just drive around this problem.it may have not stopped my off happening but I will always be thinking "what if" I had adjusted the pressures .

oh and bluenose,do not worry if you do go on track,I'll keep away from you,fwd cars need a fair bit of room through duffus dip too,you get a nice oversteer right at the top with a nice flick half way down to oversteer left .if you do get it wrong i will even stop and say "it's a **** ain't it"

 

 

T-uk I was perfectly happy sitting next to Sam following you it was great to watch. These incidents happen and rather on the track with tire walls that on the open road.

I'd be happy to sit next to you on the next track day. In fact if you hadn't had that incident then I would have been the next person to ask for a lift round.

Hope you get the car back rolling again.

 

I was at KH last night aswell. The standard of driving by all was tremendous.

What happenned last night could happen to anyone who ventures past the pit lane exit however fast/slow they are travelling. The key element to remember with the accident last night,it is that due to Johns expertise behind the wheel that Chris and John were able to walk away COMPLETELY unharmed.

As you can see from the extensive replies to this topic, there are many people who know John and have experienced his exciting driving style, and everyone of them (myself included) would have no hesitation in getting back in the car again with him.

FINAL THOUGHT FOR THE PEOPLE THINK THAT JOHN DESERVED WHAT HAPPENNED:-

When you (Bluenose172 etc) are driving through a 30mph zone, and your doing 40+mph, do you consider this safe (don't lie now and insult our intelligence by saying you DON'T do this). That is the proper deffinition of driving like a ****, because a pedestrian could walk out in front of you and have very little chance of coming out the other end with anything but serious injuries, maybe even worse.

John is extremely safe on the road, as a result of him going to trackdays, he doesn't have any need or urge to drive fast on public road, WHY? because on the track, it is by far the SAFEST place to drive fast for ALL concerned.

PS. the only ***** on the trackdays are the ones who appear at Hot Hatch days and try to spin the cars 720deg going down Duffis Dip, complete the lap and try again, and believe me, I HAVE seen them do this.

By the way, tyres can squeel at 15mph, it depends on the make of tyre and the type of road surface!

 

**** me, Stage 1's alive !!

 

John,

Phunny i was thinkin that as well, but he`s bin keepin a low profile since AVA last year (told ya Martin, elephants never 4get m8 )

L8r
Pete

 

Lo All

Stage 1 nae we don't know any 1 of that name (unless u have sumefine to do wiff AVA ???) glad to see u r back m8

John glad u are ok m8.but it does prove 1 thing that we have both said m8,u r prepaired to drive round the track and if something goes wrong then it's only the tyre wall u hit rather than a tree a car or a person,but on the other hand this prove's the reason i don't want to do Knockhill in the Cat m8 It could have been worse m8 remember that round bail of silage at CRAIL

Every 1 2 there own

Hope every thing goes ok with getting the car fixed,was there much damage m8.

Dougie+Diana

[Edited by dougies549 - 4/19/2002 10:24:19 PM]

 

I drove to KH with Bluenose and my pal with the silver Cupra in convoy, and I can assure you we did not drive dangerously at all and never did 40+ in the 30's.

 

Jap Cars Mad,

You have mail!!!

 

Dougie,trust me,if this had happened out on the road there is NO way I would be typing this.even at half the speed on the road into a tree or bricked wall,would have been enough to cause a **** load more damage.good years,bridgestone,pirelli,michelin,toyo's etc stop you quick but real walls,buses and trees stop you quicker and harder .

given the car a tidy up this morning and wash before getting a few quotes.all things considered I am starting to feel a lot luckier now.the bumpers clipped back in place and mud removal have helped.

 

T-uk

Sorry to hear about this mate. As you say, better into a tyre wall than a brick wall. Then again, it'll be better if you hadn't crashed at all!

Seriously, I think you'll get your car back in no-time and be ready for your next track day.

 

T-uk

looks not too bad
bodywork is made of tin-foil anyway

what exhaust were u running... sounded great

 

T-UK
Join the club. I bounced my car of the barriers at Kames two weeks ago, my own fault, bad driving. It went in to the bodyshop today. I was pretty p155ed of at the time. But its only metal, dam expensive metal I admit. Like you I am also glad it did not happen on the road, as it would have been a lot worse. I might even learn something from it, you never know.
Hope the damage is not to bad.
Regards
George.

PS anyone know someone who could restitch a seat seam burst by an airbag?

 

John,

Sorry to hear about your incident - I know how you must be feeling!

Still, at least you and your passenger are in one piece and the damage doesn't look too bad and can be repaired. You'll be back on track in no time but maybe not quite as confident for the first few laps. It took me about 25-30 laps at the last SIDC trackday to get back my confidence and by the end of the day was enjoying the driving as much as I always had although I was *ultra* careful to make sure that I concentrated 100% regardless of the speed I was doing.

Regards,

Neil.

 

John,

as Neil just said, the damage doesn't look too bad, and hopefully won't be as expensive to fix as first thought.

I'm sure you'll have it all A1 in time for our next event in June.

Cheers

John

 

Bluenose172 I am merely testing to see how you react to being in the firing line, for something that you do not deserve just like what you did to the driver of the blue Scoob.

 

Bad luck john as people have said earlier it could have been worse. Id just like to add i have also been out many times with John and wouldnt hesitate in going out with him again.

Ian

 

T-uk

Unfortunately could not make this Knockhill session, combination of an operation and a head gasket failure.

However, my last session at KH, all seven hours of it, was spent much of the time in company with yourself and Sam. Did not know who you were until you came over and introduced yourself, but it was an experience watching you drive that car around the circuit, and good fun picking out a place to pass you.

However, it was me that put my car into the mud that day, cos I was having too much fun, and stayed out too long.

Take no notice of the tosser element, if you have never spun or gone off on a circuit, you are wasting your time, as you are not trying hard enough.

The secret is to try and keep it just below that point.

You did not hurt yourself, and like many of us, your car is repairable.

I am doing the rest of the SIDC days organised by JohnS, and probably the Hot Marque ones as well, so we should clue up again.

Cheers

tut (N1 TUT, blue Elise)

 

T-Uk

It was my first session at Knockhill on the same day as TUT and you were on track. I remember you well (who wouldn't) and even though I was nervous about the going on track, your driving, and the way you passed me, and on occasions let me past, never once unnerved me.

I got some of the fastest passenger laps that day (and the video to prove it) and all cars handle differently and tyres make different noises, quite apart from the driver. Unless you are in the car it is very hard to comment on somebodys driving, especially if you are less experienced.

Glad you and your passenger are OK and hopefully the car will be fine soon. Amazing how much better things look the next day once it's washed and the mud removed, not that I would know anything about that sort of thing you understand.

TUT - I actually managed to keep my car pointing in the correct direction at Kames today. Didn't want to push my luck by trying another 180 there! Though a 180 and keeping it on the track while only dislodging one stone was quite good on a track, hardly wider than my car, I thought. Also came accross another make of yellow tape which matches my cars colour for my off road exploits (which I am trying to cut out)

Iain
(Lotus Elise S2)

 

actually tut
i have got a video of me following t-uk and your behind us. but that was fun

there is very few drives that i would allow to get that close to on track and t-uk is deffinitely one of them.

can't wait until i see you next track day for some more sport, hopefully i will have more power by this time though :P so i can pull away from both of you guys on the straights :P


i was behind neil scott when he had his little incident in the cool down lap so it can happen to anyone.


sam

 

Sam

Are you in any of the following photos taken from a caterham on a 10 lap video I did around Knockhill on the 17th March. It gets a bit exciting when my driver spots TUT and they start to increase the pace somewhat!!. Got a copy of video in VideoCD format if anybody is interested. You can see the amount of mobile obstacles that TUT had to contend with on track!

Knockhill 17th March
http://community.webshots.com/album/33647256NyQbLh

 

ian

i would love to see the video i am the black car infront of tut in a lot of these pics

 

Sam

No problem - I will get something sorted for you. E-mail your address and I will get it posted off to you in the next day or so.

Iain

 

Maxy

Are you coming out the closet?

 

This isn't fair! What happened someone? Did your car get hit bluenose, cause if I did I'm gutted for you as its still so new!! Has to be said though, to a degree that's the risk you take. I was happy to take the Saxo to Crial cause it's all straight line stuff but I would be reluctant to go to a track day 'just in case' Bottom line is the Saxo and Scooby (if I ever get one ) is needed first and foremost to get me to and from my work and from a-b so I can't risk stuffing it.

Edited cause I'm an idiot and didn't realise that this thread had 2 more pages that explained what happened - doh!!

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 4/21/2002 1:17:14 PM]

 

Sam

In front only because I was faster through the corners, but not enough power to pass on the straights(big grin)

tut

ps see you and John at the next one, even if you do have another 30hp.

pss Dont know if you have seen, but Willie who had the Noble, has now put it up for sale, and ordered a Dax with a turboed Hayabusa engine, 880hp/tonne.

think we may have a problem with that.

 

Tut

The video shows just how much you get held up in the corners (BG)

And you wern't far behind in the straight either, you certainly all outpaced us on the straight, so braking and corners were a bit on the limit catching you all up.

Will get a copy up to you asap.

Iain